[MOD] More Naval AI

Hey, I am really enjoying your modmod. After playing several starts and a very intense game with my brother, I would like to give you my two cents.

Early game: Lairs are deadly. In most games, at least one civ is annihilated by an Ogre running around, Liches or other funny things. But you want to work on that anyway, so I will skip that.
Sometimes I see very expansionist behaviour. In my last game, the Hippus(Rhoanna) had 7 cities before turn 130. I opened worldbuilder and saw nothing, what could explain such a rapid expansion... In Rhoanna's case, it maybe wasn't that terrible, as she constructs a strong economy, but other civs really cripple themselves to the point, that they practically lost the game. Maybe something worth a look.
Financial leaders are much too strong. I would recommend to change the benefits, because those civs tend to be OP. Especially Hannah and Lanun in general can crush several civs without problems, just because they are much more advanced, while having not really financial trouble.
Loki and Heron Throne are built very, very early... Most times I don't have any chance to begin constructing the wonder, because I don't even have a coastal city!
But in general, the AI is much smarter and poses a real threat... it goes so far, that I restart when I start near Doviello or CoE because they usually crush me :lol:. But this is a good thing, I feel that the AI plays now at the same level.
The religions are still very awkward. I don't know, but RoK seems to dominate in every game, I played. Although some civs found other religions and convert, it generates a big, happy friendship among civs, which is a bit boring. I would either remove the free discilpe unit upon researching the required tech or drastically decrease diplo bonuses from religions.
On a side note, the worker AI seems buggy, as they wake when an enemy is near them (good), even when they are fortified in the city, guarded by several military units (bad).

Mid-Game:
From turn 200 on (Normal game speed), there usually are several wars going, but yet, this led to several observations:
-world wonders are being neglected ( I could construct some wonders, although the required tech has been researched 200 turns ago!)
-No cities are built
-Almost no peace treaties are signed. ( Hannah wages war against Decius since turn 100... I am already in turn 460... no breaks)
- this again crippled Hyborem in my game
A general note on Hybi: I always see him sitting in Icy locations although many better places are available... Would it be possible to add preferences for spawning?
Hell terrain: Flood Plains are not transformed to Obsidian Plains. I fixed that for my own modmodmod (based on yours ;) ). If you want, I can post the fix here.
Grigori often construct Mercurian Gate. I would think that Cassiel, would really abhor that idea... so maybe tweak that flavourwise?
CoE and Empyrean never play a role in my games.... Nobody converts to those religions, leaving them quite useless... But I think that this correlates with the early coversion to other religions.

End Game:
Challenging. When I started to construct Tower of Mastery, Thessa declared war on me. She used the Overcouncil to dogpile me.... It would have been critical if I hadn't an Immortal Eurabatres ;). There is not much to say here. The Elves bloom their whole empire, Dangerous enemies, so nothing to complain here.

Some note on the Kuriotates:
-Their world spells sucks. That is harsh but true. It has no really use, as a hardcoded culture boost of only 300 points is nothing. I would tie it somehow to population, specialists or so, to make it at least a little bit more useful.

I had much more things in mind, but well... I forgot them :).

Thanks again for this great project! It brought FfH back to live on my pc :D.
 
The Kuri worldspell is cool very early in the game to pop the borders, or to culture flipp something, i dont know how well the AI handles it though.
I still say the most useless worldspell is the Kazzad one.^^
 
sorry been caught up in RL for a little bit.

I did manage to finish the game that described in 524. At the end there were two "alliances" left in the world. The Kuriotates, Clan (permanent alliance), Mecurians with Bannor (a vassal) vs me with Hippus and Shaeim (both vassals stuck on islands). the game had become a little bit of a slog, (late game on a huge map at marathon). I'd reduced the clan to a couple of island cities and was invading the Kuriotate main continent. I took one of their cities from the sea and established myself (The Nexus is my favourite wonder). I took another Kuriotate city, and then advanced on the Mercurian capital. The good was that they attacked my stack, immobilised me for a couple of turns and then retook the kuirotate city I'd just taken. They then went on and tried to take the other city that I'd first taken, which didn't work out in their favour as I reinforced from multiple cities (yah Nexus!) but bonus points for trying. I took losses but not as bad as theirs and while my SOD was immobile, mostly, two of the vampire lords in it were not. Highly promoted Vampire lord 1, Basium 0. I guess it’s hard to evaluate, but it seems that the best bet would have been to either consolidate the newly captured city, or to attack my SoD, of which a good chunk was immobile.

I retook that city, then took the Mecurian capital and prepared myself for an assault on the Kuriotate capital. They'd summoned the Mercurians originally so the Mercurian capital was close to theirs. At this point I screwed up badly and failed to scout. :)

I moved my SoD within a couple of squares of their capital (all units had movement of at least 2 as I give the mobility promotion to units with move of one, and then haste). Fireballs reduced the defence of their capital to zero and then I saw the massive number of troops that were present there, including that bloody gold dragon. I was expecting the dragon so I had a well promoted Beastmaster, however, given the number of defenders in the previous cities, I was somewhat surprised at the number of defenders that were present. Their were enough of them that my stack mostly died with a good proportion reappearing in my capital courtesy of my other favourite wonder (I do miss the time when Sphener could get the resurrect promo, command 4 with combat promotions is awesome and extremely painful to loose).

I've never played as allied with another team, although I do take vassals. With a vassal I can see the city and one square around that. Does that work for permanent alliances? If it doesn't then they should have taken the opportunity to nail me when my stack was immobilised. It was close enough that the centaurs could have reached me at least and if backed up with the Mercurians then that would have inconvenienced me. If their single move units had been promoted to mobility, then they could all have reached me as well. As it was they inconvenienced me somewhat, but I had a solid foot hold established. If they'd engaged me earlier, then that could have been contested. If they'd engaged my troops while a good chunk of them were immobilised then the game might have gone a little differently (I was fairly close to a domination victory so maybe not).

How do the alliances work I've never joined one myself (apart from vassals). Do they see all of the allies territory? Or do they only see a square around the cities? I don't know how this works, but presumably they should be able to see everything in their allies territory, and should respond to enemies in their allies territory. I don't have a save game to go back to at this point, so I can't offer that as I started a new game, which I'll need to try with the new beta (only a few hundred turns in on marathon).

It just seems like they had a massive reserve force that was kept in reserve for too long, when they could have been put into action as soon as I landed on the continent, or when my force got into difficulties. Whereas they kept them back and while they did use them effectively, it was too late to make a difference.

A portion of it was through my use of the nexus. Maybe restrict the number of troops that can arrive at a city through the nexus? Either a fixed limit, or a number equal to the size of the city? I have no idea if that’s possible, or if it would have a substantial effect on gameplay. I’ve only once seen an AI build it and that was a long time ago, so long a go that it was a previous version of FFH. Interestingly I noticed that Vampires can cast haste after arriving through a portal and get one movement.

This recent game was fun though. I hadn’t encountered stoneskin trolls previously nor had I seen Eubrates (unless I’d built him).

I saw some someone previously mention the value of mobility promotions. I don’t know how well the AI values them, but generally they’re among the first that I get for units with a move of one, once they become available. I don’t very often build catapults anymore because they have move one, whereas a mage can get the mobility promotion and fireball (and haste, and/or maelstrom…).
 
Ah, sorry I kind of missed this mod until now. Is this just for FFH2 vanilla or also compatible with Wildmana 8.
The AI issues were one the major reasons that I switched from FFH2 to Wildmana.
Is this AI better, equal or worse than the Wildmana 8 AI?
 
As far as i know it will only work with vanilla FFH, as for the AI, it is most likely the best AI you will see in anything FFH related.
 
Just in case Tholal thought I was exagerating when I said that the Ai sucks at evaluating defense just check this save state out:
 
v1.8beta3

When I switched from Aristocracy to Republic my Royal Guards abandoned me. If I understand the changelog correctly shouldn't they have stayed with my civ?
 
I suppose the correction in 1.8b3 is for Royal Guards that are replaced by Knights when you get Warhorses and thus unbuildable even if you are running Aristocracy. As far as I know Royal Guards are still tied to that civic.

Anyway, this patch should pretty much be official. With the Wild Mana AI merge I found FFH to lose quite a bit of fun (useless SODs and Kilmorph beelines everywhere). Now the AI actually understands how to do something else than pumping warriors and I actually HAVE to struggle to get religious techs before it. Even in my usual Settler Diff / No Settlers / Barbarian World roleplay games the AI provides some challenge.
 
I suppose the correction in 1.8b3 is for Royal Guards that are replaced by Knights when you get Warhorses and thus unbuildable even if you are running Aristocracy. As far as I know Royal Guards are still tied to that civic.

This is correct. Royal Guards still require Aristocracy.
 
1.8 beta4 (should be compatible with previous saves from 1.8 beta2 and beta3).

Main Changes:
  • Cardith Lorda now likes Mounted units
  • Elohim AI players will now have any Unique locations revealed at game start (just as a human player would)
  • Fixed a bug that was causing the Barbarians to over defend Goblin Forts
  • Sprawling AIs should be a little less aggressive about expansion once they reach their city limit
  • AI should be better about bringing more troops on a naval assault
  • AI should be a little less warlike
  • AI should be better at defending its cities
  • AI more likely to use Great People to discover techs that let them found Religions or receive new Great People
  • AI should be smarter about exploring lairs near its own cities
  • Warrens now work again for Settlers and Workers
  • Fixed an OOS issue in Pitboss games (bug find and fix thanks to Dis)
  • Various tweaks to AI production, tech and unit code


Known Issues:
  • Some buildings show up as pink squares in the city mouseover
  • Grigori heroes dont get experience until they choose an initial upgrade
 
Nice work again. You're dedicated.

I wanted to ask, though, could you tell me how to make the warrens not double settlers and workers? Thanks a lot.
 
Some buildings show up as pink squares in the city mouseover

I thought that was my graphics card.

Grigori heroes dont get experience until they choose an initial upgrade

I could have sworn I was wiped out (Deity) by Grigori Adventurers who were highly promoted Warriors using the last patch.

As always, thanks for the new patch.
 
I wanted to ask, though, could you tell me how to make the warrens not double settlers and workers? Thanks a lot.

CvEventManager.py. Find this section:

Code:
#if unit.getUnitCombatType() != UnitCombatTypes.NO_UNITCOMBAT:
if unit.isAlive():

And move the # to in front of the second line instead of the first. Like so:

Code:
if unit.getUnitCombatType() != UnitCombatTypes.NO_UNITCOMBAT:
#if unit.isAlive():



I thought that was my graphics card.

Nope. Something to do with filenames for the art.

I could have sworn I was wiped out (Deity) by Grigori Adventurers who were highly promoted Warriors using the last patch.

Adventurers still get their free XP after upgrading, and since the AI gets a big discount on upgrade costs, they probably aren't affected too much by this bug.
 
Thanks, it is now working like I wanted. I don't want Jonas to win all my games. That is not a balanced tweak in my opinion.


Btw, I made a little test game on noble. It is not true that the AI is less warlike. It doesn't seem that they know anything else really.
The plotting message actually turns out to be meaningless sometimes which shouldn't. In my game, Alexis had as worst enemy Cardith, and Cardith her. They both were near me. What happened? You guessed it. They both declared on me and still continued to be worst enemies at peace. That's just silly. All of it. Psycho AIs.

I noticed that the AI goes for BW much faster, though.
 
v1.8beta4

My Hunter/Hawk was unable to explore the Pyre of the Seraphic. The dragon icon was ghosted out.
The Pyre is located behind a mountain 2 tiles from Acheron's city if that means anything.
 
v1.8beta4

My Hunter/Hawk was unable to explore the Pyre of the Seraphic. The dragon icon was ghosted out.
The Pyre is located behind a mountain 2 tiles from Acheron's city if that means anything.

Oh yes. I forgot about that. I made a change where the Unique lairs cannot be explored if they are in someone else's land. This was so players could use the Pyre and the Well for their mana, without having to worry about other players coming along and opening up the lair.

It sounds like in this case the land belongs to the Barbarians. Not sure if I should make an exception there or not, as the Barbs will hook up the mana node if given a chance.
 
Tholal, great job and dedication, very much appreciated.
quick question concerning alliances, is this intentional or a bug: a triple alliance
(sabathiel, arthurus and basium all in one big happy Troika....)I always thought the AI was limited to dual alliances....Beyond that, I have to say this AI is quite good when fighting along the borders, got ambushed more than once...Great mod-mod! (see attached save)

edit: forgot to mention it is the latest patch 1.8 beta4
 

Attachments

Yeah, they actually did, I am guessing Arturus started to build the gate, and they then made the alliance, not sure but it seems basium poped the turn after...Still, I am glad they all decided to go pay Varn a visit and not my camp....
 
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