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Monarch Student^ XVII- Peter

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by BigTime, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    It's time for the 17th edition of Monarch Student Prime! Our glorious leader today, Peter of Russia!



    Peter has a good set of traits, expansive and philosophical. Expansive is underrated IMO as it helps set up cities faster with cheap granaries and workers, and the +2 health isn't bad at all. Philosophical is a great trait, allowing you to get GP farming early and a quick Oxford setup with cheap universities:

    His UU is the Cossack:



    A cavalry with a 25% bonus to mounted units. I like it, as cuirassier are the only real thing that cavalry might have trouble with pre-rifles. And hell, it's still cavalry, which are ridiculously strong units to begin with. It's good, but it's no praetorian.

    His UB is the Research Institute:



    A laboratory that gives two free scientists. Unless you're going for space, you're likely not going to be building labs at all, so this UB is pretty crappy. The two free scientists can give you a nice science push later in the game though, especially if relying on representation.

    The start:



    Two clams, it's a shame we don't start with fishing. Ivory is always really nice to start with, letting you grow your cities earlier. Good thing Russia starts with hunting. A pretty decent start with a good amount of forests.

    Map is:
    Spoiler :

    Temperate fractal, that's pretty much the norm from now on.


    Huts and Events are OFF, add events in the custom scenario if you wish. (just make sure to cover the top part with your hand so you don't see the AIs :p)

    And a cut-and-paste from Meatbuster's Monarch Student games:

    Save the file and place it in your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then unzip it into your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Then use Playing a scenario to play your desired level. Or use custom scenario if you want to remove huts and/or events.

    Recommended Checkpoints:
    *1000BC or 1AD
    *500AD
    *1000AD or Liberalism
    *Victory!

    Please remember to put the journals of your adventures inside spoiler tags.

    For Monarch+ players please try to add archery back to the barbs in WB. If you don't, AIs will capture cities with archers very early in the game, which is no fun. If you prefer easymode barbs, that's fine too, just don't go wondering why an AI captured a barb city in the very early BCs!

    Thanks go to TMIT for making an excellent map creation guide and to mjg5591 for getting this series back on track!

    And finally, the save!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    Very nice. Ok start, will play once I wrap up an earth game.
     
  3. ahmedhadzi

    ahmedhadzi Relocation Consultant

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    First time I decided I will try this, my computer burned down, but I will look for others progress, and I hope TMIT will do video of this one as well.

    And looks as pretty strong start

    Good luck to all!
     
  4. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Immortal/normal to 1 AD

    Spoiler :


    Settled in place, and got an extra plains cow. Nice. Met people early and got the good city spots I wanted that I COULD get. The northern clam/horse would have been good to get, but I'm ok with that. I have five cities settled, but can settled a couple more marginal ones. I'm going to be a small empire though.

    Sometimes I love being philosophical:



    Nice to get a later taoism.

    Current empire:



    Moscow will make a strong bureau capital and the southern city and the eastern one (forget names :lol:) will make good cottage sites. I think I will shoot for kremlin this game to make cottaging really strong. Doing decently I think, I am on par in tech but behind in city count. Hammu is getting dogpiled by Williem and GK. Pacal is the lone buddhist, but everybody else is Jewish.


     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Wow...I'm not close to finishing Biz, but I'm gonna start this one anyway

    By the way, how do you add Archery back without seeing the map or what is the process. Barbs without Archery was a bit of a problem in Biz on emperor.
     
  6. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Immortal/normal to liberalism

    Spoiler :


    Even though I'm philosophical, the only bulb towards liberalism was the philosophy bulb. Oh well, I still win it :p



    Take printing press to power up cottages. I'm straight shotting communism, then democracy. After that it's a matter of beelining to infantry and artillery to smash the world. If I don't get Kremlin, workshop spam is always an option.

    Current Empire:



    Cottages are developing nicely, the southern city is really production poor, but come democracy it will be a monster. I think the game looks good for now. I wish I would have leveraged philosophical more though, it would have probably allowed me to get something like sci method or even communism itself from it.


     
  7. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    No way without seeing map. I zoom in all the way, enter worldbuilder, cover minimap with your hand and go to the civ selection. Cover that and hit down like 20 times. Hit enter. Go to technologies and add archery. Exit worldbuilder. You don't see the AIs this way and it keeps the map blind.
     
  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    thanks, i'll try that.
     
  9. Treso

    Treso Warlord

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    Went a try in monarch. Just added archery and hunting to barbs before starting.

    Spoiler :
    This first try I just gived up after genghis and orange ganked me. Genghis keeped attacking me with Pacal almost all the time, even with a huge defensive army they keep trying to kill me!



    4000BC
    Spoiler :

    Settled in place


    2040BC

    Spoiler :
    Found some AIs.
    Tech tree and my empire in this turn.



    1000BC
    Spoiler :

    Building the GS to bubble techs. And 4 cities (3 + capital)




    775BC
    Spoiler :
    My first GS spawned. Bubble math. I just wanna know if it is recommended or i need to keep him to bubble something better?



    225BC

    Spoiler :
    Genghis dont give me a freaking time to breath. He wanna kill me any way he could. I saw hes sneaking attack and whipped some archers/axes to defend myself.




    100AD

    Spoiler :
    Genghis got stomped in my walls and I ask him peace. He gave me a tech!



    400AD

    Spoiler :
    The second GS i keep and the third i bubbled phylo. The wanna I keep I burned him in a GA. During GA I changed to pacifism + caste system and popped more two GSs before GA ends. 1 turn after GA end I completed Civil Service and changed back to slavery+organized+bureocracy.




    After that Pacal and Genghis attacked me many times. They couldnt take any city and Hamurabbi helped me a lot (he were friendly). I got Liberalism and Nationalism. I built the University of Sakore and I was going to finish Democracry (even in war with genghis almost everytime) when Orange attacked me. I surrounded many units in my walls beelining rifles to overpower them. I lose a crappy city and stopped for a while. I dont know if i will restart or i will continue this one.
    Advices please.


    edit: fixing some pictures
     
  10. Xoxsen

    Xoxsen Chieftain

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    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Looking for some advice on how to proceed from here...

    Spoiler :


    Fun map - starting in the middle of everything... Tried to wall off as much of the nice commerce territory (greenland and rivers - yummy) as I could. Did a completely random thing and sent my first settler over to claim the 3 food (2 sea, 1 land) site near GK - probably a mistake, although I haven't as yet been punished for it. Basically, at 720AD, I've expanded my empre to this point - 7 cities with GK to the NW, Hammy to the E (shielding me from WvO - and possible some other AI's). Pacal to the south.



    Here is my tech position (no polytheism, monotheism or HBR for the techs off the chart to the left):



    Here is the snapshot of my relations with the AI:



    I've been able to expand and lock up a lot of the nice territory. I even have more space to expand to the North, although I'll be playing Twister with GK if I do, with multiples of each of our cities tangled amongst each other. My tech is trailing, but it doesn't look too tragic, especially since my commerce engine is starting to come online. Adopting hinduism, which everyone but Hammy has - along with giving in to some minor demands - has kept me out of any DoW situation, although it's probably inevitable that Hammy and I will war soonish. (I hope to bring in friends against him if he DoWs me.)

    My question is, is my position reasonable? I expanded like mad, but still could've grabbed even more, but I didn't want to completely crash my economy. Do I go play Twister with GK? Start building cats and go after Hammy? Pacal? GK? I'm curious to get any and all feedback here. Monarchy midgame is where I have my troubles. I tend to expand well, keep tech parity (or even a lead) up until currency and/or CoL, and then it starts to get sour. Eventually, the monarch AI's outtech me, even though I still win the Lib race more than 50% of the time. Thoughts?

    - X

    Game save at 720AD:


     

    Attached Files:

  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I gave up even though I could have won.

    Spoiler :


    Genghis Khan ignored his worst enemy hammurabi to dagger (1 turn war mode) me. He was pleased with me, annoyed w/ hammy.

    Strictly speaking, I could have repelled the invasion as I had a decent count of axes, but I'd have lost a city and it also lost me some trades I was relying on.

    I'm sorry, but I've played too many games to put up with faulty BS. I really hate extra low-odds DoWs...each turn he rolled war he was almost guaranteed to to roll a war on hammy as we only bordered about 10 turns leading up to the war. After that, he was STILL significantly more likely to pick someone annoyed (A value above his annoyed nowarprob but below his pleased).

     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    @TMIT
    Spoiler :
    Actually had a somewhat similar BS thing happen to me tonight (Emperor/Epic). I was able to grab a good bit of land and cozy up to Pacal (always a freakin tech juggernaut), Ghengis and Willie. I fully expect Hammy (he's Jewish, we're all Hindu) to DOW me at some point and while I was ready for the offensive yet, I knew I could repel him. Meanwhile, Pacal is the AP dude. So Hammy declares, I repel him, I bribe Ghengis into war with Hammy (who hate each other like your game). Ghengis sends a massive stack while I expect a minor counter offensive for the sake of temporary peace and maybe grabbing a city. The turn Ghengis enters Hammy's land, Pacal does something that I think is completely broken with this game. He calls a vote to "End the war against Mongolia". Well, now I'm stuck in a long term war with Hammy since there's no chance for peace for some time - finally we settle for peace in my favor but much damage is done to the game as a whole especially with tech mad Pacal.. But it gets worse, I'm well ahead of Hammy in tech and start amassing troops to take him down. My good luck, Genghis declares on Hammy by himself with an even bigger stack. Again, as he just entering Hammy's land, Pacal calls another vote to "end the War against Mongolia". Complete BS! Game is in the crapper.

    Like you I probably still have a chance in this game, especially taking down Babylonia fairly easily, but it's really not worth at this point.

    In hindsight, I shoulda bee-line ironworking and laid some serious whup-ass on Hammy early. (I just missed the copper to the SE by 1 turn.)
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    @lymond

    Spoiler :


    Using melee vs the babylonian UU is not a good move IMO. You need siege or horse to really do some damage. Well, we do have ivory, so a catapult war is probably the ticket.

    I actually got declared on before I could even get to that!

     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Spoiler :
    Yeah, I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that. I did settle the horses to the east first, so HBR might have been a move, but yeah I really expected a later war and now can run Knights/Trebs on his ass. However, Pacal is already past Lib and I just got Edu in all because I was stuck in this war forever. I have a lot of land though and likely will have Hammy's before all is said and done.
     
  15. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Chapel Hill, NC
    Immortal/normal abandoned (somewhere in the 1800s)

    Spoiler :


    I rifle/cannoned Hammu off the map, but Williem managed to snipe a city at the end. After that I was behind in tech and GK was teching really fast (go figure) I tried to race to the internet for a hope at space but Pacal got it so I gave up.

    In all honesty, I could have slogged it out and tried to win it, but GK was so huge and powerful that'd he win anyway. He was tops in tech and has 4x my power. Williem was shooting for culture as well, and even if I would have stopped him GK would have won space by then. GK had soo much room to expand and after he caped Pacal it was over. War with him would have been futile, his prod. was several times more than mine. Ah well.

     
  16. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Immortal/Normal 25AD
    Spoiler :

    Went worker first, AH-Fishing.

    Heres what I saw early. 2 great cities to cottage immediately and give me levee later.



    After fishing I went roads so I had my first city hooked up immediately. Started the settler at size 4 after putting out a couple workboats. Here I am after the 2 cities are out. I've already decided to Axe Hammurabi. Did you see his capital??? Thats 11 scientists and we are PHI.



    Axe was viable because of the ability to 2 pop whip in my second city. To start I whip a worker with 1 turn left in order to get 30 hammers into our cheap granary so I have it next turn. In this way I'll be able to start 2 pop whipping axes at size 6 and get 2 axes every 3 turns from this city.



    A little scouting shows Ham can build chariots, though he hasn't built any. Oh yeah and I chose to pick up alphabet first. Pacal and Willem have it already, but the other 2 AIs do not so I should be able to get good stuff. And I'll start on spies. I've got EP concentrated on Pacal.



    I got good trades before attacking Ham. I was going to build an archer or two, but it ended up that 1 spear in the stack was enough.




    He had only 3 bowmen so I attacked over the river. He has another city to the SE I have to take or the culture will take away a banana or even a corn from the cap. But turns out I only lost 3 axe taking the capital so no worries.



    I am able to take his city on the dyes as well. After that he won't talk to me still... I burn a bunch of turns and eventually get peace, but am unable to grab monarchy or calendar as I don't have a high enough war score! Luckily Willem and Pacal don't have CoL so I'll trade for both... Oh wait Willem gets it the turn before I do and trades it to Pacal the next turn!! I wasted a turn of beakers into monarchy. Luckily Khan just picked up calendar so a turn into calendar and I am able to trade for it. But that leaves me needing monarchy since I need what 15 pop in Ham's capital to run the 11 scientists?

    I eventually get monarchy 1 AD by stealing it from Pacal. The bowmen didn't stop me from running over Hammy, but 17 axe lost against 13 bowmen killed meant I couldn't take the techs I wanted off him even with 4 cities taken. Then Willem teching CoL put me back quite a bit. Thank God for spies.

    I'm grabbing aesthetics in the hope I can chop parthenon out in Ham's capital to relieve the culture pressure. I want those 2 other 4F tiles. But probably won't work out due to the delay. I should have ran scientists for my first GS earlier. Ghengis just bulb'd philosophy.





    I hate micro:
    Spoiler :

    I reloaded twice over the stupid whip city. I only whipped 5 times for 10 axe but kept messing it up. The 2 pop whip city needed to move on and off the copper so that it could put less than 5 hammers into the axe, 2 pop whip it and then run enough hammers to build another axe the next turn. Simple right? ugh. At least I didn't have to prechop the capital forest or I would have needed another hour and 3 reloads.
     

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  17. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    Philadelphia, PA
    Taking a swing at Immortal/Epic....don't really know if I'm doing well or poorly:
    Spoiler :



    I managed to get 7 decent cities (2 captured barb cities). They are underdeveloped but I've finally gotten a decent worker force out to fix things up. Plan is to move capital to St. Petersburg for cottage power. I have a lot of happy resources coming online and have several trades, so there is a lot of room for vertical growth.

    Tech rate has seemed pretty brutal between Pacal and WvO. WvO bulbed Philo at 800 BC...I'm just not used to that. Everyone has been pretty friendly too so no war to slow things down. Wvo is confucian and everyone else is Hindu.....but it hasn't led to much religious hate.

    I've been trying to research monopoly techs for trades (aesthetics, compass). Unfortunately right now there aren't any monopoly techs. If no one else gets Philosophy, should I look to bulb it and trade it around?



    Diplo is a strong point. Hammy at Friendly, can probably get Pacal there too. Ghengis always makes me a little nervous though.



    Not really sure where to go from here. Any advice would be appreciated. Should I look to get some cottages down and just try to keep up in tech until cannons/rifles?


     

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  18. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Dual -
    Spoiler :

    I'd be afraid of Willem. I know I am in my game. He just started gearing up for war. But you border him, I don't. Not sure its a big enough border to matter??

    But protect yourself in case and just cottage up. I'd probably go for an academy at this point not sure its a big deal since I don't see you racing to anything. You may be able to take some more land if someone attacks Ham..

     
  19. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    Big Time
    Spoiler :

    Use the whip more. I see you building a granary late somewhere you should have been whipping.

    I'd have tried to get 2 cities on the rivers SE. Make sure your opening tech path meant you could get a couple early settlers.
     
  20. BigTime

    BigTime Prince

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    Spoiler :


    That granary was destroyed :( I tried to use the rule to not to whip away cottages. But I guess granaries are so important that that is justified. Yeah, I believe I settled a little too slowly, but I was afraid of crashing my economy. Still getting used to Immortal, I guess.

     

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