Monarch game for shadowing, criticism, commentary, or general mocking

[6K Man]

I play a lot of games on Monarch, and win some of them. But I don't know if I'm any good at Monarch, because I tend to play with unusual settings.

I like overlarge maps ("that makes it harder" say some) with more-than-default numbers of AIs ("that makes it harder" they chime in again), sometimes on Archipeligo maps ("that makes it easier" come the protests) with tech brokering off ("that makes it easier, unless it makes it harder" they confusingly chime in).

In most of my games, I play the starts that look interesting, run out far ahead, and then either get bored and quit, find that the game turns into a slog and quit, or win.

So no more screwing around. Monarch, standard map size, Terra...standard # of AIs, standard settings, random leader. Here we go...

Spoiler :

Not my favourite leader by a longshot.

Spoiler :

And not an especially great start either. OK, I can do this...

 

[6K Man]

Spoiler :

Moved the Settler a bit because the start looked awful. Headed 2N 1E and settled there, netting what looks like ocean access and some food... once I get to Calendar.

Started researching Agriculture (not Mining as in screenshot, although that will likely be next. No seafood in sight, so I'll start a Worker. Make sense so far?

 

[smackthewise]

Yup, its a average capital at best :O I'd go farming, mining and BW to chop out another city asap. Looks like its going to be a pretty slow start though. Izzy's traits aren't working in this starts favour

Good luck dude

 

[6K Man]

OK. 2 huts, 40 and 61 coins. Went Worker-Warrior-Worker (size 3)-Settler. It's now 2360. Researched Agriculture, Mining, BW, Wheel. Met Darius and Mehmet.

Spoiler :

The Copper-Piggies-Rice site is where my first Settler will head to. I like the look of the Dyes-Bananas-Corn site eventually. To the SE is some nice FP and Fish, can't quite figure out where the city should go... I want to minimize unworkable tiles, settle on Desert and not FP, and ideally be able to build a Lighthouse... 3 mutually exclusive goals!

Thoughts?

 

[ifinnem]

Where are the AIs - you want to expand towards them to block land
Capital is good for prod only so you need to find at least 1 good cottage city soon to pay the bills (since no GLH or shrine)

 

[Sportyatuncw06]

The spot you have laid out for the northermost city, what about putting it on the right side of the lake instead? It would be bordering ocean allowing health bonuses later with harbor although it would lose the 2 dye. It has a few hills for mines post IW to help generate GLH. You could then put another city between the dyes and sugar or split the dye, one with elephants, one with sugar.

 

[mariogreymist]

The spot you have laid out for the northermost city, what about putting it on the right side of the lake instead? It would be bordering ocean allowing health bonuses later with harbor although it would lose the 2 dye. It has a few hills for mines post IW to help generate GLH. You could then put another city between the dyes and sugar or split the dye, one with elephants, one with sugar.

I think that's another lake, not ocean. I do think the 7floodplain+fish site (which isn't even marked) is a higher priority than settling in that jungle though. Not sure this is the spot for the glh either...probably no/very little overseas trading until astronomy (terra) and the better sites (with the exception of the one I mentioned) all seem to be inland cities.

 

[Shurdus]

The southern city I would place to have the bronze in the inner ring and to claim the rice but nexy to the river, so 2E1S from where it currently is. It leaves the pigs + ivory (early happiness! ) for a second city. The dye I would propably split up into two cities. One with corn + dye, the other taking the banana and dye. Both will have the food to grow and still be able to cottage up.

Settle the bronze first. Then go for the ivory. Scout some more to see who is where. With this amount of land the bad news is barb cities will show up, quite a few probably. The good news is this may safe you settlers, and you may be able to unlock the HE from holdiong of barb hordes.

Unfortunately even though I play this game for well over 3 years I still never pay attention to the dates, just to the turn number. You are at 8.68% of the game but I have no idea how far along you are, my guess would be turn late 30ish since you have a first settler out. If you have not met anyone yet I would urge you to get a few more scouting units out. A workboat would be nice to see if there are islands to settle, and a few units to spawnbust the surrounding lands would be great to keep you safer from barbs.

I would prioritise writing and then go all out city spamming while using scientists specialists and cottages to keep the economy going. If you are isolated this approach will get you a little behind the AI in terms of techs, but it should secure you so much quality land - and the land we have shown is is godly - that you will have the land and economy to stomp anything that comes between you and victory.

Good luck, following this one with interest!

 

[Fleme]

I'd place the copper city riverside, 1SE of the copper. While expansive will allow more liberal city placement, I see no reason to forgo the riverside here. Furthermore, it'll open the pigs up for an additional city by the other river, 1s of the phants.

 

[mrt309]

I'd settle in place or 1S if i were you. Losing 2 turns at start is significant especially on normal speed (if it is). 1 SE of copper is good to settle first. It can be an early military pump. Farm the rice, mine the copper and riverside hills and produce units after barracks. You can keep pigs for ivory. 1S of ivory would be a nice commerce city with 10 riverside tiles. Good luck.

 

[robvollman]

Reaction to original post:
Plains? Yuck! You could make a lot of cottages there, though - are you going to have a CE? If not, you could make a big food city. I saw work the lake and found a religion.

Then:
Oh good, you found an ocean nearby. That's very good luck. Plus a few hills to get a more balanced city.
Lately I've been making workers my first builds too (instead of warriors) - I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was wondering if I should build warriors to explore and let me grow like I used to.

Next:
Get Iron Working so you can job those jungles down in the north.
Are you going to REX at all? The argument in favour of building that Flood Plain city is that you can get some cottages started. That could be your money city; the earlier the better, and important if you're going to REX.

 

[6K Man]

Madrid's site was, believe it or not, a blue circle. I did use up 2 moves getting there, but in the long run, I'm probably better off with the extra food (bananas and the lake which will be 3F with a Lighthouse).

TBH I would probably have regenerated that sucker in most circumstances.

@Shurdus - your city placement ideas make sense. No point in getting 2 food specials in one city and none in another.

 

[ifinnem]

Agree with Shurdus re city placement.
However, I would delay the jungle cities and not research IW myself - you can always get this in a trade. Get some cottages going in FP city, go for writing and early GS then REX - 1st wave of 3-5 to block then next wave post currency & CoL

 

[dirtyparrot]

I would either split that northern city into 2 or build it 1S to be able to work the corn without needing a border pop.

 

[6K Man]

Sorry (as if anyone was on the edge of their seat ) for the delay - dinner party last night...

Played a few more turns to 1000 BC...

Spoiler :

The south front:

The north front:

Teched IW, AH - some Iron to the NW, Boudica has horses. Working on Writing now, aiming for the economic techs (Currency) and from there, Aesthetics and Literature and the GLib. Would be nice to swap some techs as well.

Boudica is to the south of me, Mehmet to the north (just N of the Workboat), Darius to the southwest. I adopted Hinduism (Boudica founded) - she's now pleased. Mehmet is in WHEOOHN, but he is angry with Darius, so hopefully he's the target.
Watched Stonehenge and Oracle get built somewhere else. Nothing else material happened in the world.

I am using Barcelona as a unit pump - probably shouldn't have cottaged those 2 riverside tiles in its BFC, in retrospect.

Madrid is pumping out Settlers, probably will do a couple more at least, trying to get the Dye/Nanners site to the N and one other city between that one and Cordoba.

I would have liked to have put Seville 2S of where it is and another city either 1N or 2N of its current location, but Boudica beat me to the 2S location. I do think that Seville will be my commerce burg... 4 FP, 2 seafood resources. I could certainly run specialists there too - the only issue is lack of production, which I'll need to solve with whipping.

I thought about putting Cordoba 1W to be on the river, but I wanted quick access to the Pigs, and felt that later cities could be on that river. Later cities might be someone else's, but that's fine too.

Any thoughts?

 

[ifinnem]

A few observations

1) I think it was a big mistake to research IW - unless you are planning an early sword war or all your cities will be jungle (or are Rome) it almost never makes sense to research IW yourself on Monarch+. You can always get it for Alpha or Aesth or something.
As a result you delayed writing by 20-30 turns which not only means no +25% but also delay in your first GS for an academy

2) I think you could have gotten the site 2S of Seville if you'd settled more aggressively. Ask yourself did you really need copper with your first city? Its not like you risked losing that site to the AI. Again unless early rush or barb danger don't always go copper with city #2

3) Yeah I guess the 60% rule (break even at about 60% science) is a guide for how many cities you can afford - ie you can afford 1-2 more cities.
However that is a) only a guide if the land is worth the extra REX and b) doesn't mean you should actually run @60%. Binary research makes a lot of sense (lmk if you need an explanation on that)

4) Be sure to have enough workers ,~1.5x per city, and connect up your cities ASAP for trade routes - helps offset maintenance

5) Overall you definitely want alpha and currency soon. Research whichever one the AI doesn't have. Then similar advice to before - get some cottages somewhere to pay the bills and settle some blocking cities in the North or South

6) Time will tell but might be a little early to adopt a religion as Mehmed / Darius could end up with something different

7) I always assume I'm the target unless I know for sure I'm not! (eg was pleased)
FYI it's Darius who is WHEOOHRN (not Mehmed)- unless there is another AI W of him you could easily be the target since he is far from both Mehmed and Boudica. Send a troop over to see how his SOD is coming once you have writing for OB.

Good luck!

 

[ifinnem]

Not my favourite leader by a longshot.

Learn to love uber promoted siege from the UB. Delay economics and raise hell with them!

 

[sesaMe]

i had a go at this map, wasnt prepared for how big it was! i axe-manned into persia then celtica before i got too far behind on tech. north might be a smarter way to send your army, if your inclined towards early war

 

[ifinnem]

@sesaME that type of comment should probably be spoilered

 

[ifinnem]

Here is how I would have played from your ~2300BC save
I'm am by no means an ace player and this was far from perfect but just to show you the implementation of my approach

Comparison up to 1000BC (spoilered just in case)

Spoiler :

Basic plan
Aggressive settling to south, delaying copper city and using archers vs barbs
New site for capital with decent commerce (actually moved palace later which is unusual for me)
Aim for 6-7 cities by ~1AD with space for a few more after that
Stay out of religion until its safe to do so
Lopsided trades to neighbours Boudica and Mehmed to improve relations (they suck anyway)
Get GS's going (actually delayed this a bit by mistake, just forgot)

Archery made sense since I needed hunting for the ivory happy anyway. Turns out hardly saw any barbs anyway

And as at 250 AD - once I basically have all my cities settled

Spoiler :

From here I'm set - just converted Mehmed to Hindu and went Hindu myself so all my neighbours are pleased and will not declare. 9+ cities with good land so will cruise to Lib and then use military advantage + great production to take out Darius at which point game over as I'll have 2x land of anyone else

Overview of empire

Spoiler :

Lost the N banana + dye to Mehmed but who cares I have all those resources elsewhere and he is now blocked in with the capture of ex-barb city Carib (NW)

Spoiler :

Capital + demographics

Sneak preview of at 700AD to prove I'm not talking BS about pulling ahead

Spoiler :

#1 in GNP now and will keep climbing

Lib is in the bag

If this is at all useful I can provide you a dump of saves.
That way you check out more details on city builds etc.
I know when I was following other players I always found it useful to be able to poke around at all the interim points