MOD Idea: American Civil War

[gregdoubleu]

thanks, also since shiggs was talking about weapon advancement maybe near the end of the war the union should get calvary with repeaters and to show this maybe give them a first strike chance to show the extra firepower.

also i think u should make a distinction between each sides ironclads because the confederate ironclads looked like the ones in the game now; big, heavily armored not very mobile and broadside cannons but the union ironclads were smaller, lightly armored, more manuverable and had a roating turret so maybe you could decrease the union ironclad's strength but give it extra movement and maybe first strike, and one of the withdrawl promotions.

I really like this mod and would like to help in any way i can my uncle works at gettysburg so if you need any referance info or pics let me know

 

[Shiggs713]

Thanks for all the ideas. All of them sound good and would be great to implement them. I dont know if my python and sdk skills are enough to do it alone though, I may need some help.

I'm not exactly a civil war buff, but I am interested in it, but I still am torn of which civics to use so here is a list of possible ones, if you know what sounds best feel free to help, I researched much, but still have a few holes maybe? I just list all possible considerations, this list will get reduced for game. I wont even get into what they will do yet but it should be somewhat obvious from the names. I could use some advise with this also;

Government:
Despotism
Hereditary Rule
Plantocracy
Representation
Libertarianism
Universal Suffrage
Aristocracy
States Rights (?)

Legal:
Tribal Sovereignty
Nationhood
Voluntary
Civil Law
Common Law
Religious Law
Bureaucracy
Free Speech

Labor:
Tribalism
Slavery
Industrialized
Emancipation
Caste
Serfdom
Wage Labor

Economy:
Centralization
Decentralization
Merchantilism
Free Market
Barter System

Religion (or Politics?):
Military ordinariates
Abolitionism
Theocracy
Organized Religion
Free Religion

(not sure about this?)
Native
Yankee
Dixie
Latino
European

 

[G. B. McClellan]

Yeah when the 'Repeater Rifle' tech is researched U.S Cavalry should gain a first strike advancement. I am getting the feeling that researching tech will increase unit abilities rather than allow you new units, as not that many brand new units were introduced during the war.

Good call on the Ironclads by the way, maybe Union and Confederate should also have differing stats?

 

[gregdoubleu]

i don't know how this would be done whether by promotion or something else, well anyway when you get nearer to the end of the war and union units keep on getting better weapons maybe when a confederate unit defeats a union unit that has advanced weaponry (like repeaters,breechloaders, rifled barrels) the confederate unit could get the same advantageous the union unit had like it is using the captured weaponry which could help give the south a chance in the late war

 

[G. B. McClellan]

Good idea, allow them to have a chance later on.

However if the South can get 'Foreign Intervention' they should be given many resources that will aid them and make things more even.

As for Civics what we really want is choice for players that suits history and how governments changed over the war (clampdown on civil liberties, move from states rights to a centralised system) without moving into pure fantasy (King of the United States, Confederacy of Communist American States).

 

[gregdoubleu]

also i was thinking a militia unit that's defending the city it was trained in and maybe the surrounding tiles should recieve some kind of bonus since the men would fight harder for their homes

the civics you suggested shiggs i have one question under labor you have both emancapation,Industrialized, and Wage Labor which i don't quite understand how this would work because the north was Industrialized had free slaves and used wage labor so if maybe you could please explain this it would be much appreciated

 

[Shiggs713]

well the civics I am not sure about. thats why I just posted some of my notes and hope someone else knows how it should be organized better than I.

Also on a side note, I was thinking of adding the camp unit for the native indians. it would function similar to that of the camp unit in the ghengis khan mod. And that stuff sounds great guys, but I really want to get the civics and tech tree straight before i go on actually creating all the units, although all the ideas are great, I eventually want to make a list to go with the civics/techs

 

[Andrew_Jay]

Thats an interesting idea, but would border states have both religions.

I meant to mention that in my first post, but I would perhaps apply an unhappiness penalty for having the non-state "religion" in a city - this will do two things:

1) further hamper the conqueror from making full use of the new city (such as a "Yankee" city under Confederate control)

2) represent the conflicts between people within border states - there was a lot of guerrilla fighting between partisans of both sides (such as cities containing both "Yankee" and "Dixie")

 

[Andrew_Jay]

RE: Civics, I wouldn't go so overboard with 6-7 options like above. Maybe two or three per category.

GOVERNMENT
- Federation
- Confederation (more decentralized [higher maintenance?])
- Dictatorship (the undemocratic option)
(Fed. for the North, Con. for the South, with something undemocratic as an option for either if the military situation gets really bad)

LABOUR
- Slavery
- Emancipation
(this category especially should have a stark choice between two, and only two, very different options)

LEGAL
- Habeas Corpus ("Good" legal system)
- Military Courts (moderate military advantage, in exchange for some rights and freedoms)
- Martial Law (the more extreme option)

ECONOMY
- Agricultural (bonuses for plantations, maybe units built with food, &c.)
- Industrial (more hammers from things like factories, perhaps)
(the idea being that the North will run Ind., the South Agr., and both will be suited to their starting terrain and cities)

"RELIGION"
- Draft (good for military, causes even greater unhappiness for non-state "religions")
- Neutrality (non-state "religions" cause a little less unhappiness, maybe a military penalty)
- Reconstruction (like Organised Religion - better improvement building, "missionaries" easier to build)

 

[Shiggs713]

Yea I wasn't planning on adding that many, just was listing possibilities I had found from research. Thanks for that more informed list, I'll probably keep it almost exactly the same, maybe just add 1 or 2 for each to have 4 or 5 options per civic. Either the same or less options than normal, although I'll make AI's favor the civics the countries should be using

 

[gregdoubleu]

shiggs could you please post a theard to where you got the skins you show (mainly the riflemen with the forage caps) or have a download thing so i could have them for personnel use

 

[G. B. McClellan]

Here are the links, the units are historically inaccurate but well done. Designed by sepamu92.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4532

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4531

I also found a U.S.S Monitor unit skin, someone was asking for the usual Civ4 Ironclad to be a 'Confederate Ironclad' and a fifferent model for the United States. Well, this one can be our 'Union Ironclad'. Should save a bit of time! Thanks to Chamaedrys for that.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4294

By the way, this 'Flavored Rifles' pack by bernie14 looks like it has a good Union Infantry model in it for us to use. It could simply be recoloured for the Confederates or the Confederates could have a skin made for them.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=5954

Again by Chamaedrys we have a balloon we could use. This could be a low production cost, non-combat unit that grants a large amount of visability to scout for army stacks.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4081

 

[gregdoubleu]

thanks, and ya that is the kind of ironclad i was talking about for the union
good job finding it mcclellan

and once again if you guys need help with anything let me know

 

[G. B. McClellan]

As for game design, I think Andrew Jay has hit the nail on the head with his choice of civics, now we only need to put specific game effects to each.

 

[Andrew_Jay]

By the way, this 'Flavored Rifles' pack by bernie14 looks like it has a good Union Infantry model in it for us to use. It could simply be recoloured for the Confederates or the Confederates could have a skin made for them.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=5954

My vote would go for this unit. The rifle (taken from the Infantry unit) used by sepamu92's troops is inaccurate.

I'll try and flesh out my civics with some (rough and arbitrary) game mechanics (happiness, hammers, commerce, maintenance, etc.)

 

[Shiggs713]

Yea sorry for the delay, I been kinda busy the last couple days. I can probably do anything related to the XML, some python and some graphics. What I need help with is game design (all the units, technology tree, map creation), and the SDK. Could maybe get by without SDK work, but it would definetly make the mod better with some SDK changes. Also I'm not great at re-skinning units. Thats why I have started with a few already made skins. Also why I plan on using as much as possible from civfanatics. Why re-invent the wheel? Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, I'm about to change to civics and do some more research on the tech tree.

 

[Andrew_Jay]

Some more substantial ideas:

GOVERNMENT
* Federation (+ , Low Maintenance)
* Confederation (+ , Medium Maintenance)
[The Confederacy was a slightly looser version of the Union . . . though this could use some work]
* Dictatorship (same as Police State, High Maintenance)

LABOUR
* Slavery (population rush, + from Plantations & Farms, Medium Maintenance)
* Emancipation (gold rush, 1 free Specialist in cities, for Slavery, Low Maintenance)
[To represent "intelligentsia" who would support the Abolitionist movement]

LEGAL
* Habeas Corpus (+ in all cities, -25% production, No Maintenance)
[Peace-time court system]
* Military Courts (1 in all cities, Low Maintenance)
[Increased powers to deal with insurrections and sedition - this represents a measures to create a more capable war-effort, in exchange for anger]
* Martial Law (same as Hereditary Rule, Medium Maintenance)
[I don't know if this should make even more people angry in exchange for some advantage, or give you measures to deal with anger . . .]

ECONOMY
* Agricultural (units built with food, + from Windmills and Waterwheels [ from Farms, or is that too much?], Low Maintenance)
[To give an under-developed South a chance at fielding a military, and represent its strengths]
* Industrial (+ from Forge and Workshop, Medium Maintenance)
[To represent the advantages of the industrialised North, of course, the South could adopt this as well if it built the relevant infrastructure]

"RELIGION"
* Draft (1 per non-state "Religion", can Draft units, +2XP, Medium Maintenance)
[A full-scale war effort. Sympathisers of the other side will cause some trouble]
* Neutrality (-25% production, No Maintenance)
[Pre-war stance . . . or perhaps an anti-war position, such as that of many Democrats in the North]
* Reconstruction (same as Organised Religion, High Maintenance)
[Post-war (or as the war is winding-down) policy to rebuild the defeated side, Missionaries spread the victorious ideology (be it "Yankee" or "Dixie") - to be used when one side is in a more comfortable military position, and not come on the tech-tree till later (or perhaps after an event)]

Of course, Beyond the Sword will have Espionage, which could be used to really effect in the Legal Civics.

 

[Shiggs713]

Thank you very much Andrew. I am writing up the civics right now. I'll post when I'm done.

 

[Iuvavus]

I hope I'm not to late, when I post some suggestions on techs:

Naval Tactics => Ironclads => Submarines
Rifeling => Repeating Rifles => Machine Guns
Abolitionism (could be the tech that brings Emancipation)
Industralism
Chemistry =>Explosives
Scientific Method
Telegraphy
Railroads
Conscription
Cavalry Tactics
Guerrilia Warfare
Espionage
Immigration
Steam Energy
Steel
Medicine

Unit Suggestion:
Zouaves

And some suggestions for wonders:

World Wonders:

Hunley's Submarines (enables the building of submarines)
Andersonville Prison Camp (places Jail in every city)
Pony Express (Mounted Units built in this city start with Commando, Mobility, Sentry)
Fort Wagner (Stronger City Defense)
Harpers Ferry Arsenal (Military Units recieve extra 1 Exp. in every city)
Capitol (no Idea yet, but it was finished during the war)

National Wonders:

Clara Barton's Field-Hospital (same effects as Red Cross in unmoded Civ4)

 

[Shiggs713]

Ok I think I have just about what I want, but may tweak some after testing or if you guys think something just looks wrong.

Government
Despotism - low upkeep, allows camp unit (like in Genghis Khan mod)
Federation - low upkeep, +1 trade routes, +1 from town
Confederation - medium upkeep, +50% great general inside borders, +1 trade routes, can spend gold to finish production.
Dictatorship - high upkeep, +30% military production, -50% war weariness, + 5 free units (goes up with more population)

Legal
Barbarism - low upkeep, -25% in all cities
Habeas Corpus - no upkeep, -25% in all cities, +2 from courthouse
Military Courts - low upkeep, +2 experience in all cities, 3 in 5 largest cities
Martial Law - medium upkeep, +2 for each military in city, +25% war weariness

Labor
Tribalism - no upkeep
Slavery - medium upkeep, +1 & +2 from plantation, can sacrifice population
Caste System same as normal except low upkeep
Emancipation same as normal except now can finish production with gold, and +1 free specialist

Economy
Decentralization - no upkeep
Free market - low upkeep, +3 trade routes, -20% & +20% in all cities
Industrial - medium upkeep, +25% in all cities, +1 from town and +2 from workshop
Agricultural - medium upkeep, +1 health in all cities, military units produced with , +1 trade routes in all cities, +1 from farm, +1 from windmill & watermill

"Religion"
Paganism - low upkeep
Draft - medium upkeep, can draft 5 units per turn, +25% war weariness, units produce 10% faster and +2 experience with state religion, no non state religion spread
Neutrality - no upkeep, +100% and +2 with state religion, +75% war weariness, +1 trade routes, +1 specialist , -25% , and finally +1 commerce per military unit (this may be too much)
Reconstruction - high upkeep - can build missionary (or whatever) w/o monastery -75% maintenance cost to palace, +1 health in all cities, +1 trade routes, cities with state religion build buildings 40% faster, and get 50% points

__________________
ah sweet, thanks Iuvavus. I found a few also but some are a little far away (1840's or 1880's) but i'll list them anyhow for possible alternative endings. some of these were pre-civil war but their tech was still being used and produced, some are a little futuristic for the time, but maybe possible.

toll roads
joint stock company
canal
steamboats
metallurgy==>improved metallurgy
physics==.advanced physics
coal mining
repeating pistol
railroad
telegraph
telephone
internal combustion engine
westward expansion (idea, or manifest destiny)
transcontinental railroad
advanced machine tools