[MOD] More Naval AI

[Losman]

Tried it out and works. Thanks again for the instructions. Just been fighting barbs for the most part. They seem to collect outside of your city in cover if your city is well defended rather than just attacking but will attack if you are weak. Makes them much more of a pain in the ass. The AI players are going to war left and right pretty early but they haven't screwed with me yet. There does seem to be a lot of early wars without regard to alignment but overall I am liking it and looking forward to playing through a few games to see all the changes.

 

[Folket]

There is a crashbug in multiplayer when using taunt. A theory is that one person is in a city view when an other person cast taunt to get an stack to attack a stack with units from both players.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think you should be able to get revolution events that give you the choice to restore a city to another player while you are at war with that player, unless the event is changed so that the option of handing over said city also grants peace with said player.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Tholal & Red Key, please set sons of the inferno to max 4 in the new version so they don't get infinite archmages casting infinite fire elementals. Acheron's city is completely broken and has been since this silly addition in one of the latest FFH patches.

 

[Tasunke]

hmm.

Perhaps Sons of Inferno should have a team-cap of 2 (or 4), while Disciples of Inferno should have a team cap of 6 (or 8)

 

[Tasunke]

There is a crashbug in multiplayer when using taunt. A theory is that one person is in a city view when an other person cast taunt to get an stack to attack a stack with units from both players.

Yea, it seems like if the other person has ANY UI active (even just a worker or scout SELECTED) the crash MAY occur.

(do not know if its in base FFH as well)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Tholal, can you add back the power graph for those who play with Advanced tactics disabled? currently if you dont use that gameoption you'll never ever be able to look up that vital info.

I mean it's fine that you need an embassy when playing with advanced tactics, but for people who don't use it removing a core functionality from the game seems wrong :/

looking forward to the next update!


@Tas: well mages have unlimited numbers while archmages are max 4 so I'd go with that for consistency. are disciples of Acheron also problematic enough to warrant a national limit? in my experience it's only the sons of the inferno that need to be slammed hard in the face with a nerf stick but ymmv.

 

[rebl]

I have tried various Ffh modmods and I think this is by far the one with the best AI and balance.
I often have trouble playing well in prince if i'm unlucky / have a bad starting position.
The AI usually seem to use world spells appropriately, assemble balanced marching armies/SOD's and seems generally competent.

Content and flavour wise I think base Ffh has enough, and adding or changing game mechanics, such in in other modmods, allways in one way or another upset the civilization's balance, and either overpower or nerf some factions/units etc too much, and leaving the AI unable to use the new features properly.

Having played quite a lot of games to at least mid-late, I have however noticed some issues with how the AI handles some features:

The Balseraph never seem to upgrade their freaks to suitable units (light and mobility promotions goes scout units etc.) even thogh the cost of upgrading these to 2nd tier units (archers/swordsmen/ hunters) is only 5 gold per unit, leaving them with only a huge army of freaks.
Also, getting Loki early and disrupting early rival settlements is a core early game tactic that the AI don't seem to utilize well.

I don't know how the AI works on assesing the chance of defeating an enemy army/ stack and the cost of doing so. It too often throw masses of mediocre attackers against city walls, or dug in archers on a hill, without siege equipment or other means, to cause colatteral damage prior.

Hmm.. can't think of much more now (that's how well the mod works

Yeah, powerhouse civs seem to declare wars left and right before even finishing off/vassal civs they are in a campaign against.

Also an attacking civ staying with his army in my territory plundering (because i have adequate defences) while i sneak in a small elite force into his territory taking or razing his cities, not reacting fast enough to it.

Not an AI issue but i never liked the Idea that Basium will follow Ashen Veil /Overlords civs. Imo the Mercurian Gate building should be restricted to neutral/good and or Order/ Empyrean civs.

I think Tsunami and Ring of Flames are too powerful as they are. Maybe nerf them to max 20% damage to a stack?

Fianlly; I would nerf the Calabim Governour's Manor building, it's to powerful imho.


Unfortunately i don't have any programming skills so this is the only way i can help.

Looking foward to the next release!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the issue with teaching Loki how to use disrupt is, you also have to teach the AI how to deal with him. this basically boils down to: DoW Balseraphs if Loki is about to steal a city.

 

[Folket]

Any chance you can update the first post to say which version to use?

i.e. A installation description. Which versions of FFH it is compatible with.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

version O

 

[Mknn]

I had written

I get BugOptions: cannot locate settings folder. This makes some sense, because after installing it I had to begin using the /ALTROOT setting to point cIV to a separate drive for save files.

Any ideas? Essentially, I have Steam installed to a non-standard location (D:\yadda\yadda\) and I have CIV using the /ALTROOT to point to a specific directory, also on D:\, for it's file location.

Really want to try this mod, am fairly certain it's just an issue of put this folder here, put that folder there.

I just don't know where here and there may be ...

 

[rebl]

Wouldn't it be cool to organize the Ffh Multiplayer game here?
All factions, huge map epic speed.
Mby like a roleplaying scenario with a game master controlling events etc.

 

[magzhi]

i am ok with that, but how the game master would work?

 

[rebl]

Well technically he could open the save game file and add whatever. Storms, a new Ice age, higher water level, add special units, minor factions, start rebellions,wars , modify leader traits or stuff.
And then make a story of it at post it on the forum.

I'm not sure how hard it is to do. Havent thought much about it, just thought it would be a cool idea.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

The AI seems to have problems to use great persons.
I played a magister mod game this weekend with a friend on prince level.
When I conquered a city from an AI opponent, I got 3 (!!!) great engineers.
He also seems to use them as workers sometimes.

Not sure if the AI was waiting to fast-build a wonder or technology, but hoarding 3 great engineers in the city seems to be a bit over the top. If the AI doesn't know how to use great persons, they could at least attach them to a city. I hope that's possible.

 

[scutarii]

The AI seems to have problems to use great persons.
I played a magister mod game this weekend with a friend on prince level.
When I conquered a city from an AI opponent, I got 3 (!!!) great engineers.
He also seems to use them as workers sometimes.

Not sure if the AI was waiting to fast-build a wonder or technology, but hoarding 3 great engineers in the city seems to be a bit over the top. If the AI doesn't know how to use great persons, they could at least attach them to a city. I hope that's possible.

I have to specify: AI uses others as GP in the city bout not great engnineers...weird...in captured cities I've seen merchants, sages, bards but not engineers.

 

[Tholal]

There is a crashbug in multiplayer when using taunt. A theory is that one person is in a city view when an other person cast taunt to get an stack to attack a stack with units from both players.

Yea, it seems like if the other person has ANY UI active (even just a worker or scout SELECTED) the crash MAY occur.

Thanks for the reports.

I don't think you should be able to get revolution events that give you the choice to restore a city to another player while you are at war with that player, unless the event is changed so that the option of handing over said city also grants peace with said player.

I'm not sure what event that is. If you can give me a screenshot of it or quote a bit of text I can try and track it down.

Tholal & Red Key, please set sons of the inferno to max 4 in the new version so they don't get infinite archmages casting infinite fire elementals. Acheron's city is completely broken and has been since this silly addition in one of the latest FFH patches.

I have them set to require level 7 before they can upgrade to Sons, so they are already pretty limited. I'll consider putting in a hard limit.

Tholal, can you add back the power graph for those who play with Advanced tactics disabled? currently if you dont use that gameoption you'll never ever be able to look up that vital info.

I mean it's fine that you need an embassy when playing with advanced tactics, but for people who don't use it removing a core functionality from the game seems wrong :/

I didn't do anything to the power graph. Its still there. I'm guessing that you're referring to the power ratio display in the scoreboard? If so, I disabled it because it's information that a player normally wouldn't have access to.

I have tried various Ffh modmods and I think this is by far the one with the best AI and balance.

...

Having played quite a lot of games to at least mid-late, I have however noticed some issues with how the AI handles some features:

The Balseraph never seem to upgrade their freaks to suitable units (light and mobility promotions goes scout units etc.) even thogh the cost of upgrading these to 2nd tier units (archers/swordsmen/ hunters) is only 5 gold per unit, leaving them with only a huge army of freaks.
Also, getting Loki early and disrupting early rival settlements is a core early game tactic that the AI don't seem to utilize well.

I don't know how the AI works on assesing the chance of defeating an enemy army/ stack and the cost of doing so. It too often throw masses of mediocre attackers against city walls, or dug in archers on a hill, without siege equipment or other means, to cause colatteral damage prior.

Thanks for the feedback! Teaching the AI to understand the value of units with ranged collateral is one of the top things on my to-do list, though I'm not sure how difficult it will turn out to be.

the issue with teaching Loki how to use disrupt is, you also have to teach the AI how to deal with him. this basically boils down to: DoW Balseraphs if Loki is about to steal a city.

AI Loki will use disrupt. However, he will only go for cities that he has seen.

Any chance you can update the first post to say which version to use?

i.e. A installation description. Which versions of FFH it is compatible with.

Version O. You can use earlier versions as well as long as there are no art changes (I think that's as far back as D), but there's really no point in doing so.

Any ideas? Essentially, I have Steam installed to a non-standard location (D:\yadda\yadda\) and I have CIV using the /ALTROOT to point to a specific directory, also on D:\, for it's file location.

I dont really know. You can find a number of .ini files under My Documents-> My Games -> BTS-> FFH - More Naval AI

The AI seems to have problems to use great persons.
I played a magister mod game this weekend with a friend on prince level.
When I conquered a city from an AI opponent, I got 3 (!!!) great engineers.
He also seems to use them as workers sometimes.

I have to specify: AI uses others as GP in the city bout not great engnineers...weird...in captured cities I've seen merchants, sages, bards but not engineers.

This is an issue with Magister's Mod. He has it set so that Great Engineers can build improvements and has their default AI set to AI_WORKER

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

RE: Loki - I've tested both your mod and WM/MoM, in the former he uses Entertain while in the latter he uses Disrupt ( I actually prefer the former because the latter would devastate the victim AI by stealing most of their newly found cities )


RE: powergraph - I thought it wasn't working, I'll check again maybe I was mistaken. still, the number of the scoreboard is the exact same info so it's definitely something the player has access to already.

Since we seem to disagree on this point, could I ask you to provide an alternate cvmaininterface.xml file ( that's the one IIRC ) with power ratios enabled in the scoreboard? I've spent hours trying to do that and failed


the only other thing needed for this project to reach perfection is the "avoid growth" buttons in the city screen MoM has. Tholal or Red Key please please please take a look at Master of Mana source code and add them to More Naval AI as well!

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

This is an issue with Magister's Mod. He has it set so that Great Engineers can build improvements and has their default AI set to AI_WORKER

Ah sorry, I wasn't aware of that. I will report it in the Magister thread then.