[R&F] Mongolia First Look

[stealth_nsk]

I wonder if there are more anti-cavalry balance things in R&F other than just adding Pike and Shoot?

I'm sure it would just replace it with a similar non-unique, but that is a good question.

And what about UU, which don't replace anything, like Rough Riders?

Genghis Khan is a leader of Mongolia again. Now we have Genghis Khan, Alexander, Gandhi and Montezuma who are iconic leader in this game.

Montezuma shouldn't be in the list. Civ5 and Civ6 have different Montezumas.

Keshik are likely a unique treated as heavy cavalry that upgrade along the archery path.

In Civ6 units don't switch class on upgrade, like in Civ5 (and that's great). If it's shooting and it's primary role is shooting - it belongs to archer class and upgrades to units with archer class,

Yep the Mongols are a one trick pony (pun intended) but that's fine. They will be fun to play occasionally when I feel like stomping the world and they should make an interesting AI opponent. Assuming the AI Mongols start with horses it looks like a Civ that the AI could play well (of course if the AI Mongols don't start with horses then they will suck).

While Mongolia has very little for peaceful play, it still does. One of the thing I see is completing that nasty "Send trade route" city state quest from far away city states. With instant trading post building, you could place the necessary intermediate trading posts in several turns.

 

[Wingednosering]

Anybody else find it interesting that the Mongols have two naval abilities converted for land use?

1. Civilian escorting: this is a Junk ability for Indonesia

2. Permanent movement boost on construction: this is typically a naval boost in both Civ V and VI.

Just picture that Mongol Horde sailing across the plains...

Are we positive Keshigs require Horses? I feel like that throwaway line in the FL video was just because they get so many cav bonuses (plus cav eurekas). If they really do, that makes them unique amongst uniques.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

The Mongols get a free trading post the moment they send a trade route to a city.

And the Macedonians get science for building scouts, which they can then use for peaceful exploration.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Are we positive Keshigs require Horses? I feel like that throwaway line in the FL video was just because they get so many cav bonuses (plus cav eurekas). If they really do, that makes them unique amongst uniques

I'm hoping it means all uniques will need resources because the current setup makes no sense.

 

[Returning Lurker]

Montezuma shouldn't be in the list. Civ5 and Civ6 have different Montezumas.

I don’t think that’s right. Both of them are Montezuma I, their Civilopedia entries are virtually word for word parrots of one another. Civilization I used Montezuma II but I think every game since has used the actually good Montezuma to represent the Aztecs.

 

[Futumch]

Yay! Happy now. I've wanted the Mongols and the Zulus for quite a while.

 

[Lord Xavius]

I don’t think that’s right. Both of them are Montezuma I, their Civilopedia entries are virtually word for word parrots of one another. Civilization I used Montezuma II but I think every game since has used the actually good Montezuma to represent the Aztecs.

It's correct that both V and VI use Monty I, but Monty II was actually the Aztec leader as late as IV.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I'm hoping it means all uniques will need resources because the current setup makes no sense.

The current setup makes sense from gameplay perspective. Losing unique due to lack of resource affects civilization uniqueness too much.

I don’t think that’s right. Both of them are Montezuma I, their Civilopedia entries are virtually word for word parrots of one another. Civilization I used Montezuma II but I think every game since has used the actually good Montezuma to represent the Aztecs.

Yep, sorry. it was Civ4 which had different Monty.

 

[empresskiova]

I’ve been looking forward to these guys since they announced Rise and Fall. I can’t wait to raze the cities of tribes who don’t kneel.

 

[Kyro]

I guess Mary Katherine Goddard finally found proper use in the game. It's permanent +3 Combat Strength with that extra visibiliyy.

It'll be fun to see a 3 way deadlock between Mongolia, Scythia and Greek Macedon.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Anybody else find it interesting that the Mongols have two naval abilities converted for land use?

Just picture that Mongol Horde sailing across the plains....

"A tide of hoofbeats crash upon the steppe like surf upon a stormy shore
We sail the sea of grass on ships of Blood and Bone..."

The comparative imagery has been invoked by more poets and singers than you can count
And there is a reason that the horse was sacred to Poseidon, the Pre-Greek God of the Sea...

 

[Wingednosering]

"A tide of hoofbeats crash upon the steppe like surf upon a stormy shore
We sail the sea of grass on ships of Blood and Bone..."

The comparative imagery has been invoked by more poets and singers than you can count
And there is a reason that the horse was sacred to Poseidon, the Pre-Greek God of the Sea...

True. Most of them are more eloquent than I am!

 

[blackbutterfly]

Nice (mega)meme!

In practice in Civ VI more diplomatic visibility is a curse, cos you get bombarded with noise. Notification spam. So and so built this...so and so sent a delegation, etc. IDC. It's annoying!! The worst part of playing Catherine/France.

Hopefully with R&F the notification spam will be under control

Moderator Action: Post has been edited to remove the attempts at evading the autocensor. Please use appropriate language in our forums. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[God of Kings]

OK I just updated my Nations Map with the Mongols, and I am glad they did not pick a later leader

I still see the old versions of the map.

 

[bite]

I still see the old versions of the map.

Sorry updated the files on my computer, working for the Rise and Fall release, will edit post to make that a bit more clear

 

[nzcamel]

My man Genghis
I can die in peace.

Well not quite as cool as Macedon and not quite as OP as Scythia as for as neverending military conquest goes, but it certainly fits the Mongol Horde theme alright.

Early game...sure. Once they hit the medieval era

The bonus to combat strength doesn't seem so overpowered. Monti can also get +15 and more combat strength for EVERY unit.

But that is just Monty (who is awesome ). No one else has anything like it.

If it's anything like the Sea Dog then it can capture UUs, which can capture Norway's Longship. (I just played Victoria and captured a grand total of 4-5 ships. A new record!)

Yeah, but do they stay UU's, or do they become a standard unit upon capture?

Do they get combat bonuses? I think you'll have to use crossbowmen and terrain to counter them.

Precisely. You have to neutralize their range and mobility by boxing them in between your units and whatever terrain features you can manage.

And VI is the game for using terrain! With movement points rounded down rather than up, and rivers slow units down massively, I think countering the Horde -as awesome as it is here- will be possible. One hellavah challenge...but not impossible.

OK I just updated my Nations Map with the Mongols, and I am glad they did not pick a later leader

I still see the old versions of the map.

Yeah, I can't see them added either...

Are we positive Keshigs require Horses? I feel like that throwaway line in the FL video was just because they get so many cav bonuses (plus cav eurekas). If they really do, that makes them unique amongst uniques.

I'm hoping it means all uniques will need resources because the current setup makes no sense.

I think she just meant that the Mongols will want horses asap for the bonuses they get on normal horse units. I'm with NobleZarkon - I'd prefer UU's had to have resources, but I don't think the Keshigs will be any different to the rest.

 

[Phoenix1595]

For those who plan on preventing Mongol trade routes from entering their territory due to the diplo visibility buff, here’s how the real Genghis reacted to such an action:

Genghis Khan saw the potential advantage in Khwarazmia as a commercial trading partner using the Silk Road, and he initially sent a 500-man caravan to establish official trade ties with the empire. However, Inalchuq, the governor of the Khwarazmian city of Otrar, attacked the caravan, claiming that the caravan contained spies and therefore was a conspiracy against Khwarazmia. The situation became further complicated because the governor later refused to make repayments for the looting of the caravans and hand over the perpetrators. Genghis Khan then sent a second group of three ambassadors (two Mongols and a Muslim) to meet the Shah himself, instead of the governor Inalchuq. The Shah had all the men shaved and the Muslim beheaded and sent his head back with the two remaining ambassadors. Outraged, Genghis Khan planned one of his largest invasion campaigns by organizing together around 100,000 soldiers (10 tumens), his most capable generals and some of his sons. (Source: Wikipedia)

The result was no more Khwarazm.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Losing unique due to lack of resource affects civilization uniqueness too much.

I agree with this - so just set it up so the required resource for a UU spawns near you then everyone's happy.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I agree with this - so just set it up so the required resource for a UU spawns near you then everyone's happy.

Fair solution, but complicates map script a lot. Civ5 tried to do it with Rome, but it periodically failed.

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm pretty certain Keshigs will not need Horses (no uniques do), but given so many of Mongolia's abilities work around cavalry units, you will need to make sure you have Horses for the earlier Horsemen. And Iron for the Knights, which are probably going to be their strongest unit if you get all the bonuses lined up.