Moonsinger's Farm - chieftain world

[Smirk]

Whats your score at 1000BC on that map Moon?

I keep track of that myself to tell how well I'm doing in my games, but I have very little data from others that play differently. And I know you are a happiness provider which I am not, so there should be some notable differences.

I work under a checkpoint system to improve my game, under the assumption that if I can beat my best 2150, 1000, X date score, culture, tech then I can continue that trend and arrive upon a faster or better scoring game.



Also whats this 0.6% did the maps shrink again in C3C?

I keep forgetting that the forbidden palace was neutered as well, perhaps you are right you should definately be able to outproduce any C3C game. Although its hard to quantify the +1f bonus agricultural gets you, with early luxuries this translates directly to early score, thus better average over the long term.
This is all conjecture, I've started tons of milking games but never finished one yet, only reached to rails a few times.

 

[Dianthus]

Also whats this 0.6% did the maps shrink again in C3C?

Not quite. The domination limit changed from 2/3 to 66%.

 

[Moonsinger]

Not quite. The domination limit changed from 2/3 to 66%.

Isn't 2/3 = 66.66%? Since they changed it from 66.66% to an even of 66%, there is 0.66% different or approximately 0.6%. In translation, on a huge map, it is about 30 to 40 tiles less toward the domination limit in C3C.

 

[Moonsinger]

Whats your score at 1000BC on that map Moon?

I thought I did post the score. Here it is again:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83454

Only about half in compare to DaveMcW's game. That was just a warm up to see how fast I can build the Pyramid from scratch. I hope to do better next time.

 

[superslug]

EMan.
P.s. When Civ 4 comes out, do you think it would be okay to post a "non-HOF" game thread in the HOF Sub-forum.....it would expose tactics/strategies that are NOT allowed in HOF games (current or future), highlight game bugs/exploits, give examples, and hopefully show the implications of a Rule ban or lack thereof? This I could do.

Thinking a little far ahead aren't we?

 

[Dianthus]

Isn't 2/3 = 66.66%? Since they changed it from 66.66% to an even of 66%, there is 0.66% different or approximately 0.6%. In translation, on a huge map, it is about 30 to 40 tiles less toward the domination limit in C3C.

Yes, 2/3 is (nearly) = 66.66%. That wasn't what I was referring to though (admittedly very incoherently), so I'll explain my "Not quite". I meant that the map sizes didn't change again in C3C (which I believe they have done before at some point, but can't remember which version/patch).

 

[Smirk]

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't too aware of how the original math was done, but 2/3 compared to 66% seems a cosmetic change since they added the win status screen 66.666666...% would look silly.

As for the map size, IIRC vanilla was 200x200 or something, versus 160x160? Its been a while, I believe actually it was an earlier patch level.

 

[superslug]

The mapsizes got reduced with one of the Vanilla patches, one of the early ones.

 

[EMan]

Thinking a little far ahead aren't we?

Let me re-phrase the question, your Honor:

Would it be okay to have such a thread Now?! (Although I can't necessarily commit to writing such a thread at the moment.)

 

[Dianthus]

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't too aware of how the original math was done, but 2/3 compared to 66% seems a cosmetic change since they added the win status screen 66.666666...% would look silly.

I think it was for a more techinical reason. The limit used to be hard-coded, but in C3C it was made part of the scenario, so was stored in the .sav file. They store pretty much everything as integers, this limit included, so they can only have an integer percentage.

[Edit: but you're right 66.666666% would look silly ]

 

[superslug]

Let me re-phrase the question, your Honor:

Would it be okay to have such a thread Now?! (Although I can't necessarily commit to writing such a thread at the moment.)

This is a very difficult question to answer.

Ever since I switched to staff side, you've made quite a case for being the HOF cheerleader. If I say "no" then I'll be slapping down yet another of your ideas.

On the other hand, if I say "yes" I'll be personally endorsing cheating, obviously unofficial cheating, but cheating nonetheless. That could be a precarious thing to do when so many players here take the game seriously and conduct themselves with codes of elegant and enlightened honor.

For now, let me just say this. Wait seven days before asking me again and we'll see if you're still interested then.

 

[Moonsinger]

After my previous run, I think I'm going to remove the restriction of not allowing negative balance. Ok, having a negative balance while focusing on maximum research is back in. Without that, the chieftain level will be really boring. Since I won't be able to move my place until after I discover navigation, without maximum research while on a negative balance, it would take me eternity to get to navigation and this game won't stand much of a chance against anyone else. Therefore, negative balance is now back in. Time to look for new maps.

 

[EMan]

@'slug: We certainly don't want to endorse cheating....and I don't think that impression would be conveyed.............I just think it would be good to show practical examples of why we have the Rules we have........not everybody is an experienced Player!

Here are a couple more considerations to put "in your pipe and smoke" awhile:
1. The thread could go somewhere else.......like General Discussion and be referred to as appropriate in HOF threads
2. I could wait and do this with Civ 4.....which was the original plan....you know Civ 4 will have bugs and exploits when it first comes out........and they should be highlighted so we can have Firaxis, hopefully, fix 'em in a patch instead of having to write a "Red Rule"!

@Moonsinger: It's good to hear you're "back on the scent" of another Blockbuster HOF Milk Run, scouting out the herd to buy for this purpose!

 

[denyd]

My thoughts on the rules are pretty simple.

There are 3 levels of rules:

Level 1: Acceptable submissions: Those are the rules that if you break them your game is thrown away. Things like editing the save file, mobilization and worker dog-pile. Everyone has to abide by these, so obey or else.

Level 2: Questionable tactics: Those are the things that are allowed, but my personal pride refuses to let me use. Things that are legal, yet in the grey area, like ROP Rape, GPT deals before declaring war and ROP terrain modifications. For these, it's more a matter of playing with honor.

Level 3: The sure it's doable, but I prefer to have a life rules: Things like changing of citizens interturn to generate more gold/production & ship-chaining. Whether they are legal or not, I just don't have the extra 10-12 hours in a day to play a game like that. That's work and I spend 40 hours a week there as it is and I don't need anymore.

 

[Moonsinger]

@Denyd, I was talking about personal rule. Rule that I like to impose upon this game...meaning that I won't use certain tactic even when it's legal in HoF. I'm with you on changing stuff during the interturn. I have never done it and don't care much for it. Since some of my games did score pretty high, that should have been a sign for anyone that they don't need to mess around with the interturn in order to get a highscore game. A few hundred/thousand points more or less won't make any different. For example, even though Mazarin beat my DemiGod score and both Mazarin and Svar beat my Emperor score, I knew that I was as good as them. A thousand points more or less won't make any different in the end.

 

[boogaboo]

I'm going to remove the restriction of not allowing negative balance. Ok, having a negative balance while focusing on maximum research is back in. Without that, the chieftain level will be really boring.

...but ... it's against the HoF rules..
I had my {Large, chieftain} milk done without getting a negative balance, just because of this..

 

[Moonsinger]

...but ... it's against the HoF rules..
I had my {Large, chieftain} milk done without getting a negative balance, just because of this..

Having a negative income while pushing for maximum research isn't against the rule! Trading GPT or giving GPT to the AIs while having a negative cash flow is against the rule! If I read correct it correctly, there has already been a few games on the HoF list that were played like that.

In any case, I was wrong about thinking that the palace ranking bug can beat the the farrming civ in C3C. I have played a few fast game and none of them can match the Mayan or the Sumeria. For the Mayan, it doesn't take much to beat the current top score. For the Sumeria, it doesn't take much to do 4 turns positive research. I was making around 100 gold per turn while searching for a new tech every 4 turns without any problem at all.

I also test out the fastest conquest on Sid (going for your fastest conquest game ). Now, that will take sometimes to figure out - you are good! So far, my jar warriors have were no match against those early spearmans. Sure, I try to string their SOD, but trying to kill off the two city defender spearmans aren't easy!

Anyway, I dont have time to play much lately...since I need to finish up that new MapFinder version.

 

[superslug]

Having a negative income while pushing for maximum research isn't against the rule! Trading GPT or giving GPT to the AIs while having a negative cash flow is against the rule!

Moonsinger's correct on this one, boogaboo.

 

[boogaboo]

Ok.. Big oops.
Even a Large chieftain oops

 

[Moonsinger]

Well, I didn't have any time to work on my dairy farm because I haven't found any good size map...one with domination limit of at least 4500 and a couple cows by the river. In the meantime, I'm almost done with 3 different games for the 20K culture. I didn't submit the other two, but I probably will submit this one. After checking it with SirPleb 20K spreadsheet a few hours ago, I think this one has good potential. It probably will hit 20K before 1300 AD. Here is a screen shot of that little town. I'm so happy that it can finally build the Hero Epic from scratch in only two turns!