Monarch Student^ XVII- Peter

@ gagnarath

Most players wont bulb anything before Philosophy becasue the returns are too small (if i was isolated i might bulb compass in a push to finding other civs, but thats not the case here). The academy, although in the wrong city, was the right idea for the first GS. The second should have academied dye city and the third either held around for a later bulb or settled in your major science city.

I like your idea of hitting pacal. Elephants and catapults with a few axes for protection could do this very nicely. If you do get him to cassal the help he will give you in teching probably = winning the game.
 
@ CarlH

Yeah I was still kind of panicing at that point and just wanted to grab techs, but hopefully I'll absorb this for the next time.
 
Gag
Spoiler :

You could get away with an academy in 3 of your cities - capital + dyes + the one you did do it in. Think you'd come out ahead much stronger doing this. I mean you'll get what 90+ commerce in the cap, and eventually 60-70 in other 2 cities all cottaged? Plus the capital has a huge amount of hammers for wealth building. Avoid getting attacked and tech like crazy.
 
@Grashopa - your posts are very educational and informative, maybe you should write some guides. I'm beginning to appreciate the kind of precision required to succeed consistently on Immortal from reading your posts. :D

Didn't have time to play this episode of MS, hopefully I'll be around for the next one.
 
Thanks to both CarlH and Grashope for the advice, I attempted to follow both.

500 AD -> 1615 AD Monarch / Normal (again looking for advice at the end)

Spoiler :
Decided against immediate war with anyone, but within a few hundred years Pacal had raced ahead techwise (curse you low return bulbs!), I abandoned the Liberalism path when I saw Pacal had both Philosophy and Paper on me to tech to Rifling / Military Tradition as directly as possible, I got a number of decent trades though on my way up being the first to Fuedalism (technically GK was first but he didn't seem to trade anything to anyone just took advantage of his large amount of land), Guilds, Gunpowder (this I didn't trade to anyone though), Nationalism (built Taj Mahal, traded when halfway done), Banking (bulbed through GM, I switched from GS production to GM when I decided what I wanted to do and got 3, 2 trade missions), maybe a few others things. Next time I'll remember to take screens and or notes as I play >.>

Anyway my plan was hoping that Pacal would continue to neglect his defenses and I could tech to Cossacks to sweep across his land and hear the lamentations of his women and all that. I got the 2nd and 3rd academies up in Moscow and Yaroslavl, changed GP farm production to Merchants and built as many knights as possible while teching. I built The Collosus in Moscow kind of on a whim, I notied how late it was and it still wasn't gone and fully expected to get some fail gold for it but it finished and a number of my cities are coastal so that was nice boost considering it was a very fast build that late with copper. The Taj Mahal GA saw me change civics to Representation, Vassalage, Free Market and Theocracy while holding Caste over. The two Great Merchants were cashed in Karakorum for a fairly lowly 1.3k each and as soon as I hit military tradition about 20 Knights became Cossacks, all cities switched to producing more Cossacks and in around 1500 AD war were declared.

Cossacks swept through Mayapan, Lakamha and Uxmal extremely quickly maybe 1-2 losses and converged on Mutal, sadly by this point Pacal flipped the magical tech swith and had Cavalry, Rifles and even Cannon of his own. I sit outside Mutal teching steel with my city capture gold, a GS had bulbed me most of Chemistry as I had prepared for the worst and switched GPP back to scientists so it wasn't too long before cannons were making their way south. Well it was long enough for Mayapan, Lakamha and Uxmal to lose a fair amount of population from having no land to work >.> But not too long that Pacal built enough units to succefully defend himself, Cannons worked down his defense and then proceded to lay down whatever life a cannon has to weaken his troops. Thankfully, and god knows for what reason, he decided the best way to counter my Cossacks was with Cavalry and there was about a 2:1 ratio of Cavalry to Rifles defending. I lost a few more Cossacks and I think suicided about 5 cannons but Mutal fell and my previous conquests could finally work the land surrounding them. Pacal still wouldn't capitulate though so my stack moved down to Chichen Itza, killed one Cavalry on the way and the next turn he will capitulate \o/

Lakamha and Mutal are FULL of wonders, I think atleast 5 each and Mutal is the shrine city for Hindu, a religion spread to half the world. Lakamha has the shrine for Judaism but that only has about a 20% spread so less interesting, but still some nice GPT. In terms of improvements they seem to be a bit of a mess but I'll sort them out when Mutal comes out of rebellion.

Mayan Conquests
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The Motherland
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Tech Situation
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Units
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Wonders
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As you can see from the map of my empire I'm not getting some pretty extreme cultural pressure from Hammurabi, and to be honest after seeing Babylon I am green with envy :rolleyes: He shouldn't be allowed such an awesome city and certainly shouldn't use it to steal my tiles from very far away :cry:

However, GK has gone into WHEOOHRN, after the world met Issy/Saladin, he is pleased with me at +7, no one else is higher, but we recently got -1 "close borders..." He's somewhat keeping up with tech but think my Cossacks/Cannon could roll over him still especially if his military is composed of a lot of ex-Keshik cavalry. The land I'd gain, unless I wiped him out completely is fairly poor though, desert, plains and no resources I don't have unless I wipe him out to gain oil come combustion. I can get that much easier from Babylon though, as well as Sugar and Banana's that I'm trading for.


So, again I ask for advice how to proceed from the more experienced.

War? Attack Genghis before he attacks me? If so do I just neutralise the threat and try and cap him or do I destroy him? Alternatively, do I consider Hammurabi's tile stealing an attack of aggression and take all his pretty green land! If I do this I imagine I'll invest a fair number of hammers into nice CG2 Rifles for my nothern border. Izzy/Saladin have no friends, are behind in tech and don't even like each other being zealots of differing religions, but I hate intercontinental wars ;<

Civics? Honestly this is one aspect of the game I really kind of suck at, when to change, what to change too, how many to change at once. I have every civic in the game a maximum of 2 techs away, currently Representation, Vassalage, Caste System, Free Market and Theocracy. If I go to war I'll definately want to keep Vassalage and Theocracy, I've never used Nationhood so I'm not really sure how the mechanics work as I have a number of decent production cities I'd rather build my troops unless I have no option. Is Caste losing it's usefullness as the GP take longer to come? If I have to change a number of improvements in ex-Mayan territory would Emancipation be better to grow cottages? And if so should I change from Rep to US? If I don't go to war do I go to Bureaucracy or Free Speech to fight cultural pressure, Organised Religion for building up my new cities or Free Religion for science risking losing a big + from GK?

National Wonders? My northern most city (cows/incense/wine) is farmed and workshopped for production, Moscow produces units fast and Yekaterinburg (iron/3elephants/corn) has Moai so it churns units out at decent speed too. I don't have Ironworks or Heroic Epic placed yet though. I have a settled Great General in Moscow, was thinking of both there but that then loses the ability for me to put Oxford there. My assumption is Mutal with the mega shrine is the best place for Wall Street.

Techs? Again I have a lot of options here too :rolleyes: I have control of myself and Pacal's teching, the Great Spy (>.>) and Great Scientist from Communism/Physics are still available. I have a GM coming soon if I want to build Rifles and upgrade to Infantry but I think the Cossacks have life in them yet. I could save him for Sushi? Tech for war? Or pick up techs I'm missing to improve my infrastructure, I don't have Astro yet for trade/observatories or a lot of the civic techs but they're all very close.

Any advice or comments are very welcome!
 
Gag
Spoiler :

I know how awesome Ham's capital is - I took it with an axe rush. :) It has 22 surplus food. With GT you can stay at a population of 16 and draft every turn with ~25 hammers. Wow!

Just keep attacking, don't stop. Hammurabi is next. Cossacks are awesome because the AI does spam mounted units to counter attack. 31 cavalry is a lot. Do they have flanking 2 ? thats ~50% chance to survive no matter what. Don't worry about bringing up cannons except for the AI's stack. Just run around hitting the cities with 4 defenders. If you can hit their main stack right away with siege than you are free to romp. So scout 'em out.

And get after GK next I assume hes nowhere near rifling?

Attacking Pacal first was probably a mistake just because he _could_ get to rifles so fast. Get Hammurabi then take out GK and you have a ridiculous amount of production that it doesn't matter if someone has tech on you. Though make sure no AI gets nukes before you stomp on them :)

 
Nihil - Thanks, I just like playing against other people instead of the AI. Love these forums.

If anyone knows of a Chinese language Civ4 forum with active forum games like these let me know!
 
Gag

I would also suggest hitting Hammi, he doesnt have rifles or steel, so it should be a walk in the park
 
1615 -> 1919 Domination win Monarch / Normal :D

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3 stacks for Hammurabi
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1675 forces ready to invade Hammurabi from 3 points. Took some gold from him earlier which slowed my invasion plans enough for him to get rifles and cavalry >.> Took 3 cities on the first turn of combat, lost 4 cossacks and one suicided cannon. I hoped to continue on and take Dur-kurigalzu, Babylon and Akkad. War is over around 1700, he would cap before I took babylon but I wasn't having any of that. Babylon needs a particularly large garrison to reduce chance of revolt but welll worth it. I don't take Dur-Kurigalzu as it would have taken a lot of time and I'd rather move on to the dutch. Post war to reduce unhappiness in mayan/babylonian cities I do a civic change for emancipation, US/FS/Eman/FM/Theo so I still have 2 promotion troops.

1818 - probably delayed war with Willem too long, he's teching well but I have artillery on him and his stack is in a border city. GK has more soldiers than me but my borders with him are well defended and I'm staying the same religion hoping he'll behave but he's been WHEOOHRN for what seems like most of the game now >.> Started invasion around 1830 after building up forces outside Rotterdam. Took the last city in 1866 and started moving forces over to the mongolian border.
Spoiler :
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GK declared on Saladin in 1884, I finished moving over my troops and building up my air/seas forces and declared in 1892, final city was taken in 1910, I set all cities to build wealth, pumped up the culture slider and waited for victory. Mongols were pretty backwards other than having destroyers that I lost a stack of Battleships and Carriers too when he attacked with 10+ of them. On land I lost next to nothing though, tanks + bombers rolled over his rifles/cav/cannons and I had CG2/3 troops being airdropped in from Moscow/Yekatrinburg every turn into cities I took.

Cities / Demos / Units / Score
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1919 Domination win :D:D:D Thanks for all the advice in the thread I'm sure I wouldn't have done half as well without the help from CarlH and Grashopa. I still have a lot I can improve on, I think all my wars didn't start soon enough and probably lasted a little too long, I can definately make more balanced stacks and improve my attacking in general in terms of targets. Looking forward to playing more at Monarch though and tightening up my game.
 
Monarch/Normal/1918 Space Victory

Spoiler :
I settled in place and met several AIs pretty fast. That's why i founded 7-8 cities quickly to grab land. Then i started to build an elephant/catapult army. Pacal and Genghis were friendly because of religion. Hammurabi declared when i was about to declare on him. I took a few cities and he became my vassal. Same story about Willem too. I declared Genghis and completely destroyed him. Pacal was next. After invading my continent completely i was close to domination(%61 land). I built UN and launched space ship also. I could get an earlier victory but I lost my interest. Finally i won in 1918.
Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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A strange bug occurred. I had a city that i had taken from Pacal on a small island. In last turns of the game free workers started to appear there every turn. I deleted them before the last turn. It was annoying.
Spoiler :
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