Monarch Students game - climbing from Prince

[Ramesses-Rules]

I had an interesting starting position in today's game. I like to locate the horses and build my second city there so that I can have War Chariots early to fend off barbarians. The alternative, which I should have taken, was to build the Great Wall to push the barbarians away. It took only 10 turns, and I still had time to build Artemis and Parthenon right after it. It was a big waste to build my second city in a comparatively crappy spot just to get horses quickly. Lesson learned.

I am stuck on an island with A. Caesar in this game. I gave him my religion, so he is pleased with me. All religions are founded now, and I have three of them, so I can probably keep us matched on religion. Consequently, I am using my light military strategy and cranking wonders like crazy, while he is -- true to form -- building a huge military. Per my usual strategy, I plan to have him as my defender by the time the other civs arrive.

Taking your advice, I will beef-up my border cities with him. We don't want him getting any wild ideas.

Yesterday, I had the Zulu guy attack me late, and three civs went to my defense against him! They were still kicking his butt when I quit the game. I'd rather make friends than wars.

 

[Gumbolt]

I wouldnt like to leave ceaser over powerful. Some leaders will attack you even under pleased.

Great wall isnt a must. If your borders are close to the sea and you are near an Ai like Romans then barbs shouldnt be a huge issue.

As for Egyptians and wonders. I wouldnt get over carried away wonder spamming. Build the wonders you need. If you have stone or marble this may influence you. if you are going for wonder spamming as part of a GP farm thats another matter.

Generally if you are on a island on your own you can afford to let your military go. If I am on a continent with an Ai I will try to at least make sure my military is 50-60% min of a rival AI. Ideally I would like my military to be larger.

If you want proper advice post a game around 1ad on the forum.

You'll only really learn the game if you player different leaders with different traits.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I usually try for Stonehenge, Artemis, and Panthenon to generate early GPs in my capital. By running at least two priest specialists when I am not building a wonder, I can usually beat everybody to found Christianity and Islam. I use my three founded religions to create culture building in my three cities designated for Lengendary status.

Once I found Islam, I turn off the priests and run scientists to improve research. I won't get to Liberalism as fast as you do, but feel that is compensated by my strength in religion, which generates lots of culture even before I get to Liberalism, and I use religions to manage diplomacy.

Question: Going for Culture Victory, I seem to have difficulty judging when is the optimal time to jump over to researching the Alphabet, Literature, Drama, Music tech tree. Seems that sometimes I do it too early and slip too far behind on economy or military as a result. Other times, I start too late and lose close races in wonder building up that channel, especially on Monarch level. I especially like to target the two wonders enabled by Nationalism. Any suggestions?

 

[Gumbolt]

Long as you have bronze working or HBR why should you neglect your military?

If you go the Priest route and keep adding them to your capital and build angor watt you have a strong production house.

I dont know why you avoid top half of the tech tree. The Ai normally researches most of the bottom half anyway.

Stuff like Sailing and the GLH I could not live without. You need alphabet to trade techs anyway. Literature gives you the National epic too for GP farm. Much cheaper than the parthernon!!

I am not sure about mixing GP and GS. If you go for a strategy stick with it. Thebes could be the production house of the world.

 

[Gumbolt]

If I was going for a wonder spam I might do something like this.

My only downfall was I didnt hook up the stone and nab pyramids. I was able to add 2 priests to my capital early. While my capital was busy building wonders my other cities were building granaries, settlers, workers and eventually chariots.

I am somewhat in trouble as i have 9 cities and a low tax rate and no pyramids. Ooops. i do have a great spy to use. (this was using Emperer level/

 

[Gumbolt]

As for my Egyptian test game 400ad. If you can build 5-6+ wonders in your capital and hook up marble and stone you will have a powerful GP farm. My GP farm is up to 130 GPPts per turn. Unfortunately I have had 2 scientist and 2 great spies. I really need a priest!!

On the plus side I managed to build 9 stables and was given 9 free horses. i rolled over the Celts and took one indian city before he was vasseled.

I really should hook up the stone.

 

[Soirana]

Spoiler :

Keep in mind I am having good time at emperor and more or less think monarch games on starting moment. But some complained it is hard map so i gave it a try...

Very soon

Honestly i would rush Rome on any given day. And Kubla is not that bad guy.

And i had a temptation

Well, it took bloody ages while he took peace. At least that worker built highway to Rome which meant my chariots will hop from my culture into his in one turn. That happened later and meanwhile:

There was no big point to grow capital yet.

I skipped idea to get gold in second ring and instead found horse city to share some tiles with capital to allow use all food (later that city will have to live on rice)

2000BC i redeclared at Rome. I found an axe and spear in there and suspicious 5 hammer mine... Well, i had thought of that being tin event, but as Rome was mine mine went down in hammers, so... Luckily AI defensive unit ideas does not included praetorians.

Meanwhile i chopped a bit more and

While glorious chariots

I proceeded with Oracle

I took Metal casting for fast forges.
My rivals were having lots of stupid ideas about me closing borders an alike. I sent them all to hell hoping someone declares at me while...

I claimed other gold. And blocked quite a chunk of land while puting some forests for a good use again

A bit late but i had no stone. I also had very nice event

245BC Izzy threatened for MC. I told her no and suddenly she had full hands.
125BC silver pops up in Antium
Meanwhile i traded a bit. Not all these were bad deals

I wondered why i teched Aesthetics at all, situation at AD:

500hundred years later Izzy showed her full hands

Unluckily she brought swords onto maces and xbows.
370AD she declared and that stack went into Kubla's land. I used chance for...

I never saw that stack again. And neither the one of Kubla's. I stole Calendar from Kubla and decided he was not to cooperative anyway. And i had to use all trebs and maces...
580AD

Well, it was actually Izzy which wiped of Kubla's last city at 820AD. I was laready teching Liberalism and they never made peace after that bribe.

I regrouped and attacked her. There was some contraattack in jungle city

Madrid changed owner non less than three times. But spanish war did not lasted that long.

Probably that would be faster if i had not built half world wonders
On other hand at times i was unable to have even 0 percent research slider. Ofcourse i was using SE and could jump to caste and merchants if strike would be appproaching.

Besides wonders i built another stack for bull. While my southeren army was under shower of Bulls cats northern one used fact i spammed courthourses, few revolts made all the longbows not so bad.
Soon...

As said still minus ten percent of land and i started doubt in my evaluation that this continent had just enough land. So i built Sistine run caste for artists in newly found jungle city's while most of cities built either wealth or culture.
Finally...

I had twelve unclaimed land squares. But never met guys on other continent.

Overall ideas about map:
A+ quality of land, A quality leader in not so good geopolitical situation. The neighbors are jerks and religions went not so nicely.
Nice map if you know that you want to do and that happens to be aggressive game. Probably not recommended for training purpose.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Long as you have bronze working or HBR why should you neglect your military?

If you go the Priest route and keep adding them to your capital and build angor watt you have a strong production house.

I dont know why you avoid top half of the tech tree. The Ai normally researches most of the bottom half anyway.

Stuff like Sailing and the GLH I could not live without. You need alphabet to trade techs anyway. Literature gives you the National epic too for GP farm. Much cheaper than the parthernon!!

I am not sure about mixing GP and GS. If you go for a strategy stick with it. Thebes could be the production house of the world.

I see from your screen shot that you and I use the GPs differently. You leave them in the cities and I bulb them to discover religions until I found Islam. Only then do I consider keeping them. You use them to fund your economy and add production in the capital. That gives you the money to build a bigger military than I can afford. It lets you jump on the path to Music faster than me, too, because you can afford to delay researching stuff like Calendar, Currency, Courthouse to sustain the economy. I think I will try that and see how it works compared to discovering 3-4 religions early. Thanks.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

Keep in mind I am having good time at emperor and more or less think monarch games on starting moment. But some complained it is hard map so i gave it a try...

Very soon

Honestly i would rush Rome on any given day. And Kubla is not that bad guy.

And i had a temptation

Well, it took bloody ages while he took peace. At least that worker built highway to Rome which meant my chariots will hop from my culture into his in one turn. That happened later and meanwhile:

There was no big point to grow capital yet.

I skipped idea to get gold in second ring and instead found horse city to share some tiles with capital to allow use all food (later that city will have to live on rice)

2000BC i redeclared at Rome. I found an axe and spear in there and suspicious 5 hammer mine... Well, i had thought of that being tin event, but as Rome was mine mine went down in hammers, so... Luckily AI defensive unit ideas does not included praetorians.

Meanwhile i chopped a bit more and

While glorious chariots

I proceeded with Oracle

I took Metal casting for fast forges.
My rivals were having lots of stupid ideas about me closing borders an alike. I sent them all to hell hoping someone declares at me while...

I claimed other gold. And blocked quite a chunk of land while puting some forests for a good use again

A bit late but i had no stone. I also had very nice event

245BC Izzy threatened for MC. I told her no and suddenly she had full hands.
125BC silver pops up in Antium
Meanwhile i traded a bit. Not all these were bad deals

I wondered why i teched Aesthetics at all, situation at AD:

500hundred years later Izzy showed her full hands

Unluckily she brought swords onto maces and xbows.
370AD she declared and that stack went into Kubla's land. I used chance for...

I never saw that stack again. And neither the one of Kubla's. I stole Calendar from Kubla and decided he was not to cooperative anyway. And i had to use all trebs and maces...
580AD

Well, it was actually Izzy which wiped of Kubla's last city at 820AD. I was laready teching Liberalism and they never made peace after that bribe.

I regrouped and attacked her. There was some contraattack in jungle city

Madrid changed owner non less than three times. But spanish war did not lasted that long.

Probably that would be faster if i had not built half world wonders
On other hand at times i was unable to have even 0 percent research slider. Ofcourse i was using SE and could jump to caste and merchants if strike would be appproaching.

Besides wonders i built another stack for bull. While my southeren army was under shower of Bulls cats northern one used fact i spammed courthourses, few revolts made all the longbows not so bad.
Soon...

As said still minus ten percent of land and i started doubt in my evaluation that this continent had just enough land. So i built Sistine run caste for artists in newly found jungle city's while most of cities built either wealth or culture.
Finally...

I had twelve unclaimed land squares. But never met guys on other continent.

Overall ideas about map:
A+ quality of land, A quality leader in not so good geopolitical situation. The neighbors are jerks and religions went not so nicely.
Nice map if you know that you want to do and that happens to be aggressive game. Probably not recommended for training purpose.

Nice win. If i had realised I didnt need to invade the other continent i might of done the same. I am not sure the point on continents where you can win by invading 3-4 neighbours. Its effectively making it a 5 Ai game. What was your score?

I think this does go to show an early aggressive start pays off on monarch.

 

[Gumbolt]

I see from your screen shot that you and I use the GPs differently. You leave them in the cities and I bulb them to discover religions until I found Islam. Only then do I consider keeping them. You use them to fund your economy and add production in the capital. That gives you the money to build a bigger military than I can afford. It lets you jump on the path to Music faster than me, too, because you can afford to delay researching stuff like Calendar, Currency, Courthouse to sustain the economy. I think I will try that and see how it works compared to discovering 3-4 religions early. Thanks.

To be fair out of the 15 or so great people I have had so far up to 1425ad.

I dumped 2 great spies in Ai cities. I have used 3 Great Priests in holy cities for shrines. I used a great artist for Islam. I used a great engineer for a wonder. (vers.)

The 5 great priests added 10 production to the base production rate. If you factor in stone 100%/industrious trait 50% wonders/ bureaucracy 50% and other bonuses that 10 soon multiplies into 20-30 a turn. i may have used a great merchant for currency too.

Unfortunately by building all the wonders in one city I wasnt able to just build great priests. I am maintaining 149 GPPoints per turn after building 10+ wonders. Parh/ pacifism all included.

Its fair to say my capital has produced almost nothing but wonders.

 

[Soirana]

Nice win. If i had realised I didnt need to invade the other continent i might of done the same. I am not sure the point on continents where you can win by invading 3-4 neighbours. Its effectively making it a 5 Ai game. What was your score?

I think this does go to show an early aggressive start pays off on monarch.

above 250K. Sits in first place on my PC.

 

[Gumbolt]

Hmmm my test game for a wonder spam seems to be going well. Up to 1700ad. I have run out of wonders to build. Having to use capital to build units in 1-2 turns. cannons/ rifles etc.

I think Thebes will reach legendary status in less than 35 turns. Shame i didnt go for the cultural win. Hmmmmm. probably get a space or domination win. My army is largest on map by 50%.

250k score on monarch is impressive.

Didnt know the scoring went that high on monarch. Gotta stop playing huge maps.

 

[Gumbolt]

Its about 1842 on my Emperor game i set up as a test. Just got a domination win. Industrial leader played right on emperor are hugely powerful. For a first emperor win that aint bad.

I got an event in Thebes as it was just off a legendary city. Free great artist. All in all I spammed about 14-15 wonders in Thebes and took out 3-5 Ai.

In all honesty i could of easily had a cultural/space/un victory. I was about 60-70 points off UN victory. I was 6-7 techs ahead of all the other Ai near the end. I was teching over 2-3k science beakers a turn at 60% science.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Nice win. If i had realised I didnt need to invade the other continent i might of done the same. I am not sure the point on continents where you can win by invading 3-4 neighbours. Its effectively making it a 5 Ai game.

With continents sometimes it's a 1 AI game. I've been in continents games with a huge land mass and it's just me and Monty duking it out, we backward warmongers... and then playing gigantic tech catch-up when one of the six AIs overseash shows up in frigates trying not to laugh at our bold, brave, triremes.

Next phase of that is to go warmongering yet again when the cities spammed by the AI from overseas fill the gaps of what you thought you'd save money on by razing during the war.

Eventually you catch up (land being, after all, power), but after all that warring it's sometimes just a welcome break to focus on a space race instead of filling up transports and building carriers, and such.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I just saw this suggestion...

"Make a bee-line for Communism as soon as you can. Make sure your bank account's fat by the time you get there (keep the slider down a bit the last few turns to make sure you have heaps of money when you get the tech). Rush the Kremlin when you get it, and set your research to 0% the next turn. Set all your cities to start building financial buildings, and on the following turn rush those too, taking advantage of the new cheaper cost. Keep the tech slider at 0% for as long as you're comfortable to maximize your cash and buy, buy, buy!"

Have you guys ever used this technique in a Monarch game?


 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I am really getting paranoid now. In today's game, Wang had Buddism and I had Christianity. He had converted two other civs. Khan was the only one on our continent uncommitted. He was the military leader and "annoyed" with Wang. If I could have converted him to Christianity, we would have had Wang flanked on two sides in a feudal war. On the VERY turn that I had my missionary poised in his city to spread Christianity to Khan, he converted to Buddism. Rats!! I plugged the plug.

 

[Gumbolt]

I am really getting paranoid now. In today's game, Wang had Buddism and I had Christianity. He had converted two other civs. Khan was the only one on our continent uncommitted. He was the military leader and "annoyed" with Wang. If I could have converted him to Christianity, we would have had Wang flanked on two sides in a feudal war. On the VERY turn that I had my missionary poised in his city to spread Christianity to Khan, he converted to Buddism. Rats!! I plugged the plug.

Not tried the communism beeline. I would hope to have banks etc by then.

Spreading religion and making it work is never a definate thing. The Ai seem to switch as they please. Having your own religion is not always a happy affair.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I have noticed! I often try to monopolize as many religions as possible all the way to Islam and then send plenty of missionaries into my key ally. That usually keeps him on my side the whole game, and even if he switches, I can switch with him. That has worked very well for me at lower levels, but I may have to give it up at Monarch.

Yes, I was a little skeptical about the communism ploy myself....just curious whether anyone else has tested it.

 

[Single Malt]

Ram Rules, its solid play to entirely forgo the three early religions, as the ai getting them can foster religious wars, slowing down the world tech pace. It also allows you to choose your allies by adopting their religion.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Ram Rules, its solid play to entirely forgo the three early religions, as the ai getting them can foster religious wars, slowing down the world tech pace. It also allows you to choose your allies by adopting their religion.

I think I need to junk my pre-Monarch style of play. I have always founded 3 or 4 religions. It gives you money, culture, production speed (with OR), and diplomatic leverage/flexibility. However, I am sure that ignoring religion early allows for faster expansion. In my current game, I have other civs jammed up against me, and I will have to go to war with somebody just to have space to lay out my six cities. I do not like to have to play that way.