MOD PREVIEW: Karhgath's Earth

[Karhgath]

Yeah, I'll probably use Kal-El 180x180 map, the clean version, it will be the easiest choice I think.

As for govts... I didn't included Civ3 govt, so communism is already there. I also forgot theocracy, which is very important.

As for the rest, it was more or less just a brainstorming. Colonialism would represent the colonial days of the british, probably not a good name.

Absolute Monarchy is great, and I forgot Fundamentalism... we need to take the most interesting ones, and also make them balanced together, and fit a precise purpose.

Would you have a better alternative for Imperialism? I agree that it's far from being the best term. In TAM we use 'Empire' but that isn't much better IMHO.

As for Babylonians... I know, I was a bit harsh =) Still, most of the army and infrastructure came from the Assyrian, before Nabopolassar led the revolt. I'm not saying that the Assyrian had a great empire... they just lasted very long and invented everything from irrigation, to iron working to medical science to geometry, siege weapons(rams), universities, paved roads, plumbing, aqueducts, etc. As an historycal stand point, they were MUCH more important than Babylon for me.

As for Sumeria, yes, they were the very first 'civilization' with the first city, and everything... but still, why not assyrians? And I'm sorry to disapoint you, but Sumeria isn't getting a chariot unit... can't say more than that.

Yeah, maybe lumping them together as Mesopotamien would be a good idea. I'll see about that... It's just that I like Assyria so much as a civ... oh well =)

 

[Nahuixtelotzin]

Originally posted by Mithadan
Thanks for the info! This certainly clears things up for me, and I do believe I'll use your civilopedia entry, if that's alright.

Go ahead, no prob.

 

[Karhgath]

I'm adding new techs in each era to add a better progression of techs. I only changed the Ancient era as of yet, more to follow.

NR = Not Required for Era Advance.

Ancient Era:
Tools - Very important advanced required for masonry and bronze working.
Domestication - Enabled horses and cattles on the map. Required for Chariot.
Chariot - Enabled Chariot instead of Wheel. Req. Wheel and Domestication.
Sailing - Comes after Map Making, allows Galleys.
Standing Military - Comes with Iron Working and Horseback Riding and allows Swordman.
City State(NR) - Allows City State Govt. Comes after Code of Laws.
Imperialism(NR) - Allows Empire govt. Comes after Standing Military and Construction.


I changed the following techs:
Map Making only requires Writing.
Iron Working requires Bronze Working and Masonry.
Horseback requires Warrior Code and Chariot.
Monarchy requires only Polytheism.
Philosophy requires Literature.
Masonry now requires Tools and Pottery.
Bronze working now requires Tools and Warrior Code.


I added a new unit:
Axeman - 3/1/1, cost 3, comes with Iron Working, doesn't requires Iron.

Because of this, I increased the cost of nearly all units from Swordman to Infantry by 1.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Won't that Axeman threaten to make Swordsmen rather pointless? Not having done any playtesting, I'd tend to expect that a 2.2.1 unit would be better balance-wise.

And now you've made me curious wrt Sumeria - I thought the deplorable Enkidu Warrior was official?

 

[Karhgath]

I just made some test(I'm balancing between the 3 north-american nations) and you're right, a 2/2 unit is much better.

I should release a preview soon, I just need to finish putting all the resources(Only N-A is completly done, and I'm playtesting it) and checking if I can use the units/maps for the mod.

I made a buttload of changes today while playtesting... Here are some:

Resources:
Added Cotton(0/1/1), Tobacco(0/0/2), Coffee(0/0/2), Tropical Fruit(1/0/2) and Sugar Cane(0/0/3).

AI:
Changed all barbarian civs to cripple them(no wonders, no workers, etc.)

Rules:
Every civs starts with a Warrior instead of a Worker.

HP:
Veteran and Elite +1

Worker Jobs:
Nearly doubled all jobs.

Terrain:
Forest now gives 1 shield only.
Cattle gives only +1 food.


I also changed a lot of small things that I don't remember.

 

[Angelscotboi]

Some Govt Corrects...
Tribal Council/Chiefdom
City States Assembly
Ancient Republic
Ancient Monarchy/Absolute Monarchy
Feudal Monarchy
Constitutional Monarchy
Ancient Democracy
Federal Republic/Federation
Facism
Totalitarianism/Dictatorship
Communism
Democracy
Corporate State
Empire/Imperialism
Theocracy
Knightly Order
Confederation

 

[aaglo]

Koreans do have their own warship here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53355

 

[The Last Conformist]

Barbarian civs?

 

[Karhgath]

Ah thanks Aaglo, I forgot about your unit! That's great. I guess I can use it in my mod? And while we're at it, can I use you Sdkfz 251 as mobile infantry too?

What should it replace? Caravel or Galleas?

And, by 'barbarian' civs, I mean : Iroquois, Aztecs, Mongols, Celts, Scandinavians, Zulu.

Did any of these built sailling ships? I'm guessing no, but I'm not sure. I just saw iroquois expanding to the carribean... so I'll prevent them to build Ships and the rest of the barbs too.

 

[The Last Conformist]

You're not seriously asking whether the Scandinavians built sailing ships, are you? Viking Age Scandinavian sailing ships pretty much defined the state of the art in those days ...

And I think it's harsh to label the Aztecs as barbarians. They were heirs to two millennia of urbanized civilization.

 

[Karhgath]

Yeah, duh, I know that, that was implied, I was talking about the rest =) I heard mongols built ships later on... Iroquois had canoe, but no sailling ships... what about Aztecs, Incas and such?

And when I say barbarians, it's probably not the right term, more like 'backward civs', I'm trying to slow them down a bit, I don't want to have the Aztecs and Iroquois waiting with tanks when you discover the americas =) I know Mesoamericans civs had great cities, and a very strong culture, however, I'm trying to make it relative to the european civs. By preventing them from building workers, they can't have tons of resources and such around(no roads), and have less trade and thus research techs slower than other civs. It's probably not very realistic, but right now it seems to work quite well. For example, US gets pounded hard early on, but as soon as they get firearms, the scenario changes and they start getting a big advantage.

I think I'll also add Incas as a new civ... I know it's going to be added with Conquest, but it's in a while(october) so for now i'll add them myself, to fill the gap in south america.

 

[Angelscotboi]

The Iroquois were hardly "backwards" dont know your history?

The Iroquois Confederation of 6 Nations is widely recognised to be the worlds first true democracy -please not use of the word TRUE- which is hardly the work of a "barbarian" people...


And the Celts werent barbarians either...the Romans only called them Barbarians cos they didnt understand their culture...
Celtic cultural inflences can still be felt today...ie the Wiccan religion...and just a bit of trivia the Celts used soap LONG before ANY other civilzation. I dont think barbarians would use soap.

 

[Karhgath]

Backward doesn't mean a civ can't be great. If a civ is in Civ3, it's because it gave something back to the world, whether it's religion, wonders, philosophy, etc. Damn, forget that I said the word 'barbarian', ok? Everyone seems to take the term way too literally, and think I don't like a civ because I said 'barbarian'. Heck, I'm in awe with the depth of the Mesoamerican culture and the incas, etc. and I'm planning a trip to south america to visit the Andes and Machu Picchu so... Still, I'd called them 'barbarians' because they got wipeout by the Spanish(around 300 vs 40,000!!!!) due to a primitive way of life. Would 'primitive' be better than 'barbarian'? Notice the ''.

What I wanted is a way to make some specific civ a bit slower in the techs, so that they do not jump ahead of the tech tree, namely: iroquois, aztecs, incas, mongols, scandinavia, celts and zulu. Is that better?

BTW, I just finished putting the resources on the map, I just need to balance it (I think I was a bit generous... you should see india!!! I think they have access to like 9-10 diff. luxury!!)

The first version should be released around wednesday next week, but don't hold your breath.

BTW, wasn't there a utility that counts resources on a map? That works with .bix files from PTW?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Karhgath, the Mongols were hardly backwards after c1210AD, following that date they pretty much surpassed the rest of the world in all fields. IMO, instead of penalising them on the tech tree, penalise their expansion. If they expand slower as in real life until, say, the Middle Ages, it is a lot less likely that they will jump ahead of the rest of the world but will still be able to survive an assault somewhat as is historically.

 

[aaglo]

Karthagh,

I think you can use whatever you find in these forums (because that's the whole idea).

 

[Karhgath]

aaglo: I know but still, just being nice and all, I want to give proper credits and be sure about it =)

mongoloid: yeah, well, that's what I'm trying to do. Also, one thing I discovered, civs that can't build workers and wonders usually build a MUCH bigger army and are more agressive... exactly what I wanted to do for the mongols, as an example. The problem in civ is that Size = Power = Tech, so it's pretty hard to balance.

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Mongols didn't so much build ships as subjugate Chinese and Koreans do to it for them. (That's for the invasions of Japan and Java. I can't think of any episode where any of the western bits used ships in any number, but if they did, they were probably built by Russians, Persians or some such.)

This is, btw, beginning to sound more like a kind of scenario than a Mod in the usual sense. It sounds like the handicapped civs will be quite ... challenging to play as.

 

[Karhgath]

Not really, since only the AI is affected. Well, I'm trrying to stay away from scenarios, but I could do scenarios later on. The goal is kind of being able to do nearly all kind of scenarios without too much changes to the game itself.

BTW, the first version might be delayed, my HD crashed, and it may take a while for me to setup thing again, but I'll try to work on another computer for the time being.

 

[The Last Conformist]

So you're just editting the "build never" list? I, for some reason, was assuming you simply removed the handicapped civs from the Worker's "Available to" list.

Good luck on retrieving that HD.

 

[Karhgath]

Yeah, as I don't want to intentionally cripple a player, it's not a scenario per see so.

BTW, I'm trying to find a good name for the mod, instead of Karhgath's Earth, which is a bit... well... I don't like having my name there, haha. Maybe something like Conquer the Earth. What do you think?

Right now I'm thinking of adding the Sioux and the Mayans... is there any good leaderheads for them, or mods that uses them I could based them on?

I'd like to add other civs, that aren't euro-based since it's a bit crowded, any ideas? Maybe something in asia, or africa, or some other empty places? Maybe 2 chinese/south-east asian civs? My vast history knowledge stops at the end of the Ancient era, the rest is more about interests than real knowledge so...

BTW, anyone wants to help out? I'm trying to get space at cdgroups for a team. I'm looking for content creator, research/pedia people, icons/minor graphic works, map makers/editors, testers, etc.

Right now what I'm looking for, for the first release of the mod, is the following:
I'm looking for new tech ideas from middle age to modern era.
Should I add 'near-future' tech at the end of the modern era?
I also need to fill gaps in the UU units, I'm still missing a couple.