Money, Money, not enough

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Ronnoc, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Bluetooth

    Bluetooth King

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    Raze conquered cities, that's the way to go.
     
  2. Nebular

    Nebular Chieftain

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    In my first two games I never had a problem with money. I'd fluctuate between +5 and +200 based on what I was building, but never had it go below +5. In my third game, however, my unplanned wild expansion/city acquisition, poor economic planning (let's build all of the expensive stuff and no banks!) and stupid number of workers (I had captured a bunch and decided to keep them for myself ending up with about 20 of 'em) threw my economy into a nose dive (-118/turn hurts!). As long as you only build what you need in cities and keep up with the market/bank/stock exchanges, you should be OK without having to change a city's focus to gold.

    Keeping a city a puppet is nice, but I like to annex them so they don't build unnecessary junk. I've found they tend to build everything available in the building list. Sure, they always pick the important stuff first (for the most part), but they always build the rap they don't need, too, which ends up costing me more in building maintenance. Puppets that will never build units should not squander away time and money building barracks and other +unit XP/production buildings.
     
  3. Gnollen

    Gnollen Chieftain

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    Here's my 2cents on running a massive empire. I recently won a game as Rome with a 20+ city empire. Your two biggest concerns for having an empire that big will be your treasury and happiness. Science will follow naturally, and culture you'll always struggle with a little. Here's a snapshot of that game.

    Luxuries
    One nice benefit to a big empire is that you'll probably have access to loads of those happiness-providing luxuries. But that won't be enough! See below.

    Policies
    - I added in some piety. The benefits to happiness and culture definitely helped early on.
    - I personally invested heavily in the honor branch. One of those policies allows you to gain 1 happiness for garrisoned cities. When you're talking about 20+ cities that's actually really significant.
    - Later on I invested in commerce to get to Protectionism. That extra happiness from luxuries will keep you in the green.
    - Finally I put a toe in the order branch and autocracy branch. The unlock benefit from autocracy was my last pick and frankly it was enough to get me thru the end of the game. It really helps with unit maintenance.

    Specialization
    With a big empire you can afford to have some specialist cities. I had one GP factory that kicked out a GP at a decent rate. Golden Ages are HUGE in this game! I can't emphasize that enough. You can go from running in the red to +300 gold/turn during a golden age. Save a GP to pop a golden age for budgetary emergencies.

    Unit Maintenance
    Now with happiness in order, I start to run into treasury deficits from unit upkeep. Delete any workers you aren't using! For garrison-happiness, I built low-hammer obsolete units in the modern era like Lancers. I think of them as my royal Honor Guard :lol: Even middling production cities could build them in under 10 turns.

    Buildings
    Don't build a building you don't need. It's as simple as that. Don't put walls around cities deep in your empire and don't put armories / barracks in cities that won't ever produce units. If you run out of things to build it's pretty worthless to put toward "wealth" since it may net you +1 gold / turn. You're better off putting it toward a wonder even if it will take 60 turns. If someone beats you to it, you get a cash bonus!

    The Art of War
    You won't have a big empire without taking out some neighbors! Fortunately you're war-mongering should earn you enough cash to stay afloat. Pillage, sack, and repeat. Always puppet your cities if your happiness hovers too low. Annex key production cities, set the population to production focus and prioritize courthouse ASAP. Don't do more of 2-3 of these at a time. If left to their own devices too long, a puppet will bankrupt you with stupid buildings that don't help you long-term but cost a lot in maintenance. I think of it as their form of passive resistance :king: If a city is too small and too fringe to be any benefit, especially if it lacks a needed resource, don't hesitate to put it to the sword.

    Conclusions
    I know there are probably a lot of policy strategies that will emerge, so I don't claim to be any kind of expert. All I can say is my approach worked pretty well and it was exciting! There was never a time where I was always set-for-life on either happiness or gold. I always had to juggle some aspect of it and the new culture policies always seemed to arrive just in time. I'm sure a better "big money" strat will emerge in time.
     
  4. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    Gnollen took about the same path I did with my 40 city Rome.

    I actually built just about every single building I could and had my entire territory covered in imporvements with RR's connecting every city. I made money in the end game via golden ages. Realistically I could have run a leaner city build but I wanted to play with everything. I wish it was easier to maintain a full empire without relying on the GA to get you through.
     
  5. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Yes, there is nothing more fun ;) then watching a puppet city that will never EVER build a unit building that arsenal.
    But my favorite was when my empire was running at +80 happiness and my puppets were building stadiums. I"M AT +80, I DON"T NEED ANYMORE HAPPY BUILDINGS.
    At least when you play the Egyptians they'll build tombs early on.
     
  6. Novem

    Novem Chieftain

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    Not much more I can add to what everyone else is saying. I hardly ever puppet a city if I capture it. I raze it, period. If I want to have a city, I'll build myself a settler and put them down where I want, presto insta city. I only keep the cities I'm forced to keep (capitals). Then as soon as I feel comfortable doing so I'll annex it to keep them from constructing buildings I don't want them to put up. All you have to do is build a courthouse to eliminate the unhappiness factor.

    Don't keep units that aren't doing anything. I've deleted more workers since I've gotten Civ 5 than I ever did playing Civ 4. Make sure you delete them within your borders and you will gain money back.

    You have to be very selective in the buildings you put up. You can't just spam them anymore.

    I for one love how Civ 5 makes you have to THINK about what you want to do next. :D
     
  7. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING Supporter

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    Right now it seems very unforgiving. At some points in the game you must micro manage everything perfectly just to break even.
     
  8. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    Is this actually a confirmed game mechanic that older units cost less to upkeep or is it just the late game economy/inflation that makes them so costly?

    Rat
     
  9. Gath

    Gath Warlord

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    All my cities get marketplace, bank, stock exchange (and burial tomb thingy if I'm egypt).

    The early ones get monuments and libraries, the biggest few get universities. The rest, generally get nothing. Late game the highest production cities get a railroad to the capital and a factory.

    I generally only have money problems when i capture too many workers. Most buildings in this game aren't worth the maintenance cost.
     
  10. Gorey

    Gorey Prince

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    Merchant specialists are crap in Civ5.

    You lose 2 food to gain 2 gold? You may as well just work a trading post. You get to keep the food and use it to work more trading posts.

    Merchants need a buff to make the loss in food worth it IMO. Even the Great Merchant you get from running those specialists is not all that exciting.
     
  11. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Yes, almost literally exactly that. EVERY one of my luxuries, plus a gold pymt, plus more GPT, plus open borders. :rolleyes:

    I mean seriously. I have Modern Armor on your borders, staring at your Swordsmen... and you're making demands of me?? :mad:
     
  12. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Yeah, that's why I said "may." With some Rationalism and Freedom social policies (I think?), they cost half the food and all specialists produce extra science and production.
     
  13. MeowTau

    MeowTau Chieftain

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    I struggled with money the first few games, but play deity now and generally find the game too easy as the AI is incompetent at war. A few tips on getting gold.

    I heavily overexpand at the start. I usually build a worker often followed right by a settler. Cities can defend themselves well enough against the barbarians, so I make an early land grab of 4 to 5 cities with pretty much no defenses.

    I do not tend to build cities unless there is a luxury resources nearby. Early to mid game the AI's will all pay 300 gold or slightly less for luxuries, so 3 extra resources will net you excess gold. Consider selling even luxury resources you only have one of if you don't need the happiness at the moment.

    Fish are a nice source of gold, so get them hooked up asap.

    Trade a couple resources and then buy an alliance with maritime city state, and this will shoot up your city size quickly. This also has the impact of dissuading the AI from attacking you early game when your defenses are poor, as they seem to fear fighting both of you.

    After you have a few cities, automated workers are your friends. They do a pretty good job of building balanced improvements. And they are intelligent enough to start throwing up trading posts all over when your gold income gets negative.

    Do not build a building unless you can see an explicit purpose, otherwise the upkeep will slaughter your economy. Marketplaces/banks are your friends, and have no upkeep.

    You can actually sell open borders to the AI's. It will net around 30 to 50 gold each time, with no real downsides most of the time.

    Connect cities to roads asap.

    Do not have a larger military than you need. In the early to mid game, a single catapult is often sufficient to defend most cities. Also you don't need units stationed in each of your cities, only the edge ones likely to come under attack. And plan it from the get go, building only units that you find useful.

    Get civil service quickly to boost city size.

    Conquer, conquer, and more conquer. Happiness buildings that the puppet states will build will offset the additional city happiness penalty, and the new city will provide extra gold.

    Up the difficulty level. The AI's are literally rolling in gold, and I make it a priority to siphon as much off as I can selling anything they will buy.
     
  14. Surgeon

    Surgeon Warlord

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    I've almost never had money problems. You just have to be careful about what you build and if your in real strife pick up the $$$ policy.
     
  15. gonzo562

    gonzo562 Chieftain

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    build trade posts, get into golden ages, trade trade and trade extra resources. Civs will give up 200-300gold for your resources
     
  16. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    Really?? I find most of them are flat broke by 1600 AD. :(

    Rat
     
  17. Ogrelord

    Ogrelord Prince

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    Anyone tried the Iroquois? With forests as roads you must save lots of gold on maintenance!?
     

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