[MODULE] Bannor Chain of Command
- Thread starter xienwolf
- Start date
Just got my first General.
Superior Training gives all lower units +2 command limit.
It will let me assign my General as a minion to one of my champions.
A champion who's commander is the General...
Luckly it just causes a rather rapid CTD (not messages) when you then go and attack with said Champion, rather then getting stuck in an inifite loop of fractional exp.
Also, the Regimental Discipline is not being calculated properly, I am currently seeing over 250 counts on my general when he as a total of ~11 unit under him.
Superior Training gives all lower units +2 command limit.
It will let me assign my General as a minion to one of my champions.
A champion who's commander is the General...
Luckly it just causes a rather rapid CTD (not messages) when you then go and attack with said Champion, rather then getting stuck in an inifite loop of fractional exp.
Also, the Regimental Discipline is not being calculated properly, I am currently seeing over 250 counts on my general when he as a total of ~11 unit under him.
xienwolf
Deity
Yes.
Though I keep forgetting to verify that they'll be a UNITCOMBAT_COMMANDER Champion, and not a MELEE Champion. I am 99% certain that it'll work without any issue though, otherwise I would have remembered and tested it out by now.
Vivictus: Good catch on that one. I need to place a special block in the Commander Selection method to prevent someone who gained a command limit from a general from leading that same general (Or just plain a block so you can't follow your own commander would do it, come to think of it). The crash is because it forms an infinite loop of each of them passing Regimental Discipline and the other "Trickle" promotions to one another.
RD miscounting is fixed in patch A, releasing soon(ish)
Though I keep forgetting to verify that they'll be a UNITCOMBAT_COMMANDER Champion, and not a MELEE Champion. I am 99% certain that it'll work without any issue though, otherwise I would have remembered and tested it out by now.
Vivictus: Good catch on that one. I need to place a special block in the Commander Selection method to prevent someone who gained a command limit from a general from leading that same general (Or just plain a block so you can't follow your own commander would do it, come to think of it). The crash is because it forms an infinite loop of each of them passing Regimental Discipline and the other "Trickle" promotions to one another.
RD miscounting is fixed in patch A, releasing soon(ish)
KingKeeper
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 32
To Aviod Micro-Management i would reduce the Chain of Command to 3 Rows.
Other Commanders/Armys have one Commander commanding 3-5 Units
Let the Bannor Commander have +1 Units.
Let Bannor Units have Corporal but weaken it a bit. (diminishing returns)
Let Bannor Units have Seargent at lvl 5.
Let Bannor Units have Master Seargent at lvl 8, but only +1 Command, no Additional Seargents in the Army.
Normal Lvl1 Army would be:
Commander - 4 Units
After some Lvl ups:
Commander - 6 Units
After Lots of Fights:
Commander - 6 Seargent - 6 Minions
After Lots of more Fights:
Commander - 6 MasterSeargent - 12 Minions
Give the Special-Upgrades for Arctypes to Sergantes and their Minions, let the Commander give general Buffs to his Army (+Attack, +Def, +Heal, +Sight, +Exp, etc etc) while the Secial-Buffs are given to the Seargents that Buffs their Minions with it.
Maybe give the Commander some stronger Upgardes that work only for the Seargents but not the Minions.
Also tone down the general and Minionbuffs, they should be an addition not an replacement for the normal Unitsupgrade (+75% Attack trough the Commander is far to much)
Example:
Commander (+Attack, +Heal, +25% Damage for Seargents)
Archer MasterSeargent (Attackbuff, Healbuff, +25% Damage, +Number of First Strikes, +Ranged Damage)
Archer Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Number of First Strikes, Ranged Damage)
Archer Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Number of First Strikes, Ranged Damage)
Axeman Master Seargent (Attackbuff, Healbuff, +25% Damage, +Cityattack)
Axeman Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Cityattackbuff)
Axeman Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Cityattackbuff)
So you would have specialised Regiments (Archer-Regiment, Cavalery, Melee, Assassins etc) in the Army.
Other Commanders/Armys have one Commander commanding 3-5 Units
Let the Bannor Commander have +1 Units.
Let Bannor Units have Corporal but weaken it a bit. (diminishing returns)
Let Bannor Units have Seargent at lvl 5.
Let Bannor Units have Master Seargent at lvl 8, but only +1 Command, no Additional Seargents in the Army.
Normal Lvl1 Army would be:
Commander - 4 Units
After some Lvl ups:
Commander - 6 Units
After Lots of Fights:
Commander - 6 Seargent - 6 Minions
After Lots of more Fights:
Commander - 6 MasterSeargent - 12 Minions
Give the Special-Upgrades for Arctypes to Sergantes and their Minions, let the Commander give general Buffs to his Army (+Attack, +Def, +Heal, +Sight, +Exp, etc etc) while the Secial-Buffs are given to the Seargents that Buffs their Minions with it.
Maybe give the Commander some stronger Upgardes that work only for the Seargents but not the Minions.
Also tone down the general and Minionbuffs, they should be an addition not an replacement for the normal Unitsupgrade (+75% Attack trough the Commander is far to much)
Example:
Commander (+Attack, +Heal, +25% Damage for Seargents)
Archer MasterSeargent (Attackbuff, Healbuff, +25% Damage, +Number of First Strikes, +Ranged Damage)
Archer Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Number of First Strikes, Ranged Damage)
Archer Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Number of First Strikes, Ranged Damage)
Axeman Master Seargent (Attackbuff, Healbuff, +25% Damage, +Cityattack)
Axeman Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Cityattackbuff)
Axeman Minion (Attackbuff, Healbuff, Cityattackbuff)
So you would have specialised Regiments (Archer-Regiment, Cavalery, Melee, Assassins etc) in the Army.
readercolin
King
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 604
Another bug I have come across (not 100% sure if this is truly a bug, or if it is intended though). I have a captain, who is being followed by 5 master sergeants. The captian has battlefield tactics 3. The master sergeants are recieving the bonuses from battlefield tactics 3, but the sergents following them are not (i have 4 sergeants right now). The sergents are recieving the other bonuses (25% strength from master sergent, etc).
As to tactics that I have found useful (in case anyone is interested). So far I have only been using axmen, because it is still early game for me, and trying to fill the ranks of my army is inhibiting my growth city wise. I defend all my cities with 4 axmen, and later raise that to 5 if there are enough attacks to get a master sergeant. Due to the auto-gain xp from the training yards, we can assume all units have 10xp, one way or another. Two units take Corporal, sergeant, and combat 1, while the other two take corporal and combat 1-2. Then there is the mobile army (I built mine up destroying nearby barbarians). This starts out as a few guys who take corporal and combat 1 as their first two promotions. Then, when they get high enough they take sergeant, or if they're following and can't take the sergeant promotion, they take combat 2. Once you get one with master sergeant, start forming them into a unit - master sergeant commands 2 sergeants who command 2 corporals. Keep them in blocks of 5 until you get a captain.
Right now, due to the bug I encountered, the best use I have found for a captain is to take and follow him with a few corporals, and make them your heavy hitters. Once they have combat 1-5 and corporal, I would give them march or mobility if it is available to you, then give them sergeant and master sergeant. After this promotion series, if you have a general (or donald lough might work - I need to test this), have them join that persons army real quick, then leave so that they can promote to captain and lead their own squads. Trying to have a large force of a captain with 5 master sergeants, each with 2 sergeants, each with 1 corporal is just too many units to make good use of. Having multiple groups with less than captain leading it allows for more mobility and better use of the units. Then if you want and are about to go on an offensive, you can combine the units under a captain or a general and lead one large force. Until battlefield command can trickle down to subminions though, having everything lead by one captain is a bit pointless. And with the bug that gives significantly more xp (counting corporal too many times), you will end up with generals fairly quickly.
Hope my input is useful.
-Colin
As to tactics that I have found useful (in case anyone is interested). So far I have only been using axmen, because it is still early game for me, and trying to fill the ranks of my army is inhibiting my growth city wise. I defend all my cities with 4 axmen, and later raise that to 5 if there are enough attacks to get a master sergeant. Due to the auto-gain xp from the training yards, we can assume all units have 10xp, one way or another. Two units take Corporal, sergeant, and combat 1, while the other two take corporal and combat 1-2. Then there is the mobile army (I built mine up destroying nearby barbarians). This starts out as a few guys who take corporal and combat 1 as their first two promotions. Then, when they get high enough they take sergeant, or if they're following and can't take the sergeant promotion, they take combat 2. Once you get one with master sergeant, start forming them into a unit - master sergeant commands 2 sergeants who command 2 corporals. Keep them in blocks of 5 until you get a captain.
Right now, due to the bug I encountered, the best use I have found for a captain is to take and follow him with a few corporals, and make them your heavy hitters. Once they have combat 1-5 and corporal, I would give them march or mobility if it is available to you, then give them sergeant and master sergeant. After this promotion series, if you have a general (or donald lough might work - I need to test this), have them join that persons army real quick, then leave so that they can promote to captain and lead their own squads. Trying to have a large force of a captain with 5 master sergeants, each with 2 sergeants, each with 1 corporal is just too many units to make good use of. Having multiple groups with less than captain leading it allows for more mobility and better use of the units. Then if you want and are about to go on an offensive, you can combine the units under a captain or a general and lead one large force. Until battlefield command can trickle down to subminions though, having everything lead by one captain is a bit pointless. And with the bug that gives significantly more xp (counting corporal too many times), you will end up with generals fairly quickly.
Hope my input is useful.
-Colin
xienwolf
Deity
None of the "default" commander abilities have trickle-down effects, so they only improve the units IMMEDIATELY following you, not the ones following those units as well. That may get changed in the future, but currently only the Bannor are even capable of having a follower with followers (excluding an Archmage with some dominated units following him who decides to follow a Great Commander)
kenken244
Grammar Nazi
The promotion generals give to their followers doesn’t work, because it can't give the promotion to the commander unitcombat.
EDIT: The "Tactical Knowledge... Formation" promotions also seem to not be working.
EDIT: The "Tactical Knowledge... Formation" promotions also seem to not be working.
xienwolf
Deity
Generals with such promotions ought not to lead Captains, they should lead Melee units. Pretty sure each of the three formations are melee only. All 3 ought to be working properly, but remember they can be "turned off" and start in an inactive state IIRC.
kenken244
Grammar Nazi
The first part of my post was referring to the "superior training" promotion not being allowed for the commander unitcombat as I think was the intention. The formation promotions do not seem to grant the promotion allowing the formation changing spells, even when I have melee followers.
xienwolf
Deity
Doh! Yeah that one ought to be given to Captains. oops 
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
Hmmm...very interesting idea...a few thoughts I guess...
1st, this is obviously being used to test out all bugs and provide feedback for the Command system that is later to come. In other words, get the bugs corrected for this modmod. Then, find out what works and what doesn't, what's cumbersome, etc. It's a smart idea to go about doing that process this way instead of just tagging it onto FF and having the bugs from this, along with the expected bugs from a new version of FF. And, of course, doing it this way also means only people who are interested in using this feature are downloading it, preventing it from being a lot of uselessness for people who never play the Bannor. (I haven't downloaded it yet [I will], but it sounds like, from all the stuff in it, that it's not an overly large file but not microscopic either.) So, kudos for that.
2nd, Kingkeeper, among other things, mentioned an example army limit (assuming one has a captain, at least I'd guess that last commander below is a captain, using the current command system) of 19.
1st, this is obviously being used to test out all bugs and provide feedback for the Command system that is later to come. In other words, get the bugs corrected for this modmod. Then, find out what works and what doesn't, what's cumbersome, etc. It's a smart idea to go about doing that process this way instead of just tagging it onto FF and having the bugs from this, along with the expected bugs from a new version of FF. And, of course, doing it this way also means only people who are interested in using this feature are downloading it, preventing it from being a lot of uselessness for people who never play the Bannor. (I haven't downloaded it yet [I will], but it sounds like, from all the stuff in it, that it's not an overly large file but not microscopic either.) So, kudos for that.
2nd, Kingkeeper, among other things, mentioned an example army limit (assuming one has a captain, at least I'd guess that last commander below is a captain, using the current command system) of 19.
Now, to be honest, after 19 units per army I don't see the point. It becomes too cumbersome. Some people may not mind it, I'm sure. But from the viewpoint of balance, it's gets to be overpowered after 19 units. At least I think it would. Lemme test this and get back to you.
kenken244
Grammar Nazi
After playing around with this for a while, I can provide some feedback. I agree that the numbers do not show what will happen in game because of the sheer number of units involved. However, what I find to be the most potentially overpowering part is the no war weariness/ matinence buff of captains. This essentially removes the cap on the units you can have. I would much prefer if instead The command promotions would "trickle down" somewhat, by having one level grant the lower level to the followers. So a unit following a battlefield tactics 3 captain would get level 2 and their follower would get level 1. this also would apply to generals, but it would have less effect because they are higher in the command tree, but effect more units.
From my testing so far, I think the General promotion can be removed all together, it is nice, but really, by that time it is getting too clunky. Also, the Superior Training promotion does not seem to be working properly. For example, my general has 7 champions under him, they are all just corprals (or less), but Superior Training should let them all have 2 unit under them. All say they can have 2 minions when you mouse over them, but I can only actually attach 2 units to one of them. The other 6 still say they can have 2, but it is never actually an option. Having only one minion still does not let any of the others get any minions.
The Religious Leader II promotion is also listed as not being available with exp.
The Religious Leader II promotion is also listed as not being available with exp.
xienwolf
Deity
RLAF: You are right/wrong This is included in the main download, so unless someone too deliberate action to delete the module, everyone has it and uses it who has 051.
But yes, I designed this system partially to have fun, but primarily to flex every muscle I could of both the Commander System AND the Modular Loading system at the same time. Otherwise so much of it would be unused initially that many potential bugs would rear up and haunt us farther down the road when they aren't fresh in my mind and easily identified/solved.
The amazingly awesome thing about how Modules work is that we CAN delete this module from every computer with a patch, by setting the MLF to skip this particular module (It'll still be physically on your harddrive, but not load into the game)
Actually that would be a very easy thing to set up, and an appropriate trickle effect for standard command promotions. Nice one
Corporals cannot ever lead anyone who has any rank or Command Limit of their own. Maybe that was the issue you encountered?
I think that the Religious Leader II promotion is special for a hero unit.
This is included in the main download, so unless someone too deliberate action to delete the module, everyone has it and uses it who has 051.But yes, I designed this system partially to have fun, but primarily to flex every muscle I could of both the Commander System AND the Modular Loading system at the same time. Otherwise so much of it would be unused initially that many potential bugs would rear up and haunt us farther down the road when they aren't fresh in my mind and easily identified/solved.
The amazingly awesome thing about how Modules work is that we CAN delete this module from every computer with a patch, by setting the MLF to skip this particular module
(It'll still be physically on your harddrive, but not load into the game)Actually that would be a very easy thing to set up, and an appropriate trickle effect for standard command promotions. Nice one
Corporals cannot ever lead anyone who has any rank or Command Limit of their own. Maybe that was the issue you encountered?
I think that the Religious Leader II promotion is special for a hero unit.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
RLAF: You are right/wrong
Well, crap, I clearly need to read more carefully.
I thought it said in the 1st post that it was not in the mod. I have selective dyslexia. 
xienwolf
Deity
Not OFFICIALLY part of the mod. In other words: It'll disappear as soon as we decide how to go about it in a balanced manner, so no complaints when that time comes. 
kenken244
Grammar Nazi
Do you think it would be more balanced if the corporal efect scaled down not on the number of units, but on how many times it goes up the chain? so the seargent would get the full 10% bonus but his master seargent would only get a 5% bonus from each corporal, his captain getting only 2.5% from each and the general only getting 1.25% froom each? It seems right now that the most unbalanced part is that the higher levels get obscene boni from the numbers of corporals. this way would bring that down to scale, while still allowing the lower levels to gain some exp. This all should be pretty easy to implement if I understand the system correctly.
xienwolf
Deity
Yes, that way would work fairly well. Then each level would still have a reasonable cap on the bonus they can get. You would just have to add a few promotions with the lower percentage rates and have it grant the next tier down as the trickle-Promotion.
kenken244
Grammar Nazi
I'm encountering a weird bug where a master sergeant is getting too many "regimental discipline" promotions. He has 2 followers who are sergeants. None of those have followers. He has 3 instances of the promotion. After moving him off the tile, he only has one instance. I believe this was caused after on of his sergeant’s followers (who was a corporal) died, but I may be wrong as I did not notice the number of promotions he had until a while after the corporal died.
Merddyn
Scholar of the Arcane
I'd suspect (haven't had a chance to try out the Bannor yet) that they, y'know, maintain the previous rank promotions benefits even after promoting, and therefore, the Sergeants have the bonus from when they were Corporals, as does the Master Sergeant. Kind of like how when you get Combat 5 it doesn't show combat 1-4 in the promotion list, but you still get the bonuses from them.
