Monarch too easy, Emperor too hard?

TylerD

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
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U.K.
I'm having trouble adjusting from Monarch to Emperor.

I can beat Monarch pretty much every time, with every leader I've tried. I can't get it going on Emperor though. Common problems I encounter:

- get declared war on before I have the chance to declare war.
- get massively out-teched and therefore struggle when trying to expand through war.


Any tips on the transition? Thanks.
 
I'm having trouble adjusting from Monarch to Emperor.

I can beat Monarch pretty much every time, with every leader I've tried. I can't get it going on Emperor though. Common problems I encounter:

- get declared war on before I have the chance to declare war.
- get massively out-teched and therefore struggle when trying to expand through war.


Any tips on the transition? Thanks.

play a "harder monarch", like agressive AIs on + a common leader (=not augustus) + a common start (= no regeneration),
then an "easier emperor", like archipelago with a financial civ.
Should help.

IMHO, monarch to emperor is all about diplomacy.
 
I'm having trouble adjusting from Monarch to Emperor.

I can beat Monarch pretty much every time, with every leader I've tried. I can't get it going on Emperor though. Common problems I encounter:

- get declared war on before I have the chance to declare war.
- get massively out-teched and therefore struggle when trying to expand through war.


Any tips on the transition? Thanks.

Try to play a game on Monarch with tech-trade off it can be very teachful, at least it was for me and good indicator are you ready to be an emperor or not and I think it's not shame to regenerate your start on Emperor all happiness resources can help you big time. Like gold and fur that's 2 with market 1 more from fur.

I like to start product unit asap when I find my second city and I don't stop until I have a stack of 8 units. So, if somebody declares on you, you are
ready if you lose now not much you can do you made your best.

About teching, 3 happiness can make things hard. I haven't tried this but I'm going to try in next game to rely on scientist and see how it goes. 3 happiness just doesn't give you enough of citizens to work cottages in my opinion but one good food tile can you allow to run 2 scientist so I find it quite essential that you can find your first cities with food resources and what also help you with whippin.
 
Have you checked out the EMC threads by Aelf, who played on Emperor level? I thought the games were very instructive.
 
If you meant me, yes, it's now very easy to understand how Aelf is playing like he is as you see it on eye to eye, 3 happiness is a *****.

EDIT: And not to mention all the other bonuses what AI gets like faster research with 3 happiness.
 
you need to increase those happiness caps ASAP. Get luxury resources, be a charismatic leader or beeline monarchy. Try reading either the emperor or immortal domination victory games by pete2006. He has huge cities very early.
 
Immortal easy, deity too hard. Tried to mod the game, just to leave Ai's with only one setler, and give myself worker and defense units, but could not achieve that. I can imagine people who start game on tundra and to south, east and west is ice. And I very curious how they can beat deity in that conditions. Personally I have not met that person yet. Maybe there is no such person :mad:
 
When I want to level up, I start on small pangaea maps. The early game plays out a lot like standard continents would, but you're guaranteed four neighbors to support tech trading and anyone you need to kill will be close at hand. There's no "other continent" to run away with the game before you can reach them.

peace,
lilnev
 
I found emperor very difficult in the beginning, but as Cabert said, you can make the transition easier by taking it in stages through manipulation of the map/leader. For example, I got my first emperor win on Vanilla 1.61 by using Caesar on a Pangaea map. Seems almost like cheating now.
 
Keeping up with tech: get necessary worker techs, beeline to CoL or drama (Oracle can get early CoL), generate a great scientist to lightbulb philosophy (amke sure you have mathematics and meditation first), beeline to education, lightbulb some of education with another GS and win the liberalism race. Philosophy, Paper, Education and Liberalism are all very tradable techs. To get a fast second GS, switch to pacifism. (Constrtuction may be necessary for catapults). If you get currency through early trade you can get quite a lot of trade gold and run 100% science (at large deficits) most of the way to Liberalism.

Important thing is to make sure you have some trading partners so watch the diplomacy situation is essential. Also, a couple of cities with good food is great from running scientists. The Great Library also helps.

(Btw, it is possible to just keep tech parity without following this beeline.)

Civs declaring war early: know your neighbours. If you have Monte, you need to cripple him early. Alex? Do the same or make him your friend and bribe him to attack someone else. Check diplomacy regularly. If someone has too much on their hands, you know they are preparing for war (unless they are already at war). If you think you are their target, scout out their territory, work out which troops you may need in your border cities.
 
Here are some things I had to learn when moving from monarch to emperor:

City maintenance starts to become a more serious problem. Sometimes simply founding a 2nd or 3rd city can really hit your tech rate and at times it can be good to delay it a few turns while clearing some important techs. Unless of course there is a gold mine or other easily obtainable commerce resource nearby :). The AI will use this tactic as well. Also when I first started on emperor I would always assign the first city pop to work a cottage for every city I would conquer as well as my own. This should help you out until you get better at managing the higher penalties. Alternatively if you are playing a financial civ on the coast, simply building a 2nd city asap and working the 1f/3 c coastal tiles can provide a commerce/science boost as you overcome the maintenance costs immediately.

The happiness caps are a huge problem. You might want to go a bit easier on the whip if you are a big slavery fan. If you have a pop 3 city working 1 farm, 2 mines and you whip once you've just cut your production in half for the next 10-30 turns depending on game speed. Pay close attention to which tiles are being worked.

The city auto governor is generally your enemy. It can be better to turn it off and manually control which tiles are being worked. I check all my cities every few turns to make sure all my peasants are in line with what they are supposed to be doing :). Also when your city grows the governor naturally assigns the new citizen to a particular tile. This can be manipulated by using the emphasize buttons to get the auto assignment to (generally) do what you want in case you forget to check the city immediately after it grows.

City specialization. If you aren't already doing this you need to decide which roles certain cities will play based on the available terrain and then only build those buildings which are appropriate.

Also as discussed diplomacy and tech trading are huge. Beelining certain techs and then back trading the rest is pretty important. For example pulling an Oracle->MC slingshot will pretty much guarantee you will get every other tech you skipped in trade using MC. If you manage to pull a tech lead sometimes you can run 100% science deficit spending nearly the entire game and generate cash by selling your techs.

Running a specialist economy can be a huge early game boost. As was pointed out it only takes 3 pop (the happiness cap) to work 1 improved fish tile and run 2 scientists for 6 beakers/turn or 12 beakers/turn with Representation. Run the caste system system and build a lighthouse and you are looking at 9-18 beakers/turn (sans building bonuses) all for the cost of working 1 tile and a population of only 4. This makes those otherwise useless desert/tundra wastelands mini science gold mines if there is even 1 seafood resource off the coast. You don't even need a library with the cast system, just build the city, improve the food resource and go! In this particular case tile overlap is a non issue as well. It does not matter if I build another city 2 tiles away from the last one to reduce maintenance costs if I only need to work 1 tile to run it.

Cut corners with your workers. Remember that rivers count as a trade network so if your capital is along a river you simply need to build a road from your new city to the closest point on that river to connect them and generate an initial 1c/turn in trade route income. An alternative is to place subsequent cities along the same river if possible, which can delay the immediate need to build a road or even research the wheel tech.

Also discussed was knowing your neighbors. Knowing the different AI personalities and their tendencies is very important. Every time I meet Monty as my neighbor the first thought that goes through my head is 'OK you die first, just give me a minute' following my alt-click for all cities, queue melee units and look around for my copper :).

I've also found aggressive queue swapping to be rather important. Actually I would say this made the biggest difference in the game for me. For example, by chopping your settlers and workers you will not only speed up their build times but you will minimize the stunting of your town growth. Build a warrior or archer while chopping and push the settler or worker to the top of the queue when the chop is due. This is hard to beat as you will likely end up with both protective units and settlers completing at the same time and ahead of schedule in addition to growing your city. With a low happiness cap it's absolutely crucial to bring all of your population online as quickly as possible. This is especially true if you are going to make a run for a wonder. When going for a wonder with a cap of 4 in your capital you want to try and shoot for 1 improved food tile and 3 mines if at all possible and adjust your workers and techs accordingly. With AQS you can even start building a wonder while sending your chops to a settler. Very useful to keep from stifling expansion.

Pre-chopping forests can be a huge benefit to give an immediate influx of hammers for a wonder or other important building (ie. a forge to bring an engineer online to generate a GE); however be careful if you are a clear cutter. Watch out for the new health handicaps as they can really ruin your day if you aren't paying attention. Also since the hammer bonus from forests increases over time with the appropriate tech it is sometimes advantageous not to improve every tile if it's not being worked. This will allow the forests to grow back if you didn't clear cut, which can be a nice benefit later.

Pre-improvement of tiles can sometimes be useful. If your worker is busy building a mine with 1 turn left and a barb pops up who will likely pillage it, abort your worker action and send him home until the barb is dealt with. You can then return to the mine and finish it in the same turn, which could save you a lot of precious early worker turns.

I hope that information helps. Welcome to the Emperor club :).
 
we're currently running an emperor domination succession game. all of us registered so far are in your situation. feel free to join up!!! we should learn a lot this game...there will be heavy emphasis on discussion :) (link in sig)
 
Thanks for all your advice guys, will try to implement these ideas next time I play.

I think part of the problem is that the adjustment I made from Prince to Monarch was to use the whip more, seems I might need to tone that down now! :D

I've tried all the "easy" options by the way (e.g. Brennus, small Pangaea, regenerating the map ad inifitum ;)), still haven't managed to break through yet though.

Oh BTW future, I think I've turned off sigs can you post a link? Cheers.
 
(Btw, it is possible to just keep tech parity without following this beeline.)

Sure it is, just picks tech to research which the AI doesnt often bother with immediatly, philo, astronomy etc. blakes mod has altered this slightly but not hugely. Another problem with that beeline is the resulting free tech is often fairly crap or PP.

Also the obvious answer is to just pick techs the other AI doesnt have, this is where a specialist economy past emporer can be really helpful as you can judge what techs to lightbulb, which would be more helpfull in trading etc. Though of course if you do have 5/6 GS handy it is nice to bulb all the way to liberalism.
 
That's exactly what I was saying: it IS possible to just keep tech parity without following that beeline.

Btw, I have rarely found the free tech crappy. Nationalism is awesome to draft a quick army. If you are isolated (no fighting to do) then I can often pick up Astronomy.
 
That's exactly what I was saying: it IS possible to just keep tech parity without following that beeline.

Btw, I have rarely found the free tech crappy. Nationalism is awesome to draft a quick army. If you are isolated (no fighting to do) then I can often pick up Astronomy.


Ah for some reason i misread it as a question :crazyeye:, its a worthwhile free tech indeed but sometimes its better to run the risk of missing lib and getting something like democracy/constitution.
 
I am having the same problem with Emperor level. I play with no tech trading so my attempts may be futile as that ups the difficulty level atleast another level.

My only wins on Emperor have come with Huayna Capac and his early Quecha rush which nets me free workers and a few free cities.

Any attempts to play a longer game on Emperoro finds me falling behind in tech and eventually falling to an attack by the AI and their vassal minions!
 
I have played Emperor less than one week and I have won one by Diplomatic Victory and very positive about my current game too. Early rush is definitely the key and what I want to say is that you don't need Quecha for it. Biggest thing for me from Monarch to Emperor was that you need tons of units on Monarch you could start with 2-3 unit per city and one stack of 10 units but on Emperor 2-3 units per city and TWO stack of 10 units thus you need two unit factory to start not only one when I started to do this I'm doing a lot better.

Only good conclusion what I have find for falling behind in tech is to keep attacking, don't forget to build tons of workers too, and hope you catch up later what happens surprisingly easy.
 
I am having the same problem with Emperor level. I play with no tech trading so my attempts may be futile as that ups the difficulty level atleast another level.

From Emperor up, I'd say No Tech Trading has the effect of more than a level; proper beelining and trading is the primary way to achieve tech parity. I suppose if you wage some really good early wars you *might* be okay, but otherwise, I have a feeling it'd be very difficult (perhaps doable with the right start and civ) to keep up manually.
 
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