Modern Unit Graphics

[Tanelorn]

The post war Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force, the Bosnian Serb air force, the post break up Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force and the modern Serbian air force.
The Mig 23 is an oddity, nine ex-Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 aircraft were send to Yugoslavia for overhaul in 1989 and 1990. A number of planes were returned to Iraq after the overhaul. But when Yugoslav wars and Desert storm started, these MiGs had to remain in Yugoslavia, as both countries were under arms trading sanctions and Yugoslavia had unpaid monetary claims. The MiG-23's were not in formal service Yugoslav Air Force (RV i PVO) but they were used by flight-test center (VOC), so they got Yugoslav markings, but kept their Iraqi camo. One plane was exhibited in front of the Aviation Museum at Nikola Tesla Airport , in Surcin , near Belgrade.

 

[Patine]

The post war Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force, the Bosnian Serb air force, the post break up Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force and the modern Serbian air force.
The Mig 23 is an oddity, several ex-Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 aircraft were send to Yugoslavia for overhaul during the late 1980's. But when Yugoslav wars and Desert storm started, these MiGs had to remain in Yugoslavia, as both countries were under arms trading sanctions. The MiG-23's were not formal in service Yugoslav Air Force (RV i PVO) but they were used by flight-test center (VOC), so they got Yugoslav markings, but kept their Iraqi camo.

Are the Non-Original Aircraft Stock heavy post-breakup Yugoslav state air forces planned as well (Slovenia, Croatia, Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, (Your Favourite Part of) Macedonia ( ), and - well, I have no idea at all if Kosovo even has it's own air force, or whose stock the post-2003 Montenegrin air force relies on?

 

[gapetit]

The post war Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force, the Bosnian Serb air force, the post break up Federal Republic of Yugoslavia air force and the modern Serbian air force.
The Mig 23 is an oddity, nine ex-Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 aircraft were send to Yugoslavia for overhaul in 1989 and 1990. A number of planes were returned to Iraq after the overhaul. But when Yugoslav wars and Desert storm started, these MiGs had to remain in Yugoslavia, as both countries were under arms trading sanctions and Yugoslavia had unpaid monetary claims. The MiG-23's were not formal in service Yugoslav Air Force (RV i PVO) but they were used by flight-test center (VOC), so they got Yugoslav markings, but kept their Iraqi camo. One plane was exhibited in front of the Aviation Museum at Nikola Tesla Airport , in Surcin , near Belgrade.

Great collection . What about a Yugoslav Mi-24?

 

[Tanelorn]

I am on vacation for the next two weeks and I didn't bring a laptop with me... digital detox and all that.

 

[gapetit]

I am on vacation for the next two weeks and I didn't bring a laptop with me... digital detox and all that.

I am not in a hurry, and it seems to me a very wise decision Tanelorn. Enjoy holidays

 

[Tanelorn]

3 grey ex Yugo fishbeds defected to the Croats in 1992, two were shot down. Most of the 40 migs smuggled into Croatia from the Ukraine in 1994 carried the first pattern, few the second. 20 were put in servce. 12 were upgraded to the Romanian Lancer standard in 2003, these remain in service in the second pattern. 12 more were bought from Ukraine in 2013 but half were found too faulty to use and five of the 12 were proven to be somehow stolen from Yemen...
Correction: the legal property of Yemen, maybe they were sent to the Ukrainians for service and were never paid for.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

the Ukraine

...We are no longer friends.

( )

 

[Patine]

...We are no longer friends.

( )

Hey, I happen to live in Alberta, where tonnes of friends, acquaintances, co-workers, clients, in-laws, former classmates, and even a past girlfriend and a separate "female friend who was a bit more than a friend in my youth," have Ukrainian heritage (and last names). And, we have the only commercial chain of mall foodcourt kiosks selling Ukrainian (which is awesome) anywhere. And Albertans of Ukrainian decent fluent in the language have served as election observers in Post-Cold War Ukraine. And, the world's first Holodomor memorial monument is on Churchill Square, in front of City Hall, here in Edmonton, and I probably walk past it at least once every day, most day.

 

[Tanelorn]

...We are no longer friends.

( )

I don't get it. You object to the use of the definite article?

 

[typhoon353]

I don't get it. You object to the use of the definite article?

The way Ukrainians explain it to me, they prefer that you refer to the country as Ukraine and not the Ukraine, as the word means "borderland" in Russian/Ukrainian and they find the addition reductive to their national identity. It implies that they are a region or sub-entity of some kind (as in the Ukrainian SSR) and not an independent country, which as you can imagine in these times is quite a politically sensitive topic.

This is an especially hard habit for us English speakers to break because that is how the Ukraine has historically been referred to by us until very recently, in the same vein as the Sudan and the Congo. In Ukraine this is apparently not an issue because the definite article does not exist in the Eastern Slavic languages.

On a semi-related note, given the focus on that part of Europe in military circles these days, has anyone taken a stab at the post-Cold War generation of IFVs? Including the US Stryker Dragoon, German Boxer and Puma, UK AJAX, French VBCI, Chinese ZBD-04. So far I think we have a BMP-3, T-15 and Kurganets by Fairline and an ASCOD from Tanelorn.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

The way Ukrainians explain it to me, they prefer that you refer to the country as Ukraine and not the Ukraine, as the word means "borderland" in Russian/Ukrainian and they find the addition reductive to their national identity. It implies that they are a region or sub-entity of some kind (as in the Ukrainian SSR) and not an independent country, which as you can imagine in these times is quite a politically sensitive topic.

Patine can probably confirm, it's right up there with Iggy calling Ukraine "Little Russia" (when we all know that's really Belarus ).

P.S.: Euromaidan in a nutshell.

 

[Tanelorn]

Well, I only just realised. I ve been teaching it like that ( it's in their grammar book) to Ukrainian students, no-one ever complained. Point taken.
Same with Czech, the definite article is mostly emphatic.

 

[Patine]

Patine can probably confirm, it's right up there with Iggy calling Ukraine "Little Russia" (when we all know that's really Belarus ).

P.S.: Euromaidan in a nutshell.

I apologize that I misunderstood you. I thought you were inexplicably slagging Ukraine as a country. Bolding the definite article in @Tanelorn's quote would have helped.

 

[Patine]

Well, I only just realised. I ve been teaching it like that ( it's in their grammar book) to Ukrainian students, no-one ever complained. Point taken.
Same with Czech, the definite article is mostly emphatic.

But the Czech Republic never lacks the definite article in English.

 

[Tanelorn]

Great collection . What about a Yugoslav Mi-24?

Found in a Serbian site, in Serbian: " Two Mi-24Vs, which were produced in 1983 and 1985, were procured for the needs of the former Special Operations Unit of the RDB of the Serbian Ministry of the Interior in 1998 from Ukraine. They were handed over to the Serbian Army in 2006, but due to poor technical condition and incomplete documentation, they were never repaired."
From the Russian Wikipedia:
4 Mi-35Ms have been ordered (by Serbia) in total as of 2019.
"In May-June 1992 were in service with Croatia, despite the embargo, there were 11 attack helicopters Mi-24D and Mi-24V. The origin of the helicopters is unknown, but it is assumed that they were purchased from Germany or from Ukraine*. The weapons were removed from the helicopters, and the 1st Squadron of Combat Helicopters was formed from them and they were used for transportation. Already in 1993, the helicopters received weapons again: machine guns YakB-12,7, NAR and ATGM "Spiral". One unarmed Mi-24D was converted into a rescue vehicle, and a winch was installed on it. Another helicopter was converted into an anti-submarine helicopter, it was able to carry four Mk.44 torpedoes on the underwing pylons. And one Mi-24 was equipped with an infrared vision system of the front hemisphere and was used as a reconnaissance. The MI-24 of the Croatian Air Force took part in the hostilities against the Serbs, during which at least one helicopter was lost."
The helicopters were withdrawn from service in 2004
Inferred from Serbian:
The light attack helicopter used by Yugoslavia was the (Anglo-) French SA 342 Gazelle. The first 21 copies were delivered to Yugoslavia by the French from 1973 to 1976. Starting in 1978 the total of Gazelles produced localy plus the imported examples was 178. 60 remain in service with Serbia, mostly the local AT Gamma version, armed with four Soviet AT3 missles.
According to Croatian wikipedia Montenegro also inherited some.
*probably Ukraine

 

[Tanelorn]

But the Czech Republic never lacks the definite article in English.

Its officialy just Czechia since 2016.

 

[gapetit]

Found in a Serbian site, in Serbian: " Two Mi-24Vs, which were produced in 1983 and 1985, were procured for the needs of the former Special Operations Unit of the RDB of the Serbian Ministry of the Interior in 1998 from Ukraine. They were handed over to the Serbian Army in 2006, but due to poor technical condition and incomplete documentation, they were never repaired."
From the Russian Wikipedia:
4 Mi-35Ms have been ordered (by Serbia) in total as of 2019.
"In May-June 1992 were in service with Croatia, despite the embargo, there were 11 attack helicopters Mi-24D and Mi-24V. The origin of the helicopters is unknown, but it is assumed that they were purchased from Germany or from Ukraine*. The weapons were removed from the helicopters, and the 1st Squadron of Combat Helicopters was formed from them and they were used for transportation. Already in 1993, the helicopters received weapons again: machine guns YakB-12,7, NAR and ATGM "Spiral". One unarmed Mi-24D was converted into a rescue vehicle, and a winch was installed on it. Another helicopter was converted into an anti-submarine helicopter, it was able to carry four Mk.44 torpedoes on the underwing pylons. And one Mi-24 was equipped with an infrared vision system of the front hemisphere and was used as a reconnaissance. The MI-24 of the Croatian Air Force took part in the hostilities against the Serbs, during which at least one helicopter was lost."
The helicopters were withdrawn from service in 2004
Inferred from Serbian:
The light attack helicopter used by Yugoslavia was the (Anglo-) French SA 342 Gazelle. The first 21 copies were delivered to Yugoslavia by the French from 1973 to 1976. Starting in 1978 the total of Gazelles produced localy plus the imported examples was 178. 60 remain in service with Serbia, mostly the local AT Gamma version, armed with four Soviet AT3 missles.
According to Croatian wikipedia Montenegro also inherited some.
*probably Ukraine

If I have understood correctly, do you think that in the Yugoslavia War scenario, the MI-24 with which Yugoslavia departs is incorrect, because until 1998 they had no available? But what happened to those of the 80s?

 

[Tanelorn]

@gapetit the aforementioned units: SFR Yugoslavian, FR Yugoslavian, Serbian Gazelle. Croatian Mi24, FR Yugoslavia, Serbia Mi24/ Mi35

If I have understood correctly, do you think that in the Yugoslavia War scenario, the MI-24 with which Yugoslavia departs is incorrect, because until 1998 they had no available? But what happened to those of the 80s?

I dont "think", I know Socialist Federal Yugoslavia never had any Mi24s, they produced their own SA 342 Gazelles. -edit- sorry if it sounds harsh, it is true.
The Soviets only sold them old junk which they improved domestically. They were buying from the French, the Swedes, even Reagan sold them Maverick missles before the civil war.
The Soviets wouldnt sell Hinds to a potential enemy.
A similar situation went on with Romania after 1968 although in theory Romania was still part of the Warsaw pact, unlike Yugoslavia. There was a "Balkan entente" between the two.

For the record, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia , was the successor state to the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, following the breakup of Yugoslavia in 1992, made up of the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro. In 2003, FR Yugoslavia was transformed to the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. In 2006, Montenegro seceded from the Union.

 

[gapetit]

@gapetit the aforementioned units: SFR Yugoslavian, FR Yugoslavian, Serbian Gazelle. Croatian Mi24, FR Yugoslavia, Serbia Mi24/ Mi35

I dont "think", I know Socialist Federal Yugoslavia never had any Mi24s, they produced their own SA 342 Gazelles. -edit- sorry if it sounds harsh, it is true.
The Soviets only sold them old junk which they improved domestically. They were buying from the French, the Swedes, even Reagan sold them Maverick missles before the civil war.
The Soviets wouldnt sell Hinds to a potential enemy.
A similar situation went on with Romania after 1968 although in theory Romania was still part of the Warsaw pact, unlike Yugoslavia. There was a "Balkan entente" between the two.

For the record, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia , was the successor state to the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, following the breakup of Yugoslavia in 1992, made up of the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Montenegro. In 2003, FR Yugoslavia was transformed to the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. In 2006, Montenegro seceded from the Union.

The "think" was for me: I think I understand ... But in translation, thinking assigned it to you. So I did not want that I think I understand, that you know what you are talking about. Yes, the Yugoslav army lost several gazelles in the 10-day war and I have seen that it had a transport Mi-8. And for what you have, it did not have a Mi-24, so you tell me until 2006. But those who had it were the Croats. I am not going to modify any scenario for it, but it is interesting how we like to include a Mi-24 even if it is not historical because it looks very good. Thanks for the explanation Tanelorn. A greeting

 

[Patine]

Did anyone ever make a Type 10 JDSF tank and/or a Type 08 PLA APC? I had sworn I had seen one or both in one of @Broken_Erika's many compilations, but I now can't find either in any of the almost 100 of the files she's uploaded. The Type 08 doesn't appear to be in @Fairline's Chinese Modern Vehicles file, either, unless it's under an "export model name," I didn't catch, which is always possible.