[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[Kael]

Kael do you know Europa Universalis? Where you had some complex System of Alliances. We could do soemthing like this allowing an Offensive Alliance.

We could code it up that AI_s would only ally with guys that are roughly the same power as they are (as they would fear to be dragged into a conflict by an stronger partner and see no need to ally with weaker ones (what is the gain)). For considering if they declare war each member of the Alliance would than use his power plus half of the power of his allies.

Of course the most powerfull ones would not ally as they do not want to share .

I like that little and big civs can ally if they have reason too. I dont mind a big order civ helping out a weaker order civ and stuff like that. I also want players to be able to cozy up to top ranked ai civs to help survive (until they can betray them and take their place!).

So Im okay with the powerful civs strategy (complacency, continue to grow and take out weaker players that annoy you and have something you want). But I would like an improvement on how weak Ai civs play.

Ideally this would be a pact option to attack another civ. Both civs declare war at once and the ai is more likely to do it because it would consider the total power of itself and the other civ rather than just its own.

At a mimimum we can run a script every so often in single player games that checks all the relative powers, rankings and attitudes and pushes ai war declarations if the criteria are met.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Kael do you know Europa Universalis? Where you had some complex System of Alliances. We could do soemthing like this allowing an Offensive Alliance.

We could code it up that AI_s would only ally with guys that are roughly the same power as they are (as they would fear to be dragged into a conflict by an stronger partner and see no need to ally with weaker ones (what is the gain)). For considering if they declare war each member of the Alliance would than use his power plus half of the power of his allies.

Of course the most powerfull ones would not ally as they do not want to share .

Chalid,

Even if you ask this question to Kael, i give you mine.

I know Europa Universalis I and II on PCs, and on "paper" classical wargame.

I think that AI civs would best ally with:
1) the same or nearly the same outlook (good, neutral, evil) as there own.
2) the same or roughly the same power as they are.
I would also like that stranges alliances between a good and an evil power would be really forbidden. No possibility at all.
Your idea of Offensive alliance is really good. Many countries were allied only to destroy an opponent. (Austria+Prussia+Russia against Poland at the end of the 18th century for exemple)

The Frog

 

[MrUnderhill]

Actually, I like that civs that oppose each other philosophically can form alliances against a common enemy. Gives you a sort of "enemy of my enemy" feel, but only if the guy you're teaming up against is REALLY bad. I noticed that the Doviello in my game were surprisingly pacifist (as were all the civs), though in the 'pedia it says they're supposed to be ruthless city-raiders. Maybe these things shouldn't be handled by a fixed trait. Instead, you could have a system like in KOTOR where each civ has a variable from 100 to -100, determining whether they're good, evil, or neutral.

Wielding dark magic, summoning demons, attacking good guys, and founding the Ashen Veil or Octopus Overlords will push you towards the dark end of the spectrum, while using healing magic, building anti-evil units, attacking evil civs, and founding the Order or the Runes will push you to the light end. I could definitely see a "force-o-meter" right under your tech bar showing you where your civ is on the scale.

 

[chocmushroom]

Barbarian leader.

I was playing with the Barb leader trait, and without attacking any barbs, I was suddenly a target from all the barbs around my settlements.
Is this because I got a religion, but i'm sure that didn't happen on the 1st game I played.
So, what are all the causes of barbs becoming hostile?

 

[Kael]

Barbarian leader.

I was playing with the Barb leader trait, and without attacking any barbs, I was suddenly a target from all the barbs around my settlements.
Is this because I got a religion, but i'm sure that didn't happen on the 1st game I played.
So, what are all the causes of barbs becoming hostile?

The barbarians are untrustworthy. The barbarian trait only allows you to start at peace with them, it doesn't promise that you will stay at peace with them.

The actual mechanic for this is if your score is more than 150% the 2nd ranked player score the barbarians turn on you. Basically if you have the game won you are going to have to fight the barbarians.

Loki warned me that I will need to put a popup on that, but I forgot to.

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it before, but i ran into an exploit with the earthquake spell.

I signed defensive pacts with anyone who would, then sent my High preast next to my enemys territory.
When I cast earthquake it destroyed one of his improvements and he immediatly declaired war on me caused all of those defensive pacts to be activated.
With 4 on 1 the war only lasted like 5 turns.

This worked on my best friends as well as enemys.

 

[Kael]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it before, but i ran into an exploit with the earthquake spell.

I signed defensive pacts with anyone who would, then sent my High preast next to my enemys territory.
When I cast earthquake it destroyed one of his improvements and he immediatly declaired war on me caused all of those defensive pacts to be activated.
With 4 on 1 the war only lasted like 5 turns.

This worked on my best friends as well as enemys.

Yeah, the recommendation has been to reverse the spells that cause war so that the caster of the spell is the one who declares rather than the victim. I will make that change in 0.13 unless any design team member objects.

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

If you could it might also be nice to have an "are you sure you want to declare war?" mesage before letting you cast such spells.

 

[Chalid]

that actually a very good idea. You are asked when attacking otherwise as well so that should not be an exception.

 

[DREWid]

hey really looking forward to friday!

still been playing multiplayer hotseat over here and finding very few 'problems' that dont seem to have been taken in hand.

however have got 2 issues that we have found to be a little to 'powerful' and thought you might want to look at them as possible balance issues.

the werewolf, god this guy is awsome! (apart from the soles of his feet being blue!) but the 100% infection rate is to high... with careful use of spells, wars are fought using entirley the convrted units of an opposing civ, wars have been won purley with baron and 2 ritualist. Also the smaller guys have almost no value due to the rapid replace rate, perhapes if you lowered this down to a 33% it would re-address this balance... also it would be more 'in-game' belivable that the attack of a ravonus wereolf as a rule doesnt leave enough body parts to become another!

or perhapes scale it so that the younger and more out-of-control animalistic younger wolves have less chance of infection so ravinous have 20%, blooded 40%, elder 50% and the baron 60%... as they gain control there instincts to repopulate there race take over from the rend/tear/eat/chase-cats thoughts

2) similar to above but not quite as much of an issue... slavery 1 in 5 rather than 1 in 4 ... or remove the build improvement trate... a war straight after gaining slavery and lobbing all slaves into wonder building gives a boost which is just a tad to much

anyhow... theres another 2 pennies worth for you... please feel free to shoot them down

 

[Kael]

hey really looking forward to friday!

still been playing multiplayer hotseat over here and finding very few 'problems' that dont seem to have been taken in hand.

however have got 2 issues that we have found to be a little to 'powerful' and thought you might want to look at them as possible balance issues.

the werewolf, god this guy is awsome! (apart from the soles of his feet being blue!) but the 100% infection rate is to high... with careful use of spells, wars are fought using entirley the convrted units of an opposing civ, wars have been won purley with baron and 2 ritualist. Also the smaller guys have almost no value due to the rapid replace rate, perhapes if you lowered this down to a 33% it would re-address this balance... also it would be more 'in-game' belivable that the attack of a ravonus wereolf as a rule doesnt leave enough body parts to become another!

or perhapes scale it so that the younger and more out-of-control animalistic younger wolves have less chance of infection so ravinous have 20%, blooded 40%, elder 50% and the baron 60%... as they gain control there instincts to repopulate there race take over from the rend/tear/eat/chase-cats thoughts

2) similar to above but not quite as much of an issue... slavery 1 in 5 rather than 1 in 4 ... or remove the build improvement trate... a war straight after gaining slavery and lobbing all slaves into wonder building gives a boost which is just a tad to much

anyhow... theres another 2 pennies worth for you... please feel free to shoot them down

All of those odds can be modifed with the FfH editor. Look for WEREWOLF_BASE_CHANCE and SLAVERY_CHANCE. If you dont have excel you can change those odds by modifing the same values in your 'Fall from Heaven 2/Assets/xml/GlobalDefinesAlt.xml' file.

 

[teoleo]

where i can download the latest version?

 

[Kael]

where i can download the latest version?

Its linked in the first post in this thread.

 

[thealien_83]

Just a thought, but isn't the Summon Kraken spell kind of weak compared to other level 3 spells of the Divine sort? The Kraken is not that much stronger than a Queen of the Line ship, you can have very few, and by the time you have access to them you can most likely produce Queen of the Line ships fairly readily. Maybe something in need of a bit tweaking?

Cheers!

 

[LvCoder]

Just an observation, Meshabber of Din graphic yellow halo is pretty intense, makes it real hard to see the battlefield, Great Mod, like another person had mentioned, made civ worth playing again.

Great job can't wait to see what ya come up with next.....

 

[TheJopa]

Summon kraken is weak now, but it has cool graphic I would rather give him some special ability (invisibility?) than increase his base strenght

 

[jselsmark]

FfH2 0.13 has passed testing and is scheduled for release on Friday, June 23rd.

Yeah, christmas comes early this year!

by the way... I've had some treants in my game that hav'nt been unsommoned for well... over 100 turns at least... they should be unsummoned right?

 

[Love]

Cant wait to the next patch!

 

[lost_civantares]

Are you going to out something like what the Civ IV Total Realism mod does, where it puts a shortcut on the desktop that starts the FfH mod with out going through the hassle of changing it manually, yet still allows me to play the HOF mod automatically if I don't use the shortcut? It would make my mod-torn civ life much easier.

 

[Kael]

Are you going to out something like what the Civ IV Total Realism mod does, where it puts a shortcut on the desktop that starts the FfH mod with out going through the hassle of changing it manually, yet still allows me to play the HOF mod automatically if I don't use the shortcut? It would make my mod-torn civ life much easier.

There is a shortcut in the Fall From Heaven folder that will start the mod automatically. It can be dragged anywhere you would like but Im hesitant to start dropping files anywhere except in the mod directory (and to much of a noob to know how to ask if they want it or not).