Mongolia, the worst synergy state? Help!

[futurehermit]

The difference between HBR and math--and why HBR feels more expensive--is that math unlocks many things whereas HBR unlocks nothing.

However, I still believe HBR and a horse-archer onslaught is the right move in certain cases, moreso if the UU is a horse-archer replacement. HBR is also solid if you have elephants obviously.

 

[madscientist]

The difference between HBR and math--and why HBR feels more expensive--is that math unlocks many things whereas HBR unlocks nothing.

However, I still believe HBR and a horse-archer onslaught is the right move in certain cases, moreso if the UU is a horse-archer replacement. HBR is also solid if you have elephants obviously.

Exactly my point, it is not preferred because it is deadend (like archery, and divine right) not that it costs ALOT of beakers.

 

[Innawerkz]

You probably would tech IW if you don't have copper. Swords also work better against archers than axes do.

I suppose one approach would be to start out with chariots then switch to Keshiks later. This way you could use the chariots as pillagers to prevent them from getting spearmen.

Actually, if I don't get Copper, I go Animal Husbandry for Horses. As Genghis/Egypt/Persia/Carthage this is automatic. I get a worker ability and a very probable pop of a high value production/strategic resource.

I sense our difference in play-style stems from my absolute single-minded focus on troop generation with regards to waging war. Most early cities I encounter have 3 -4 archers at best. 8 - 10 Chariots/Axes can take it pretty easily. If the have spears, refer to kcmarkwells comments about numerical superiority.

If I could beeline Horseback riding, I would. However, for early war, having Slavery and the ability to chop FAR outweighs the 'necessity' of having copper. In the early going archers and chariots can fend off virtually everything, if it comes to it.

 

[futurehermit]

Exactly my point, it is not preferred because it is deadend (like archery, and divine right) not that it costs ALOT of beakers.

Yes, I agree with you, I'm just saying that it is perceived to cost a lot because it is dead end. I.e., it is "a lot" of beakers that isn't going toward something beyond HBR.

 

[Florian]

Divine Right isn't a dead end, is it? You can get Nationalism by that route, if I'm remembering correctly. The reason people avoid that tech is that all it does is allow you to build two wonders, which you might not particularly want, or which someone else might have built already.

 

[madscientist]

Divine Right isn't a dead end, is it? You can get Nationalism by that route, if I'm remembering correctly. The reason people avoid that tech is that all it does is allow you to build two wonders, which you might not particularly want, or which someone else might have built already.

You can get to nationalism with divine right. Does divine right lead to nationalism without need of civil service???

 

[Gliese 581]

You can get to nationalism with divine right. Does divine right lead to nationalism without need of civil service???

No CS is a preq.

Edit: I'm sorry if you were stating a rhetorical question for the benefit of the poster you quoted.

 

[madscientist]

No CS is a preq.

Edit: I'm sorry if you were stating a rhetorical question for the benefit of the poster you quoted.

I thought that, but wa sinterested to know if I could skip civil service to get through to nationalism.

I ask because in my RPC Saladin game I have theology and can get paper (paper does not require civil service) and if divine right opened up nationalism I would be interested in that path.

SO an answer and an actual question.

Thanks

 

[Innawerkz]

Yes, I agree with you, I'm just saying that it is perceived to cost a lot because it is dead end. I.e., it is "a lot" of beakers that isn't going toward something beyond HBR.

It's going towards War Elephants, Knights and Cavalry, isn't it? Investing in future wars?

The timing of WHEN to research HBR is the question. Do I need HA's now or is getting past Mathematics a handful of turns earlier going to change the face of the game that much faster/better?

 

[futurehermit]

That's true, but you can usually trade for it by the time you want to be spamming those units. That is what I'm talking about: The decision to self-research it early vs. just simply trading for it later after researching "more important" technologies.

 

[King Jason]

That's true, but you can usually trade for it by the time you want to be spamming those units.

Plus, I think there's a big difference between taking 20+ turns to research it now. Rather than taking 2+ turns to research it later.

 

[Innawerkz]

Plus, I think there's a big difference between taking 20+ turns to research it now. Rather than taking 2+ turns to research it later.

There's also a big difference in researching it now and having the Stables built, ready and online before/just as you reach construction and activate your War Elephants. I feel like John "Hannibal" Smith in the A-Team when that happens: "I love it when a plan comes together!"

I play mostly multi-player now and access to any and all units at their maximum potential is something I strive for. The more tools in my belt, the more versatile my army can be, the more sure I am about anything thrown at me.

 

[futurehermit]

Horse archers are awesome in multiplayer. I've only played a few multiplayer games, but I've wiped out a number of people with them. I only lost once in multiplayer (I play 4-player pangaea free-for-alls) and that was after a successful horse archer rush, but the remaining player had spears and war elephants and I didn't have a metal anywhere to speak of