MOO1 remake - what would you change?

[vmxa]

Why not allow a number of design slots per hull size? For example, 3 x small, 3 x medium, 3 x large, 3 x huge, thus a player can design up to 12 different ship designs? (The multiplier can be other than 3.)

This can also be structured based on each race. Let me see ...

Most likely it was a convention used to a) save them programming time and b) try to get the game to run well within the limits of the machines available at the time (the biggest I would bet).

Remember most had x286 and some low end x386 as I recall. HD were not even common.

 

[neutrino]

Most likely it was a convention used to a) save them programming time and b) try to get the game to run well within the limits of the machines available at the time (the biggest I would bet).

Remember most had x286 and some low end x386 as I recall. HD were not even common.

Yup ... the good ol' x286! (My first PC was x486, but anyway ...) I was thinking of increasing the ship design slots to MOO1 with respect to current machines with loads of RAM. But thanks for reminding me of the reality of early '90s.

 

[ignatius]

@ neutrino

As for your races suggestions: I'd like the idea to make "fertile" and "hostile" (including their size bonus) to depend on race and planet type, as this is partly the case already, for the strategic implications of planets being valued differently by the races.

I don't like the idea to make the stats of certain equipment depend on race, mostly because the 6-ladder techs system already allows you to model most of the effects: Want the Bears to have better shields: make them good or excellent at force field tech. Want the Cats to have more effective weapons, well they already are excellent at weapons tech. etc. Also, I could not see why the efficiency of shields or the HP of hulls would depend on the race of the pilot (as opposed to the more intangible ATT and DEF values which could be explained by skill)

As for the cloaking device: While having a tree of 6 seems somewhat excessive, I'd like the idea to at least split the current tech (e.g. +4 def, no strategic cloaking/initiative bonus vs. +6 def with strat. cloaking and/or initiative bonus) and make the first one available much sooner. As it is now, when cloaking device becomes available, sub space teleporters are usually already around the corner which is a far better deal for bombers, while HEF obsoletes cloaks for ship vs ship designs (no use cloaking when you can always shoot at the very first move).

As for the design slots: I'm probably the only one who actually likes the 6-slot limit, as it forces you to plan ahead and also allows to react to enemy designs. It also cuts down on micromanagement (without slot limit, you would have to redesign after every new tech for optimal play) and allows for nice 1-screen fleet overviews.

An alternative would be to have unlimited slots but introduce economies of scale i.e. the cost for a ship comes goes down the more you produce of a design and/or penalites (configuration costs) for switching production.

cu

Ignatius

 

[OlorinStormcrow]

One thing that you have to keep in mind with the number of hull designs is the battle screen. If you allow more designs, then you have to deal with more stacks potentially in a battle. Too many designs would mean that some ships wouldn't fit into the back row of the screen, and would start out closer to the planet (unless you limited the number of hulls that could group together into a fleet).

It could also lead to cheesy tactics like bringing 10 identical ships knowing that missile bases can only target one per turn, allowing the rest to reach the planet (even if a single missile volley would have been enough to kill all 10 ships stacked together).

I did like the concept of limiting the number of different designs per hull type based on race. I think the AI in MOO already does this to an extent, since different races prefer different sizes, though it would be interesting to apply some limits to human players as well. Rather than 12 designs though, I might go more along the lines of

Alkari: 4 small, 2 medium, 2 large, 0 Huge
Meklar: 1 small, 1 medium, 3 large, 3 huge

but have the total design cap remain at 6. The Alkari would be able to have 2,2,2; or 4,1,1; or 3,2,1; etc. They would still be relying mostly on smalls though.

One of the issues here is that you can't give a race 0 smalls or larges, because everyone needs scouts and colony ships.

One possibility of a remake would be to have 6 military design slots, and have scouts and colony ships designed automatically (perhaps allowing their engines to auto-upgrade when new ones are discovered so older scouts never need to be retired). LR colonies would still need to be designed using one of the 6 hulls, but they are usually used for a very short period during the game. You could also code the scouts and colony ships to never enter combat, thus no scout blockades. I'd also like to see scouts that encounter defended enemy systems to at least update the map with the name of the system, and the flag of ownership. I never liked having to remember which occupied planets my scouts had been to, and which was which. No need to treat them as explored colonies, where I can see the pop and base count, but more like the colonies you learn about through contacting a race.

I feel like a remake would be great if it stayed as close as possible to the original, and any new features were optional.

There would be some things to improve about the AI though. One would be giving it a better criteria for scrapping designs. It's painful to see the Alkari flying around with several thousand laser fighters trying to shoot down ships with class 8 shields and particle beams.

It's tough to write the AI so it can't be abused; if they AI were to monitor the enemy tech levels, and scrap ships once enemy shield levels exceeded their weapon strength, the player could research high level FF, get the AI to scrap their fleets, then pummel them with ships with no shielding. Maybe the AI could "cheat" by knowing what the players hull designs and missile base techs are. Then it could scrap ships that would be ineffective vs. current base shielding and ship designs (though a minimum number of ships would need to be built of a particular design before the AI considered them, to prevent players from just putting up an empty design to fool with the AI).

 

[R.B.]

Changing Moo? Well... only 3 things:

1: Better Graphics{not 3D, because that would alienate the original}
2: Fully copatable with Modern computers{like Windows XP}, no complex installations where it takes forever to do.
3: Better looking Cat Women.

 

[neutrino]

Some other changes that MOO1 could make without changing its core game engine ...

1. Larger space combat area: Once I began to put speedy ships in combat, the existing space combat area becomes claustrophobic. How about make it larger ... 16 x 16, for example? A larger space combat area should allow a player commanding speedy ships to get the most out of their speed. With a larger space combat area, there is a drawback of scrolling: A single display cannot show everything that is taking place in combat. Therefore, a smaller screen showing the scaled-up version of the combat area will be required. In the scaled-up screen, simplify notations. For example, I play as the Psilons with green flag with three stacks. Therefore, on the scaled-up screen, it shows green notations: P1, P2, and P3. (H# = Human, K #= Klackon, D# = Darlock, B# = Bulrathi, A# = Alkari, P# = Psilon, S# = Silicoid, R# = Sakkra, E# = Meklar, M# = Mrrshan)

2. In the Planets Screen, show more comprehensive info. Why not make it more thorough by including turns to complete Planetary Shields, Stargates, and Ships. Also show max numbers for populations and factories. (The overall idea is to come up with better information display to help micromanagement of each controlled planets.)

3A. In the Races Screen, show more comprehensive info on foreign technological activities. For example, show research allocations for each foreign powers as well as the progression of their current research. However, make their accuracy dependent on the amount of espionage you have invested in them.

3B. In the Race Screen, show more comprehensive info on foreign relations. For example, how do my dear friend (or enemy) Darlocks are getting along with others? Show me their race relations graphs! However, their accuracy are also dependent on the amount of espionage you have invested in them, though much less than in 3A.