Monarch vs Emperor levels

[King Flyboy]

I'm at a frustrating stage where I find Monarch too easy, and Emperor impossible to compete with AI on technology.

I swear, I was three turns into a game when a AI scout cruised up. I opened dialogue, and the bugger already had about 6 advances. A few turns later, when my first warrior about four turns old, the AI's got with 3 regular warriors, an archer, and two workers.

Obvioulsy the difficulty level means more 'cheating' at the outset. But I find that on Emperor, I'm constantly behind 5-6 advances, which means I never get the decent wonders, if any.

I've been playing Civ since the first release in the 90s. I figure I manage my resources pretty well . . . so it's not a matter of not maximizing my science output.

Advice? Thoughts?

 

[Roderick]

I haven't played an emporer level game myself, so this advice may not be correct. It sounds like the AI has found eachother pretty quickly and done their trading (plus probably popped some tech goody huts). Maybe change the size of the world bigger, and it will take a little longer for the AI to find eachother to start trading with eachother.

 

[Steffo]

My strategy for winning on emperor is depending on the following:

1. Good starting location. Restart until you get it.

2. You need to wipe out your nearest neighbour to ensure future expansion and territory. The Aztecs are great for this, an early Jag rush...

3. Always beeline for Great Library, make sure you get it so you can keep up with the AI's tech research. I have got the GrLi first the last couple of times I've played. It seems like the AI is going for other techs.

4. Start your second war by the time you get knights or cavalry. Make sure to win.

After completing all the above steps I'm usually the most powerful Civ around, and after that it's rather easy to win.

 

[Neomega]

I always play as emperor, my only advice is to role play hardore.

If you are militaristic, be at constant war, and do not rest.
bee-line for Monarchy

If you are expansionist, build scouts, and trade technologies as much as posiible early in the game, good deal or not get techs. Also build settlers throughout the first two eras.
Monarchy

If you are religious or scientific, go for the techs that'll get you those buildings, and build them for the doubling culture bonus.
Republic

Commercial... trade trade trade. republic is prolly best.

Industrious, use to complement your other trait.

 

[kb2tvl]

First, that ai might have had neighbors to trade with or they had a neighbor and scored a goodie hut with a tech. The expansionistic trait is very fast and more so on higher levels.

 

[Trev]

I always play Emperor level, except when I am mad enough to play deity and get slaughtered. I can usually win at Emperor level.

my first advice is - do not be concerned about getting wonders, I very rarely build any early in the game, only in the late game ie late 3rd age of final age will I be sufficiently advanced in technology to build wonders. An exception to this is if a leader is generated and a suitable wonder can be built.

Maintain a moderately powerful military force, this is important as a deterrent to a sneak attack. If you desire to attack,attack also, but only declare war through the diplomatic screen to avoid damaging your reputationand make sure it does not cause any trade deals to be aborted. Cancel any existing trade deals first.

Use minimum science only up to middle of 3rd age, ie usually 1 specialist scientist, but very early in game 20% science reducing to 10% after about 15 turns. Buy your techs with money. Research techs ai's avoid (polytheism, currency, maybe literacy).

My preference is to go to Republic government asap, and then democracy, generally make offensive wars short and fierce, this avoids excessive WW, in defensive wars use bombardment units to damage the ai's offensive units prior to attacking with an offensive unit so that losses are kept to an absolute miniumum. Do not leave units in ai's territory during a defensive war.

Be willing to use the whip in depotism, particularly if luxuries are available, to build temples and libraries quickly and some defensive units also if necessary. This keeps your culture competitive and military strength competitive also. Generally wait 20 turns between episodes of whipping to avoid excessive unhappiness.

Expand your territory as quickly as possible through the founding of cities, only stop when all vacant land has been occupied, maybe build granary in a city with a good food source to maximise its growth and therefore it's ability to supply settlers

 

[budweiser]

I agree with Trev about everything except the science. I think you need healthy research. Founding cities on rivers helps. The colossus helps more but I never use it. Its nice to get a tech first and trade it around for big gains. If you do it right you can get texh parity or a slight lead once you get to the middle ages.

 

[JustBen]

The research question on the top two difficulty levels is a tricky one. I haven't quite figured out how to make an early game research machine work for me, but one of my friends beat his first Emperor game with research running full-bore the whole game. Your best bet is to try both at some point.

There are a lot of good ideas being tossed around here, so by now you've probably figured out that there's no forumlaic answer to the question. I recommend going back to whatever civ you've found the easiest and most suitable to your personal play style. The exception to this bit of advice is (as kb2tvl quietly noted) to try out Expansionist if you haven't done so yet.

You're going to have to get used to playing from behind. At Monarch level, you're probably used to being at tech parity around the middle (or possibly even the beginning) of the Ancient Era. Forget it. You'll be back up to speed on Emperor eventually, but for now you need to learn how to be behind, what techs you can afford to wait for, and how to use clever trading to get back in the lead. The Ancient Era is your best chance to play around with this idea, since it's very easy to get Swordsmen early and then shift your economy into a wartime mode and extort whatever late-Ancient techs you need from your enemies.

It's not unheard of to be behind the pack all the way to the Industrial Age -- if that happens, learn how to use Theory of Evolution and/or your free Scientific tech to rake in huge amounts of cash and "slingshot" your way to parity or the lead.

Remember that the later the game goes on, the more your advantages as a thinking, human player accumulate. If you can just survive till Tanks, I promise you can win.*

* Promise not valid if Diplomatic Victory is enabled.

 

[zerksees]

My best advice: Read the war academy. Specifically, read this article: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_levels.shtml. I am undefeated at emperor level since adopting the main points of this strategy. War mongering can be fun. Keep an open mind and don't be afraid to modify your strategy.

My next best advice: Go to high score HOF, download games from high scorers and figure out what they did.

Other rambling comments:

No, I do not need to reset starting location with this strategy, this is not necessary to win on emperor.

Yes, I build as many wonders as I can - war creates great leaders that help do this.

No, I did not build great library in my last game, but I took it from one of the AI's. This really helped me catch up in tech mid-game.

Yes, I built the Colossus in my last game - it really helped me keep up with tech in the early game.

Try raging barbarians on monarch - make sure you can handle that before going up a level. Also, put six or seven AI civs in at monarch level. If that doesn't work, use the editor to give the AI some advantage between monarch and emperor.

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by zerksees
No, I did not build great library in my last game, but I took it from one of the AI's. This really helped me catch up in tech mid-game.

That's my favourite strat on emperor/deity too!
IN a recent game I took the GL and it gave me all the techs up to steam power (15 or 16 in total). That was nice!

 

[Knightblade pDM]

I was on a tear when I was playing Monarch, won 9 out every 10 games I played. But now, after playing Emperor, I'm only 1-3, my only win coming culturally, whereas all my Monarch wins were mostly Domination.

 

[handy900]

My 2 cents... I build a load of Artillery & Cavalry. I start pre-builds in the ancient age with horsemen & cats then upgrade later. You can do a lot of damage with minimal losses using a combination of cannon, cavalry & muskets/rifles. I've never won on Emporer other than Domination, even when playing a non militaristic civ. For small maps Persia works well as you can win an early war with Immortals, get leaders, build the FP & GL and conquer the world in the cavalry age. Bigger maps China is a nice choice because the RIDER has a 3 move versus regular knights @ a move of 2.

I'm playing a regular map as China @ Diety now and may pull off a domination victory unless the Americans finish the United Nations before I can destroy their city. I've got Cav/Infantry & Artillery versus Ai with Tanks & MI but artillery is a great equalizer in war. The AI won't attack with a tank that's down to 1 HP versus a fortified Infantry, but taking ground is a slow process. You pretty much have to use an army of cav or infantry to kill a MI fortified in a city even if the MI is down to 1 HP! (or burn through a lot of cav - not a good idea on Diety where you need a kill ratio in your favor big time).

If I'd disabled the Diplomatic victory I would probably eventually win by domination unless the AI nuked me, but oh well...that wouldn't be as satisfying a win.

My BIG BIG BIG mistake was waiting too long to go to war. Been slightly unlucky with regards to Leaders in this game also. Should have begun pounding away with cannon & Rifles much sooner like I do in Emporer games. Live & Learn I guess.

It has been a learning experience (& a little intimidating) to see just how far you can fall behind in tech on Diety if you do not have the great library & there are scientific civs against you!

 

[zerksees]

Originally posted by Knightblade pDM
I was on a tear when I was playing Monarch, won 9 out every 10 games I played. But now, after playing Emperor, I'm only 1-3, my only win coming culturally, whereas all my Monarch wins were mostly Domination.

Any win on emperor is a good one! Keep refining your game and you will be able to win other ways.

In my last emperor game, I had options for spaceship, domination, conquest and histograph victory conditions. I missed on diplo and culture because I didn't plan far enough ahead. I did score 5186 points. Ultimately I ended the game with domination, since war was what gave me control of the game.

In my current emperor game I am on track to have all victory conditions lined up. I was inspired by SirPleb who had an all-ways victory in the high score HOF (may have been on deity level?). When I saw it, I was amazed and thought it would be a good demonstration of game mastery. Hopefully you will see my all-ways emperor victory in the high score HOF soon (I micromanage my games, I have family obligations, and a drag racing habit, so it could take a month or two). Once I complete that, it's on to deity.

 

[troytheface]

i agree wioth the emperor complaint, it really is not much fun building an empire and struggleing along and then gathering an army of medevil to fight tanks. I think the difficulty should be more along the lines of size and strategy more so then tech.
I play monarch only because i like wars that are somewhat even in regard to the units.

 

[nyboy10128]

I'm not an expert emperor level player yet. I'm 2 and 2. The 2 biggest diffrences between monarch and emperor is using warfare and trade wisely. On monarch with a good starting position and proper expansion, you could pretty much just wait until you got tanks or perhaps cavalry and then steam roll everybody for a domination win. On emperor you must choose your battles with great care. Going after resources and luxuries are even more vital. Waiting for the right time i.e not breaking trade agreements to declare war. Learning which techs to go after that will give you the most leverage in trades. Learning which techs to buy that are vital to winning and which ones can wait can be reaearched for 40 turns.

Don't give up on emperor. For a while I thought emperor was to hard so I didn't give it any real effort. I quickly became bored winning most of my monarch games. I usually lost only when starting on a really bad spot. I actually thought about not playing any more. After winning my first emperor game, my enthusiasm has been renewed as if I just boiught the game.

 

[Arathorn]

And, just to let you know, there are people on the other side of the fence, too, that find Emperor so easy that it's barely worth playing and have to go to Deity (and beyond) to find a challenge. Emperor really is winnable in ALL kinds of different ways -- as a builder, an early war-monger, a late war-monger, peacefully, researcher, trader, etc. As long as the use isn't too heavy in the player, all kinds of bad situations can easily be overcome.

Everything's just a bit harder. I think the biggest difference is psychological. On Monarch level, it's easy to be first in everything all the time -- best expansion, tech leader, military giant, etc. On Emperor, you're going to be behind in some aspect or another and that's a tough hurdle for some people to overcome, mentally. It's not too tough to overcome in the game, but it takes some psychological effort to get used to being behind.

Arathorn

 

[troytheface]

huge map monarch is hard. I do not know if these guys play huge maps or not, but i suspect not..map size is important as well as starting conditions (land) i bet those that find monarch easy make it easy for themselves by restarting to good start locations and playing smaller size maps. Don't put much belief into what you read....been my experience that writers are fond of making themselves sound nobler than they really are.....

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by troytheface
huge map monarch is hard. I do not know if these guys play huge maps or not, but i suspect not..map size is important as well as starting conditions (land) i bet those that find monarch easy make it easy for themselves by restarting to good start locations and playing smaller size maps. Don't put much belief into what you read....been my experience that writers are fond of making themselves sound nobler than they really are.....

Actually, IMHO, tiny maps are often more difficult than huge maps.
The AI seems more agressive on tiny maps (I know, it only looks that way, 'cause there's less room to expand so the wars start earlier....)

 

[Arathorn]

@troytheface: I resent the implication. Monarch games are easy on ANY map size, with any starting condition.

As for restarting games, I do that only for OCCs or if I'm starting a grand challenge of some sort.

Arathorn

 

[Bam-Bam]

Yeah, if you think Arathorn is just blowing smoke in his post--check out the type of game he dreams up for a challenge here or here.

Seriously, there are plenty of folks round these parts that have mastered this game at the highest levels. That does not really matter, since we all can get enjoyment out of whatever level we choose to play. I find monarch games easy, emperor games fun but almost always winnable, and deity games seriously challenging. What I like most about emperor (and monarch) level is that I can choose many different paths for the game, including variants. Monarch games can be fun if someone has developed an interesting customized map with twisted victory conditions, etc.

What Arathorn said about the higher levels does make sense. Many players are more than capable to play at emperor or deity, but find themselves frustrated because during the game they find themselves so far behind. Once you get used to playing from behind, the higher difficulty levels no longer FEEL as hard.

Besides the War Academy, there are lots of great resources to learn more about the game. Check out some of the threads in the succession games section--especially the training day games. You can also learn a whole lot from some of the detailed ggame reports for the Epics at Realms Beyond Civilization. That site has links to some great games from the likes of Arathorn, T-Hawk, Sirian, Sullla, Charis, and others.

Bam-Bam