[MODCOM] Sniper Mod - Teaser Pic

[TheLopez]

Well, the way I have been developing the sniper mod, the game will recognize any unit having their combattype set to UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER will be treated as a sniper.

 

[Jeckel]

Wow, adding it as a new unitcombat will make it easy to mix and match with other mods, good idea. I'm still stoked to try out the merc mod, but some virus corrupted my civ4 exe and I had to uninstall, reinstall, and download the patch, which has taken almost 12 hours on my dialup for the 44 mb file.. just 40 minutes to go..

As for the unit model, I like IVZanIV's idea to put a spotter figure with the sniper guy. Kinda like the scout has a wolf. :>

"One shot. Two kills." -Sniper

 

[Officer Reene]

TheLopez

It looks pretty cool and I like the idea

some suggestions:

The snipers' secondary characteristic (primary being specified targeted kill) is stealth...

Maybe they should have the "invisibility" trait like the spy...

however I can see how this may effect gameplay and unbalance the game...

I dont know exactly how this can be remedied, but one idea is to allow a "counter-sniper" promotion to military units that give a +**% bonus of spotting snipers... everytime a promotion is used...

(later "counter-sniper" promotions could include evasion (added +**% defense bonus vs. sniper attacks and actually counter-snipers bonuses when attacking snipers (like +**% to offense vs. snipers)

and/or make the promotion of snipers with a +**% bonus in promotions of stealth/camoflauge (kinda like how subs can be mostly invisible to other ships)


dont know how hard it is to make/modify codes for that (maybe Zuul can help on that)

these promotions would lessen the advantage of snipers vs. all other military units... (in effect balancing game play)

but I would lessen the strength of the sniper (since if a sniper is spotted by military unit - like in real life an infantry squad (5-6 men) spot a sniper (1-2) could kill the sniper easily once the sniper is located (also call arty on the sniper) since the sniper is powerful... unless discovered therefore limited the usefulness (and stacking of snipers to pick off other military units)

I dont think it is a good idea for the sniper be allowed to kill great specialists in a city since (as mentioned before) the amount of time to make GPs are long and expensive (per se... time invested)

however if you still want to keep this option I suggest only allowing a limited # of snipers that can be produced (like the spy unit)

this brings the option of making a national wonder for snipers - like a National Sniper School/Academy (if you want to go in that direction)

the other way to balance GP "assassination" option is to:

make a military building in cities that has a **% chance to spot snipers that approach cities and can call arty/airstrike to destroy snipers or reveal their position (+**% chance to spot/kill snipers...etc)

or add to the promotions of "counter-sniper" of one promotion that gives units who fortify in city bonuses of "spot and reduce sniper's effectiveness/accuracy/percentage of getting a confirmed kill

or use both

on another note:

I believe in colonial times... many units designated as snipers/sharpshooters designated themselves differently from regular infantry/military units by wearing green uniforms... some of the uniforms were for military dress and others were for practicality for stealth and camoflauge... (especially in the USA... circa revolutionary war and civil war)

so you might want to use green uniforms for the earlier sniper pics


well that's my 2 cents and my opinions on how to enhance the sniper unit better...

it may not be perfect, but that's some of my ideas...

BTW I bow to your superior knowledge of making mods... I cant even come close... (thats why I rely on guys like you to make CIV4 more enjoyable (and more militaristic)


I also have some ideas for the specific basic promotions for snipers

(like trigger pull/steadiness/windage/breathing/stealth/camoflauge bonus that give +**% for snipering...etc)

if you want to hear it...

but it looks like your gonna make a cool unit

Hail to the King baby!

 

[TheLopez]

TheLopez

It looks pretty cool and I like the idea

Thanks, I can't take all the credit, Aranor and korvgubben are the ones who inspired this mod

some suggestions:

The snipers' secondary characteristic (primary being specified targeted kill) is stealth...

Maybe they should have the "invisibility" trait like the spy...

however I can see how this may effect gameplay and unbalance the game...

Yep, already done.

I dont know exactly how this can be remedied, but one idea is to allow a "counter-sniper" promotion to military units that give a +**% bonus of spotting snipers... everytime a promotion is used...

(later "counter-sniper" promotions could include evasion (added +**% defense bonus vs. sniper attacks and actually counter-snipers bonuses when attacking snipers (like +**% to offense vs. snipers)

and/or make the promotion of snipers with a +**% bonus in promotions of stealth/camoflauge (kinda like how subs can be mostly invisible to other ships)


dont know how hard it is to make/modify codes for that (maybe Zuul can help on that)

these promotions would lessen the advantage of snipers vs. all other military units... (in effect balancing game play)

but I would lessen the strength of the sniper (since if a sniper is spotted by military unit - like in real life an infantry squad (5-6 men) spot a sniper (1-2) could kill the sniper easily once the sniper is located (also call arty on the sniper) since the sniper is powerful... unless discovered therefore limited the usefulness (and stacking of snipers to pick off other military units)

Unfortunately the only way to get this to work is to create units that can "see" snipers. I am currently seeking a programatic way to do it though.

I dont think it is a good idea for the sniper be allowed to kill great specialists in a city since (as mentioned before) the amount of time to make GPs are long and expensive (per se... time invested)

I disagree, these would be one of the targets that change the balance in the game. For instance send in a sniper to take out an enemies military producing cities. I have made it an option that is configurable through an INI file.

however if you still want to keep this option I suggest only allowing a limited # of snipers that can be produced (like the spy unit)

this brings the option of making a national wonder for snipers - like a National Sniper School/Academy (if you want to go in that direction)

Already though about this and yes to product modern snipers you do have to have a sniper school in a city. It isn't a national wonder but currently you have to have a certain number of barracks to do so. If I ever merge this mod with the military bases mod then it will be army bases instead of just barracks.

the other way to balance GP "assassination" option is to:

make a military building in cities that has a **% chance to spot snipers that approach cities and can call arty/airstrike to destroy snipers or reveal their position (+**% chance to spot/kill snipers...etc)

or add to the promotions of "counter-sniper" of one promotion that gives units who fortify in city bonuses of "spot and reduce sniper's effectiveness/accuracy/percentage of getting a confirmed kill

or use both

Actually, I am going to have walls and castles reduce the chance that snipers kill their target. Also I am toying with the idea of making the population as a whole affect the chances of a sniper. The bigger the population the harder it is for the sniper to find their target.

on another note:

I believe in colonial times... many units designated as snipers/sharpshooters designated themselves differently from regular infantry/military units by wearing green uniforms... some of the uniforms were for military dress and others were for practicality for stealth and camoflauge... (especially in the USA... circa revolutionary war and civil war)

so you might want to use green uniforms for the earlier sniper pics

Well right now I am not focusing so much on the actual units. I am focusing on the sniper functionality. Basically the way I have developed the mod any unit having the UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER combat type can use the sniper features. In my mod I have two snipers: sniper and modern sniper. The sniper is the early revolutionary war/civil war era sniper and the modern sniper is the modern sniper. This way someone like Kael could fold in my changes into his mod really easily and create some type of fantasy sniper like a ranger elf for instance.

well that's my 2 cents and my opinions on how to enhance the sniper unit better...

it may not be perfect, but that's some of my ideas...

BTW I bow to your superior knowledge of making mods... I cant even come close... (thats why I rely on guys like you to make CIV4 more enjoyable (and more militaristic)

Well thanks for taking the time and writing them down. Without people like you we wouldn't have some of the ideas we have.

I also have some ideas for the specific basic promotions for snipers

(like trigger pull/steadiness/windage/breathing/stealth/camoflauge bonus that give +**% for snipering...etc)

if you want to hear it...

Well I have already fleshed out the promotions for the sniper but I would like to hear your descriptions too.

but it looks like your gonna make a cool unit

Hail to the King baby!

Thanks, I'm trying

Again thanks for taking the time and providing your feedback

 

[vingrjoe]

This new unit ability you are developing looks very promising.

I see two abilities in one with this. The first is of course, is a true ranged attack, which can be developed to give warships and land arty the bombard capability against other units. The second is being able to select units for a sub attack or attack for any modern weapons platform that uses guided munitions.

When you complete this project, please consider releasing this as a stand alone option, that a player could add to their game. Also possibly, releasing a mod with the two abilities seperate...(scrpit, python, whatever it's form) I only do models, so forgive my programming ignorance.

Last of all, don't let anyone's opinion stop you from your work !

 

[TheLopez]

This new unit ability you are developing looks very promising.

I see two abilities in one with this. The first is of course, is a true ranged attack, which can be developed to give warships and land arty the bombard capability against other units. The second is being able to select units for a sub attack or attack for any modern weapons platform that uses guided munitions.

When you complete this project, please consider releasing this as a stand alone option, that a player could add to their game. Also possibly, releasing a mod with the two abilities seperate...(scrpit, python, whatever it's form) I only do models, so forgive my programming ignorance.

I am assuming that you are talking about having me release a separate mod that includes the range highlighting, etc. for any unit and not just the ability to select and fire on units farther than a plot away, right?

Last of all, don't let anyone's opinion stop you from your work !

I am assuming that you are refering to Belizan's comments right? Well, I respect and value his opinions that posts in my threads. He has provided very valuable insights in this mod and in some of my previous mods.

Personally, I like when people provide their opinions, it gives me the opportunity to open up a dialog and see what they are thinking. I can then take those opinions and make improvements to my designs, implementation, etc.

Anyways, thanks for your vote of confidence, as for the current status of the sniper mod, well, I have made some great progress. The sniper obfuscation code is now functional, meaning that snipers can hide and can be discovered by units moving near them. I also plan to add the code making it so there is a slight chance that snipers are discovered when they attack a target. Also, when a snipers are discovered and they move they are re-obfuscated.

Yesterday I made a great leap in the progress of the mod, I finished the major part of the AI code for the sniper units. The AI now knows how to use snipers. Also, when a sniper can have a promotion the AI now has a better chance of picking one of the sniper promotions.

I am planning to release the mod to my testers hopefully by the end of this week.

 

[Vishaing]

I had an idea for how a sniper could affect a unit of troops, based off of the assassins in the Total War series. Basically my idea is that a sniper could 'attack' a unit, and maybe do .1% damage to them, but also pass on a "sniped commanger" promotion, like the diseased promotion from Kael's FfH, that lowers combat strnegth by 20% or some such value, to show how the unit no longer has a leader and is disorganized. This promotion would then be automatically removed if the unit spends a turn in a city with a baracks, to represent how the unit gets a new leader, making this only really useful in the field during a large scale war, as I feel it should be.

This would of course be in addition to the other abilities you have already given snipers.

This also gives me the idea of making an assassin unit with the same capabilities, but no range for the early game. by having no range they would have to be in the city or on the unit to attack, and that would of couorse make them less powerful.

Perhaps a sniper could carry a chance of starting a war? Much like what happened with old Ferdinand (spelling?). Something that could make it even more interesting is, if the sniper is found it can start a war with the country that owns the sniper, but if the sniper isn't, maybe it ignites a war with whatever nation the target nation likes the least? As in they get blamed for the assassination. This could make it increadibly risky, but also increadibly lucrative if used correctly. Start a war between two nations, support one, wait until they weaken their opponent, and then sweep in for the spoils.

Perhaps you could also use this as a way of forcing anarchy on a nation, maybe even with a chance of randomly changing one of the civics to represent the leader being killed, although this would have to have an extremely low chance of happening, my suggestion would be less than 10%.

Overall I like it, as I have always wanted a sniper/assassin type unit to back up the spys.

 

[OzzyKP]

I had an idea for how a sniper could affect a unit of troops, based off of the assassins in the Total War series. Basically my idea is that a sniper could 'attack' a unit, and maybe do .1% damage to them, but also pass on a "sniped commanger" promotion, like the diseased promotion from Kael's FfH, that lowers combat strnegth by 20% or some such value, to show how the unit no longer has a leader and is disorganized. This promotion would then be automatically removed if the unit spends a turn in a city with a baracks, to represent how the unit gets a new leader, making this only really useful in the field during a large scale war, as I feel it should be.

I agree.

That sounds like the best way of implementing them.

 

[Civmansam]

Absolutely Fantastic right now Lopez

I have 2 things to say

1. I think you sould put all teaser picks on the first post so everyone can see them immedietly

2. I am definetly using this in the Star Wars Mod

3. Why don't you make an assasin unit that like an medieval day sniper?

 

[TheLopez]

Absolutely Fantastic right now Lopez

I have 2 things to say

I see three things below so I'll address two of them

1. I think you sould put all teaser picks on the first post so everyone can see them immedietly

Good point, I'll do that after I finish making dinner for my pregnant wife.

2. I am definetly using this in the Star Wars Mod

Thanks. BTW, do you know which version of the Merc mod you used in the Star Wars mod? Shqype was having some issues with it.

3. Why don't you make an assasin unit that like an medieval day sniper?

Because the two units I am providing are just reference units, the sniper ability is tied to the UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER combat type, not to the actual units themselves. So if you wanted to you could very easily have 100 different types of sniper units in a mod and they would all be treated the same. That is the beauty of how I am implementing this mod.

 

[Civmansam]

I see three things below so I'll address two of them

Good point, I'll do that after I finish making dinner for my pregnant wife.

Thanks. BTW, do you know which version of the Merc mod you used in the Star Wars mod? Shqype was having some issues with it.


Because the two units I am providing are just reference units, the sniper ability is tied to the UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER combat type, not to the actual units themselves. So if you wanted to you could very easily have 100 different types of sniper units in a mod and they would all be treated the same. That is the beauty of how I am implementing this mod.

That's really cool. So I can make different units and they will be treated as a sniper? What about melee units? Will they be able to pick and choose their target but only attack from melee range

I used version 0.52 of your merc mod. I'll ask Shqype about it.

And i wanted to say 3 things but i guess i typed 2. Typo.

 

[TheLopez]

That's really cool. So I can make different units and they will be treated as a sniper? What about melee units? Will they be able to pick and choose their target but only attack from melee range

I used version 0.52 of your merc mod. I'll ask Shqype about it.

And i wanted to say 3 things but i guess i typed 2. Typo.

You will need to make sure that their combat type is set to UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER. Here is an example:

		<UnitInfo>
			<Class>UNITCLASS_ARCHER</Class>
			<Type>UNIT_ARCHER</Type>
			<UniqueNames/>
			<Special>NONE</Special>
			<Capture>NONE</Capture>
			<Combat>[B]UNITCOMBAT_SNIPER[/B]</Combat>
			<Domain>DOMAIN_LAND</Domain>
			...
			...
			...
		</UnitInfo>

 

[vingrjoe]

The Lopez, yes, in answer to your question regarding my request about a seperate ranging mod.

 

[TheLopez]

Ok, I'll do it when I find some time .

 

[vingrjoe]

Thank you very much.

 

[Col.D]

Couldn't the harrass opotion take off xp...?

My Grandfather fought in WWII and he used to always say when snipers were around no-one was in good moral and people were afraid to move.

The assaination of gp's would be really good, yeah, sniper could be invisable with 2 movement and be able to assainate great people, the main problem is gp's are used quick, so maybe make it able to take out great specialists?

And I think when the sniper attacks it shouldn't be able to take down an entire company, thats just unrealistic, it never happens (except once in Italy I think that happened, I'm not sure).

And maybe there could be a behind enemy lines rampage kinda thing, like the sniper will be consumed but it can do huge damage to a stack and stop it in it's tracks for 2 turns? Thats what happened alot whenever a nation knew it would die and just got desprete.

 

[TheLopez]

Couldn't the harrass opotion take off xp...?

No... but maybe it should consume the units moves.

My Grandfather fought in WWII and he used to always say when snipers were around no-one was in good moral and people were afraid to move.

Please tell your grandfather "Thank you for your service" from me.

The assaination of gp's would be really good, yeah, sniper could be invisable with 2 movement and be able to assainate great people, the main problem is gp's are used quick, so maybe make it able to take out great specialists?

I have already added that feature to the mod.

And I think when the sniper attacks it shouldn't be able to take down an entire company, thats just unrealistic, it never happens (except once in Italy I think that happened, I'm not sure).

Well right now that is a configurable option, but is disabled by default. Though, in the battle of Stalingrad I'm pretty sure it happened...

 

[Grey Fox]

Couldn't the harrass opotion take off xp...?

My Grandfather fought in WWII and he used to always say when snipers were around no-one was in good moral and people were afraid to move.

Maybe the sniper could add a "Low Morale" or "Fear" promotion to units (only non Armored units, etc, could be a setting in the Ini file or Python maybe) in its range that it is harrasing. It could do something like -25% Strenght, -1 Movement. Or it could add the "Low Morale" promotion always (which could do the -25% STR). And add a "Fear" (-1 movement) promotion with a random probability. These promotions should be removed once they are out of the Snipers range.

And I think when the sniper attacks it shouldn't be able to take down an entire company, thats just unrealistic, it never happens (except once in Italy I think that happened, I'm not sure).

I agree. Maybe the sniper could attack units like the collateral/bomber damage does BUT only to 1 unit. (I.e it can only dmg to a certain % of the unit STR).

And maybe there could be a behind enemy lines rampage kinda thing, like the sniper will be consumed but it can do huge damage to a stack and stop it in it's tracks for 2 turns? Thats what happened alot whenever a nation knew it would die and just got desprete.

Sounds like a cool option.

 

[Zuul]

Any news?

 

[TheLopez]

Yes, thank you for asking Zuul. I have finally been able to get back to work on this mod after the flurry cause by the release of the v1.61 patch. There is one last feature to finish implementing. Once it is implemented the mod will go out to testers, hopefully by the end of this week. If everything goes well with them it should hopefully be released by maybe Sunday...