Monarch Ouch

[jackdog]

Hi all first post so be nice,

could always beat civ 2 on harderst level and am glad civ 3 is harder but being an obsessive with a PhD that is suffering badly at the hands of this particular obsession a bit of advise would be good.

Have always played Catherine with 3 or 4 other AI's on a great lakes map and can fairly reliably beat Prince level, or know if I will within 45 mins of play anyway.

Monarch is a different story.

I guess first question is just how hard is it to beat monarch and above, I don't have the time I would love to completely obsess as have kids dogs PhD work etc but get really peeved when can't beat something like this and not even on the hardest level.

Have had an hour or two at several games as Quin Shi Huang with great lakes and three other players and can hold my own againt one or two of the AI's but one always runs away and within a couple of hours has a score of 1200 to my 600 or so. I havn't gone fruther thinking this is unwinnable although there has been no wars so far.

I am thinking my habbit of great lakes and only 4 players is a problem as there is so much room for expansion with the advantages the AI's start with.

What set up map wise and how many players do people who can beat Monarch use?

Am thinking Tokugawa may be good to play since reading some stuff here as have underestimated the aggresive civ I think.

All thought comments, within reason, welcome.

 

[Dystopian]

I could easily beat Prince from the day I bought the game...well after some practice. I continually struggled on Monarch and thought the weighted advantage for the AI was a huge jump up from Prince. Now I am thinking of up-ing again to Emporer as I can beat Monarch almost every time with any victory condition.

The key advance in skill was after I finally understood how to play a Specialized Economy (SE). Basically micromanaging your city squares nearly every turn and focusing your cities for specific improvements. There are dozens of posts out there about it.

The other major leap forward for me was becoming comfortable with slavery and quick city growth (using the whip!) to gain an early advantage, and understanding diplomacy / and each leaders tendencies. For example, I know to hardly every bother with Japan with the false hope they will be a good ally...take them out early, or ignore them all together.

Lastly, giving up my predaliction for wonder building. I rarely if ever go for most wonders now...the Oracle, Pyramids, and Great Library being the only major must haves for me. Almost all other wonders detract from SE, or cost too much.

 

[Irish82]

Track down Sisutil's guide for beginners in the War Academy. Get well versed on using slavery, and also begin to learn how to trade techs. You have to start there.

I could easily beat Prince from the day I bought the game...well after some practice. I continually struggled on Monarch and thought the weighted advantage for the AI was a huge jump up from Prince. Now I am thinking of up-ing again to Emporer as I can beat Monarch almost every time with any victory condition.

The AI advantages on Emperor are enormous, trust me. I find that Monarch provides for the most fun play and allows enough challenge that it stays interesting and not so much AI advantage that it gets incredibly frustrating. But I'm not as good as some of the guys on this board, so good luck!!!

 

[Kev]

As a CivII Deity+ player I can verify that Monarch Civ IV is a very different experience. Civ II allowed for a very cookie-cutter approach to the game, and it always involved EXPAND FAST in some way, shape or form. Civ IV won't allow for that - especially on Monarch and above.

The best part about this game is that once you are up to Monarch you are really forced to leverage your civ's advantages and play to the map/rivals at hand. Utilizing your civilization's characteristics, unique units, unique buildings, cheaper buildings, etc is the only way that you can win consistently. Exploiting your rivals' weaknesses is also key, and given the wide range of civs in the games with their unique leaders, every new game is tremendously different.

There's a great deal of advice on these boards, and Sisiutil has a number of games played at the Monarch level where he has highlighted a specific leader and tries to concentrate on each one's uniqueness. It is a great learning experience and I suggest you look at the current one and read the ones that went before as well.

Lastly, I would suggest a more 'standard' map for learning. I believe most people choose continents or fractal maps with the standard number of rivals based on the map size. You also mention that you had a game that went on without wars and you found yourself behind. While it's not necessary, most people at Monarch, I feel, have found that some very early warfare often sets the stage for a more successful effort. Helps you gain land and resources while denying this to your closer rivals. The AI may have some built-in advantages, but they really are just not that good at warfare compared to a capable human player.

My personal opinion is that the Warlord version of Augusts is the easiest civ to win with given his excellent traits (creative and organized) and a superior unique unit (provided you have iron available). Try it out with some early wars and see how quickly you surpass the AI civs in the mid/late game.

Have fun.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

On Monarch the AI will run away at the start and will have a score much higher than you. Don't worry about this - eventually you can catch up and pass them. If you are playing on a level that challenges you this may not be until quite late in the game - thats OK. Its like starting a race with a handicap - they will gain score quicker at the start, but you plan to overtake them in the longterm as their bonuses get less significant and your better strategy overtakes them.

Much more useful is where do you stand in terms of military and tech. On Monarch you will need to:

- Leverage your unique units/buildings and traits which means every game requires a different strategy.
- Trade a lot more aggressively and work the diplomacy angle with the other AIs.
- Consider going to war early to gain territory - letting the AI build and populate your cities for you. The AI get no advantage in war other than more units and they have a big handicap in that their war strategy is a joke.
- Beeline your tech research to achieve particular goals (eg Liberalism or particular military techs) ahead of the AI and accept you will be behind in other areas.
- Manage your military to make sure you aren't a target of opportunity for aggressive AIs.

Also Great Lakes is a fairly hard map. You will find fractal or continents maps easier where you can use your coastline to concentrate your defenses and the AIs can't just expand in every direction. I've played a Great Lakes map as Ghandi surrounded by Napoleon, Ghengis Khan, Alexander and HC (when he was aggressive). Alex, Ghengis and Napoleon all took turns at attacking me. Eventually squeezed out a cultural win but many desperate moments drafting muskets for defense.

 

[jackdog]

Thanks guys or for all I know girls,

Read the sisutlis stuff and learnt a few things. Thanks for the additional info tips and reassurance. Am trying continents as japan on prince just to get used to the use of naval stuff and how the maps work, may abaondone this when it becomes obvious I will win and start a Monarch game and play till the bitter end lose or not, lose i'm sure to begin with..

At least it seems I am not being a wimp finding the move to monarch a challange.

Still debating the Warlords download, might get a win or two in at monarch first.

Thanks again

 

[Immaculate]

off topic
Good luck with the PhD. Once you have that in hand, you'll join the other 99% of people on this board who are highly overeducated and overly analytical. Seriously, many many many people who take civ seriously have PhDs. I can think of three of the top of my head.
/off-topic

 

[mice]

Still debating the Warlords download, might get a win or two in at monarch first.

Warlords 2.08 is signifcantly harder than 1.61 IMO.

 

[lukep]

warlord mornarch is much tougher than prince monarch while prince levels are roughly equals

 

[jackdog]

This may be too complex a question to answer and forgive my lack of knowledge but what makes warlords that much harder.

I would imagine the greater number of variables buildings civs etc makes it a bit more of a strain to make choices but shouldn't make it harder, though plainly you say it is.....are some of the game mechanics and rules different.

As an update am still on prince game on continents to get used to naval stuff etc and find the map easier than great lakes as suggested. The reseouces seem to be much more tighly packed. I think I got a good first shot though with an good first placement. In the middle of kicking montezuma's arse for being a ****, as he is, warring for no reason.

Brief other question. It has never occured to me to win in any other way than domination. I rarely get past riflemen/cavalry as on prince I just get there first, them swarm the map and kill everyone else within a few years. I also find this is the quickest way. Does this strategy stand any chance on monarch, though it may take a bit longer.


not surprised i am not the only sad academic here, this is a site for fanatics afterall, like most of a similar ilk i ain't samrt just determined to the point of absession.

 

[Charou]

off topic
Good luck with the PhD. Once you have that in hand, you'll join the other 99% of people on this board who are highly overeducated and overly analytical. Seriously, many many many people who take civ seriously have PhDs. I can think of three of the top of my head.
/off-topic

I join the club, then.

 

[mice]

This may be too complex a question to answer and forgive my lack of knowledge but what makes warlords that much harder.

AI is a bit smarter about managing it's cities so it tech faster. Also there are hidden bonuses which allow the AI to tech trade better so they tech faster this way too.

 

[Titus001]

Hi all first post so be nice,

could always beat civ 2 on harderst level and am glad civ 3 is harder but being an obsessive with a PhD that is suffering badly at the hands of this particular obsession a bit of advise would be good.

Have always played Catherine with 3 or 4 other AI's on a great lakes map and can fairly reliably beat Prince level, or know if I will within 45 mins of play anyway.

Monarch is a different story.

I guess first question is just how hard is it to beat monarch and above, I don't have the time I would love to completely obsess as have kids dogs PhD work etc but get really peeved when can't beat something like this and not even on the hardest level.

Have had an hour or two at several games as Quin Shi Huang with great lakes and three other players and can hold my own againt one or two of the AI's but one always runs away and within a couple of hours has a score of 1200 to my 600 or so. I havn't gone fruther thinking this is unwinnable although there has been no wars so far.

I am thinking my habbit of great lakes and only 4 players is a problem as there is so much room for expansion with the advantages the AI's start with.

What set up map wise and how many players do people who can beat Monarch use?

Am thinking Tokugawa may be good to play since reading some stuff here as have underestimated the aggresive civ I think.

All thought comments, within reason, welcome.

If you tried many times to beat that level and failed i would suggest giving yourself 1 free tech. Maybe bronzeworking as a free tech. Its all about the fun of the game.....

 

[InvisibleStalke]

This may be too complex a question to answer and forgive my lack of knowledge but what makes warlords that much harder.

I would imagine the greater number of variables buildings civs etc makes it a bit more of a strain to make choices but shouldn't make it harder, though plainly you say it is.....are some of the game mechanics and rules different.

As an update am still on prince game on continents to get used to naval stuff etc and find the map easier than great lakes as suggested. The reseouces seem to be much more tighly packed. I think I got a good first shot though with an good first placement. In the middle of kicking montezuma's arse for being a ****, as he is, warring for no reason.

Brief other question. It has never occured to me to win in any other way than domination. I rarely get past riflemen/cavalry as on prince I just get there first, them swarm the map and kill everyone else within a few years. I also find this is the quickest way. Does this strategy stand any chance on monarch, though it may take a bit longer.


not surprised i am not the only sad academic here, this is a site for fanatics afterall, like most of a similar ilk i ain't samrt just determined to the point of absession.

Swarming cavalry definitely stands a chance on Monarch, but it is harder to pull off as the AI tech quicker and have larger armies. You have to play well to be in a position to do this.

If thats always how you win on Prince, then Prince is probably too easy for you.

My impression is that you could probably be successful on a Monarch map just by optimizing your play a little and being less concerned about being at the bottom of the score chart for a long time. Don't give yourself bonus techs - just practise.

One technique I found very useful was optimizing my early game play by playing several games in a row where I just got out my first few cities and teched up to maybe Alphabet. It only takes 30-60 minutes and forces you to concentrate on optimizing your early game.