Mongolian UHV

[blizzrd]

Does anyone else find the 10% UHV condition is particularly easy to achieve?

I've just updated the wiki http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-mongolian-strategy after playing Mongolia to UHV wins a couple of times recently, and I found the 10% wasn't really challenging.

Perhaps going back to 12% could be reintroduced?

What was driving this value down through the various patches anyway? Was there a general public outcry that more than 10% was impossible?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

it used to be 20% I think. People (like me) were still complaining at 12%:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-244332.html
At that time I don't think the Silk Road was prebuilt. I still don't think the Horde gimmick works (half the time I don't get flipped cities despite razing a much larger city and my keshik approaches the next city, so I stopped using it for capturing cities).

I disagree with not whipping monuments though. Their cultural values are still intact after discovery of calendar.

 

[blizzrd]

Interesting. I never got the horde special power to work for me. All I found was that razing a city earned the unit which finished off the last defender another round of movement. I stopped trying at some point and forgot that it was even supposed to have an effect.

I never new the cultural bonus from monuments was ongoing after Calendar, are you sure Pacifist? If so, just goes to show that you can learn something new every day.

 

[mushyman]

Yep, Monuments continue giving culture after Calendar. Like many things in Civ4, "obsoleteness" is inconsistently implemented

I'd still like to know exactly how the Mongolian UP works, as I'm trying to complete the UHV on Monarch now. I get that enemy means the civ that you're at war with (and is thus useless vs Independents), but what exactly does "approach" and "immediately" mean? Presumably approach means move a unit closer to the target city, but in a straight line? Do you just have to move such that there are fewer tiles between your unit and the city? What if you move past the city? Can any unit be used, or just ones that haven't moved/attacked this turn? And does immediately mean the same turn, or can you do the turn after? Two turns after? When exactly are the cities supposed to flip???

How about a simple, concrete example: Two cities, two tiles apart. I have a force of Keshiks on the opposite side of the 1st city - that is, the set up is army - city - space - city.
I attack the 1st city and raze it. Let's say I have two Keshiks left, one which did the razing and a fresh one, both have just now moved onto the razed city square. If I move the unit which attacked directly towards the other city this turn, will it flip next turn? How about the unit which didn't attack? If I leave them where they are and approach next turn, is it supposed to flip? How about if I approach and then move past it next turn?

 

[blizzrd]

Played once again (maybe the last time for a while now though) as Mongolia tonight. I did get the unique power to work once this time (!), when I razed Xi'an, Llasa flipped to me upon my approach.

I still think the 10% condition is far too easy. Here are a few figures on how much area I had in various years. I got the UHV in 1430AD, but played on to 1500AD to see how much I could get to. No monuments in this game.

20% really is insanely difficult. I had Khmer as a vassal, perhaps if I had conquered them instead I would have reached 20% in 1500AD.

1390 = 5.96%
1400 = 7.81%
1410 = 8.62%
1420 = 9.09%
1430 = 10.66%
1440 = 11.88%
1450 = 13.04%
1460 = 13.83%
1470 = 14.36%
1480 = 15.11%
1490 = 17.22%
1500 = 18.25%

And here are some screenshots one from when I first got to 10% and another at 1500AD.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

maybe if you sent some elephants through the Burmese jungle and conquered Patna early...and then sent some settlers for southern India, 20% would have worked.
First thing I demand of Khmer (if Angkor is still around) is the elephant, so that Guiyang/Xi'an can build elephants.

 

[Rhye]

oooh, you're never happy!
How much land did you have in that game?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I think I had 13 or 14%, it's been a while. (I recently lost all my hall of fame scores)

 

[dominic8]

Just completed UHV on deity.

Strategy.
Essential features are:

Send Keshiks west as soon as you're sure China will go.

Slavery and rush lots of Keshiks and settlers

Work out which cities will flip. It seems big ones never flip but destroy Kyoto for example and you get Kagoshima and Fukuoka.

Time your 7th razed city just before your empire crumbles from instability. Then the golden age saves you.




Could have done better by trading Russia for theology and running theocracy.
Could have won by settling SE Asia and Australia.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

You chose customscenario? Or do you mean emperor?
Anyway, nice game
It sure is hard(For me at least) keeping my stability intact.

 

[Alexius08]

Running theocracy would be suicide stability-wise.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Running theocracy would be suicide stability-wise.

Is even with Turkey.

 

[blizzrd]

Wow, that's some thread necro!

Work out which cities will flip. It seems big ones never flip but destroy Kyoto for example and you get Kagoshima and Fukuoka.

The Mongol unique power is difficult to assess. As I understand it, surrounding cities will only flip if they have less population than the city that has just been razed. There was a thread around here a long while back in which Rhye explained the exact mechanism, but I can't recall where.