MM1: Defiant Sid.

[Aggie]

It gives you the added benefit that you can sell the improvements in a city. Is it in the spirit of a defiant variant to take, sell improvements and abandon in the same turn? If so then I don't object to using it for an army build up as well.

 

[Arathorn]

lurker's comment:

Is it in the spirit of a defiant variant to take, sell improvements and abandon in the same turn?

I'd say No. The spirit is that all things not of your nation are beneath contempt, so using their city as a staging ground for an army or to gain cash or anything of the like is right out. A defiant nation can barely tolerate foreignors hanging around as slaves, as I see it. Using their city is ... not defiant.

But I'm just lurking....

Arathorn

 

[Aggie]

I thought so. But since my 1st language isn't English I wasn't sure about the full meaning of the word defiant...

 

[Mark1031]

OK I would like to stick to the full spirit of the variant so NO CAPTURE EVER. My but we are a snooty people. I do like the Zerk idea although I don't think it will make that much difference. We'd probably lose a fair amount of expensive Zerks and might do just as well to flood the Island with a stack of cheap pikes to get the Army going.

 

[akots]

These rules are brutal.

How's about buidling some libraries then?

 

[anarres]

preturn (1100AD): fine


AI: We lose a zerk to a Japanese longbow


Turn 1 (1110AD): Gather our nearby forces outside Darhan. We get 1 zerk and an MI from Trondheim and a few zerks from the Japanese island.


AI: We lose another zerk to a Japanese longbow...


Turn 2 (1120AD):

Damn! We jumped another level of WW!

Ouch. I just screwed up and hit enter before sorting the happiness problem. Sorry guys - we get a riot in Trondheim.

I attack Darhan and we lose 2 Elite zerks in a row, only taking 1 hpt with each. The 10/14 zerk army is next and kills both 2/3hp rifles losing only 1 hp. I raze Darhan.


AI: Zulu and Arabia sign peace treaty


Turn 3 (1130AD):

Nada, just getting some troops in to position in Japan.


AI: Japan kills a galley of ours with a caravel.

Egypt and the Mongols sign Embargo against us.


Turn 4 (1140AD):

Take the a Japanese city that appeared last turn, it only had a pike. There are 2 Jap cities left, we need to take one and then make peace to reduce our WW. The only problem with this is settlers. I've got a couple now, but we need more. I Am part-rushing settlers on the Japanese island when I can.

AI: A Japanese pike sneaks up on us and takes a stack of 6 workers adn KILLS them! It's not far from Japanese lands - I can't believe they just abandoned them.

Japan and Zulu sign peace treaty.


Turn 5 (1150AD):

I attack the Japanese pike with a vet zerk and it dies, taking only 1 hp. Another zerk finishes it off. We are now 1 tile from the Japanese capital.


AI: Persia lands a lone musket on the east island, with another ship on the horizon.


Turn 6 (1160AD):

Finally we attack Alexandrea:

8x miss
10x 1hp unit damage

They enemy is redlined! I kill the 5 Samarui with zeruks, no loss.

We raze the city and with it the Great Lighthouse....

I take the Persian musket after bombardign it.

Japan is down to one city so I decide to make peace. The risk of this is that they get cities before us in their old land. I pay 4 gold for WM, Metallurgy, Chivalry and Theology. I make an Iron Curtain across the Japanese border to stop wandering units. I will make settling the border a priority. Our lux tax drops from 30% to 0%, and we have no entertainers.

NOOOO!!!! Persia want 20 gold from us for peace, which means we need to kill another Persian unit. We really need peace because they don't have Metallurgy and we can get Education from them.

I rush a couple of galleys on our east island to take one of the two Persian galleys there next turn.


AI: Egypt lands a Cav and a settler on the Japanese island.


Turn 7 (1170AD):

I bombard the remaining Persian ship with 2 trebs and get 1 hit. I attack with the only galley in range and it redlines the enemy before sinking...

I guess we have to wait another turn before we get a shot at Education.

I surround the Egyptian unit leaving a path south. They are on the west of the Japanese island.

AI: America and Egypt sign MA aginst us! This happened after the Egyptian Cav and settler moved.

Japan and Mongols sign MPP.
Japan declare on the Zulu.

Persia land 2 units on our main island! groucho


Turn 8 (1180AD):

I take out the two Persian units and their 1hp galley. Erm. Persia still want 20 gold for peace!

Anybody know why the cost of peace did't drop when I just killed 3 of their units?


AI:

The Arabs want Currency for peace, I laughin their face. Persia move a gally next to Molde.


Turn 9 (1190AD): :zzz:


Turn 10 (1200AD): ****. Japan just build a city on the edge of their border, the turn before I was going to build a city on the hill (there is a settler under the pike on the hill, SE from the new Japanese city.

Unbeliveably Persia now want 40 gold instead of 20, and we have nothing that could have created WWP for us. I just don't understand how this can happen. They do have a galley next to Molde, but I put two units in it and it made no difference.

Sorry guys, I have failed to make peace and trade with Persia, I can't understand why the cost of peace increased...

>>> MM1 1200AD <<<

 

[akots]

Got it. So what should be done atm? Settle the Japanese continent apparently a priority. Then try to make peace with Persia and trade for Education. What of the preparations to invade America? I'll try to build more ships.

 

[anarres]

You've pretty much got it spot on.

You will see several cities dedicated to ships. We have 3 ships in a northern coastal city on the Japanese island. Several cities in Japan are around the size where settlers can be rushed, I suggest this when they hit a big enough size.

Karistad absolutely has to be moved 1 tile SW, so we can get through the middle of the Japanese island. I have rushed a settler there and put the food in to the negative.

 

[akots]

... Karistad absolutely has to be moved 1 tile SW, so we can get through the middle of the Japanese island. I have rushed a settler there and put the food in to the negative.

Yes, but it is size 2 atm. IMO, we should build as many cities as reasonably and unreasonably possible there.

 

[Aggie]

Great peace deal with Japan Unlucky situation with the Persians, but at least there are a couple of AI's not far advanced. This is crucial to get back a bit. I agree with the next steps as suggested by akots.

Did the Amricans bother us during your turns anarres?

 

[anarres]

Please move Karistad this turn - if you choose not to you have to wait 7 turns before it grows to size 3 to pop a settler, then you wait another 20 turns for it to get to size 3 again. At least if you move it this turn it can get a +3 food tile...

I was thinking that we could take the Mongol cities and get more techs from them with peace. They are a very easy target and will likely crumble easily from a sea zerk invasion.

 

[Aggie]

And the added benefit of attacking the Mongols and crumbling them is that it is close to America. I am all for going after Mongolia now to rob techs and land. However: berzerks vs rifles is no simple matter, but surely not hopeless.

 

[akots]

Have not seen your posts. But everything is more or less ready for the Mongol invasion. We now have caravels and are building banks. I was playing late at night and was in a builder mode. Also, going after Mongols would allow Zulu to expand and they are the only civ with railroads so far. Back to log.

Teleported, doing preturn check. It all looks good except Karistad. It is set to starve but settler has been already rushed there and it will grow in 7 turns. Will build regular pike atm and then another settler can be rushed and city abandoned. I'll try to settle near the coast leaving middle of the continent unfilled. AIs usually do not settle inside the settled area.

Svolvaer founded. Japan is up Education and MT. We have 3 armies on this continent. Two of them have 4 units loaded and are stuck here until transports One zerk army fortunately has only 3 units in it and can be loaded on a frigate. We have only 8 galleys which is absolutely not enough for our army to be transported. Units moving out of Japanese territory. We have many slaves. I decide to irrigate a tile around Birka. This would enable us to work mined mountains and tundra forest. Part-rushed Courthouse in Oslo. The city is losing 11gpt and 4 shields which would be cut in half after the Courthouse finishes. Rushed 3 more settlers. Valdso, Farsund and Risor can be allowed to grow. They should be very productive soon. Just noticed that Mongol land is a barren waste. Somebody pillaged it or they did not have workers from the start?
IBT. Here comes the all-mighty America. Six frigates and 2 galleons sail around.

[1] 1210AD. Killed wounded Persian galley. Yep, peace is acceptable. We can take almost Education and Printing Press for Metallurgy. Just add 13gpt. Japan does not have PP. They are up MT and something else after Education apparently. Hence, PP can be used to trade. Xerxes turns polite after the deal. Japan is up Banking, Astronomy, Music Theory and MT. They also have Navigation. Persia is up only with Music Theory. Zulu are in the Industrial Age. Peace with Mongols is also acceptable. But this would mean happiness problem. We apparently need both Astronomy and Banking. What is the priority, hard to tell. Both are overpriced and stealing would be cheaper. There will be enough cash for the safe steal in a couple of turns.
IBT. American ships turned around and sailed away to Japanese waters. Odense which is now Arab, is being attacked and apparently will soon fall.

[2] 1220AD. We built Embassy in Persepolis. They have 10 muskets, 4 Immortals, 4 horses, 2 knights, 1 settler, 7 LB. And 3 pikes there. Indeed Xerxes hammers the Arabs.
IBT. Egypt declared war on Persia.

[3] 1230AD. Each new city adds 5gpt to our budget. We have enough cash to try careful steal from Japan (1392g). Straight peace with Mongols is also on the table. OK, steal from Japan successful and we take Astronomy. As expected, Japan also has Physics and Navigation. Corruption on Sid hurts. Also, since we build a few cities close to the capital, corruption greatly increased in for example, Alesund. The town makes 18 trade but only 3 go to our treasury. Some galleys upgraded.

[4] 1240AD. All quiet.

[5] 1250AD. Some optimization in the core but this is really of little importance.
IBT. Mongol or Egyptian fleet sails south from Lille. Hope they are going for Persia.

[6] 1255AD. Moving zerk armies south just in case. Persia has Banking. Trade it for Astronomy plus some change like 16gpt. Core cities switched to Banks. Time builds are horrendous, we would have to part-rush these Banks.

[7] 1260AD. Zulu have railroads. America has pollution. Does not smell good. Rushed a temple in Rizor.
IBT. Mongol navy sells back.
[7-8] 1265-1270AD. All quiet. Straight peace with Arabs acceptable.
IBT. Persia and Japan sign peace. Zulu and Egypt also sign peace. A Privateer sails near Elveruln????

[9] 1275AD. All quiet again. Do not know if this is the right thing to do. We should be killing Japan and invading Mongols.
IBT. Zulu and America sign peace. American fleet sails in.

[10] 1280AD. All ships in the first wave bombarded to red. Did not check the cities and did not go to F4 screen. Most of units including all armies are just fortified and can be moved in anticipation of some nasty things these Americans are trying to unload.

In about 9-10 turns we would have a few Banks online. There is also still place for about 8 or 9 or even 10 more cities. And peace with Japan expires soon, may be we should just kill them and forget about them. Washington is at 8790 cp and America at 41478. That is a lot of culture they have. There is 5 turns of peace left with Japan. Our budget is OK, we are running at 212gpt, no specialists or clowns, 100gpt unit support. IMHO, six cities close to the capital on the Japanese continent should be allowed to grow and improvements there rushed as needed. The areas of these six cities should not be settled since this would increase rank corruption there dramatically.

We are doing good. But is this enough?

 

[Aggie]

Very healthy progress when I read the turnlog! Sure, we are far behind, but getting close to the IA with all important techs as Banking and Astronomy. Without having the possibility to check the save I think Mongols are next and then America. 20 turns ago Mnogls were weak in military. How is that now?

We should check how many turns we have befoe the americans get the culture win.

 

[anarres]

I'm really sad you decided to make a reg pike in Karistad.

I think we need to abandon one of the 3 cities to the NW of Trondheim. There are 3 cities all 2 tiles from each other, and abandoning the city with walls on the edge of the inland Japanese lake seems the best of the 3 to drop. I was going to do a dotmap last night but it was 1.30am when I finished my turns.

Can someone do a dotmap for Japan please? I am out tongiht so I can't do one until tomorrow.

I think if we settle the Jap island and take out the Mongols we are in good shape, although our time is slowly running out...

 

[Aggie]

I agree with a dotmap, but sadly I probably won't have the time to make one

 

[Aggie]

At the current speed America will get 100K in 106 turns and 20K in Washington in about the same time. So there is no urgency to kill them now, but we obviously like to be there before tanks.

 

[Mark1031]

Sounds like we are doing well (For Sid that is). Will look at it tonight but wait for some discussion.

 

[Aggie]

Looking at the save now...

We are stronger than the Mongols In fact, only the Persians (backward) and the Americans (advanced) are stronger. America hasn't started ToE, but does have US. They must be close to infantry?

I think we are doing quite good. As soon as we are able to ship 4 units (galleons with Magnetism) we can send armies to America. Musket armies -but even cavalry armies or pike armies- should be able to survive. And they should be able to survive even more after we add the 4th unit to it. Needless to say what armies with berzerks and cannons at their side can do. Although I still have my doubts about an isolated civ (probably I'm wrong though), but it's the only way with America imho.

But first we can cripple the Mongols and get some cheap techs from them...

 

[Mark1031]

What do people think of Jumping the palace to the new Island. It is certainly much better land but I'm not sure we would have time to build up before either the balance tips irreversibly to us or against us. If we did do something like that what would be the corruption ramifications and how could we place cities to limit that?