More Food

[legalizefreedom]

Maybe this is on purpose, but it seems to me food is limited more than the other resources. There are a few buildings that give food, but mainly for the harbor so inland cities don't apply and these don't even make up for the lost food to useless water tiles. There is no district (and associated project) or other way to generate food beyond those. As the food on worked tiles gives way to districts, cities are often pinched by this. Trade routes help some, but they aren't that big of a factor giving maybe 3 food even when you do use them internally.

Is a cities potential size ultimately determined by where it is settled and should it be? Should there be a later era district and associated buildings related to food? It only seems right.

If this is completely on purpose and we agree to live with it, what is the best way to generate more food late game?

 

[Bobfregman]

Let me start by saying that internal trade routes are generally the best way to use them and should be prioritized asap. This is generally why Commercial Zones are so prioritized as the +1 trade route is huge.

Other than that granaries and water mills can help, especially the latter if you have food resources. Cities on grassland and with resources will be able to get big but otherwise you're correct food is more scarce than in previous games. However it's also less important, districts give your cities most of their power and a city with 2 districts can often be quite useful and doesn't require much population.

 

[gimper42]

More food should be generated through the Harbor district. Otherwise food is set up pretty well. You don't want more than a few really tall cities. 6 pop or fewer is plenty for most.

 

[legalizefreedom]

More food should be generated through the Harbor district. Otherwise food is set up pretty well. You don't want more than a few really tall cities. 6 pop or fewer is plenty for most.

A 6 pop city he says...

 

[MyOtherName]

A 6 pop city he says...

Yes, yes he does. Before you hurt yourself laughing, you should ask yourself why you want a big city. It's not that food is scarce, but that growth becomes expensive as cities grow large; there are more effective ways to develop your civilization.

(also, in case you didn't realize, you can move traders around before launching a trade route; they don't have to be used by the city that constructed them)

 

[legalizefreedom]

I appreciate everyone's advice, but it is my belief that cities should always be growing or they aren't being managed properly. With my playstyle, growth is my first and primary goal. When you're big you can do anything you want. 20 min; my cap was over 30 last game. The only exception is when the city serves another more important purpose strategically.

I want a big city because a big city contributes more to my civ than a small one. A lot more. And on short notice if and when I need it. I agree that at first it seems like a slog uphill, but I'm talking later in the game when you start losing food to your 4th or 5th district. It adds up. Everything else you lose from the map has its own district. I guess that's the idea; to make you decide if you want a big specialized city or a medium city that contributes to everything.

I'm not sure it's more expensive as you have more and more to spend all the time. It's just a matter of prioritizing infrastructure. Need housing, build a housing building. Need amenities, build amenity buildings. Need more food, sol. I'm good with it if that's what is intended to limit your city size and I would assume it is. But I was looking for any strategies to help the situation. Something a little deeper than the obvious. Or if anyone found the lack of a food district curious.

Yes, I'm aware that traders move. Sometimes you don't really know if someone knows how to play when they bring something like this up, but I assure you I do.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

You can use Holy Sites with the Feed the World belief. That can generate tons of food with civs that get bonus adjacency to districts.

 

[gimper42]

I only play for domination victories. This means I will own a lot of cities by the end of most games. Too many tall cities with a lot of war weariness is a bad thing. Best that most of the conquered cities stay at 6 pop or lower if possible.

It sounds like you play a different style. I can see where your frustration comes from. I think you are running up against the designed limits of the game. You might achieve your desired results with more cities with much lower average pop.

And I think that yes, a city's max pop will be primarily determined by its dirt. And also to some extent by its pantheon/religion. Is this how it should be? Well, it is how it was designed. Their game. Their rules. We only play it. And then mod it to our rules. And then play it some more.

 

[Victoria]

What level do you pkay on @legalizefreedom ? And what turn do you win in?

A large city takes a while to grow and improvements like sewer and aqueduct are quite inefficient uses of production.

In the early days many of us tried tall cities and agreed then that over about 30 it gets harder. The largest seen was a city of 200 but that was manipulated that way with all victory turned off and entertainment adjacency the old way. Adjacent farm bonuses bump your foid up way more than anything else, I guess they decided they only needed granary & water mill to help with a few cards and religious things.

There is nothing wrong with pop 30 cities. As the difficulty gets higher the AI will win faster and many people get bored if playing over turn 300 so smaller cities and more efficient play makes for a faster game. I rarely use even granaries now.

 

[DrCron]

You need 7 pop, not 6, so you can get at least 3 districts in every city. Ideally you'll want some (or most) cities getting to 10, to get 4 districts, but that's it. And this is totally doable with the current amount of food.

Inland cities can't build harbors, but they usually have it easy to get farm triangles. Just plan you farm building to always get them in triangles and you'll be ok with no more than 3 farms per city.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

If you really want more food, then farm triangles and internal trade routes are really the way to do that.

But as others said, growing requires big investments. The more you grow, more food you need to work to maintain your pop. Somewhere it hits an optimal cap, and most people agree that it's around 7-10 pop, since you don't need many more districts than that.

Maybe in the future they'll allow us to grow more and make late-game more relevant, so Neighborhoods and Aerodromes are more appealing.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I only play for domination victories. This means I will own a lot of cities by the end of most games. Too many tall cities with a lot of war weariness is a bad thing. Best that most of the conquered cities stay at 6 pop or lower if possible.

It sounds like you play a different style. I can see where your frustration comes from. I think you are running up against the designed limits of the game. You might achieve your desired results with more cities with much lower average pop.

And I think that yes, a city's max pop will be primarily determined by its dirt. And also to some extent by its pantheon/religion. Is this how it should be? Well, it is how it was designed. Their game. Their rules. We only play it. And then mod it to our rules. And then play it some more.

That explains it. When you play domination you end up with a lot of cities that you don't really care to manage and negative effects give a greater penalty.

What level do you pkay on @legalizefreedom ? And what turn do you win in?

A large city takes a while to grow and improvements like sewer and aqueduct are quite inefficient uses of production.

In the early days many of us tried tall cities and agreed then that over about 30 it gets harder. The largest seen was a city of 200 but that was manipulated that way with all victory turned off and entertainment adjacency the old way. Adjacent farm bonuses bump your foid up way more than anything else, I guess they decided they only needed granary & water mill to help with a few cards and religious things.

There is nothing wrong with pop 30 cities. As the difficulty gets higher the AI will win faster and many people get bored if playing over turn 300 so smaller cities and more efficient play makes for a faster game. I rarely use even granaries now.

So far I've played on Prince. I suppose that requires an asterix since I can usually play these games at the highest or second difficulty, but I don't care to be rushed and prefer a longer game. I am the Inefficiency Expert after all... That said, I'll probably try King next game to see how it treats me. Last game I won science at 396 and religion at 413 (standard speed). I was really close on both, so I just loaded a save and went the other direction.

You need 7 pop, not 6, so you can get at least 3 districts in every city. Ideally you'll want some (or most) cities getting to 10, to get 4 districts, but that's it. And this is totally doable with the current amount of food.

Inland cities can't build harbors, but they usually have it easy to get farm triangles. Just plan you farm building to always get them in triangles and you'll be ok with no more than 3 farms per city.

Great advice. Thanks!

If you really want more food, then farm triangles and internal trade routes are really the way to do that.

But as others said, growing requires big investments. The more you grow, more food you need to work to maintain your pop. Somewhere it hits an optimal cap, and most people agree that it's around 7-10 pop, since you don't need many more districts than that.

Maybe in the future they'll allow us to grow more and make late-game more relevant, so Neighborhoods and Aerodromes are more appealing.

No need to use the "O" word, but I appreciate the advice.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Beeline, or at least focus to, Feudalism. As has been mentioned, farm triangles will solve a lot of your food issues.

 

[gimper42]

You need 7 pop, not 6, so you can get at least 3 districts in every city.

If you want a third district, then yes, 7 pop is needed. If you don't really care about a third district because you already have enough to win, or whatever the reason, and you want to keep amenity use in check you should cap a city's growth at 6. At pop 6 a city is using 2 amenities. At pop 7 it wants 3 amenities.

That might be wrong... it might be 1 at 6 and 2 at 7. Either way, it's a big difference when you're running 25+ cities.

 

[Victoria]

Yeah 396 and 413, looong games. If you are enjoying them that long then great..... But As the thread says... More food? That does not get you to victory faster. No good guide says grow and ye shall win faster.
Thats why there is no more foid buildings, they did not envisage many cities of size 50... Although its quite possible to do.

 

[Esperr]

You don't need food or big citys. Its better to just spam citys as you get more total population and production that way, not to mention trade routes are like adding 2-4 foodless citizens to a city.

 

[legalizefreedom]

Yeah 396 and 413, looong games. If you are enjoying them that long then great..... But As the thread says... More food? That does not get you to victory faster. No good guide says grow and ye shall win faster.
Thats why there is no more foid buildings, they did not envisage many cities of size 50... Although its quite possible to do.

Not concerned with winning faster, or winning at all for that matter. I'm building a civilization to stand the test of time. That said, 400 is certainly long enough to play one game so the pacing seems to be decent even at this early stage.

You don't need food or big citys. Its better to just spam citys as you get more total population and production that way, not to mention trade routes are like adding 2-4 foodless citizens to a city.

Respectfully, I wasn't asking if I needed more food or big cities, I was asking the best way to get them. I say I want a pepsi and you say I don't need pepsi because we have mountain dew.

You point is taken though. The problem is even on a huge map, due to these new limiting mechanics (which I think are great, btw) there are a limited number of good spots for cities, so the more you spam cities the lower your standards need to be. I suppose that works just fine if you don't intend for a city to ever get larger than 7-10 pop, but that's not my bag.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

So you want big cities because so? Then, you maybe need a bigger investment on almost all fronts.

First, not every city will get past size 15, only a few. Unless you're playing without turn limit, but that's just masochistic in my opinion.

I think you need probably need food-giving religions. Goddess of the Hunt and Goddess of Festivals are your options for pantheons and probably won't be taken earlier, though Fertility Rites may work too (albeit much weaker than the other two). Then founding a religion might give access to Feed the World and Gurdwaras, which adds +4 food. Pretty minor bonuses, but they feed some 3 more citizens, which means more food.

Extensive farming as said is required too. Farms also gets an improvement at Replaceable Parts, so you want to get there fast.

Lastly, trade routes. Those offer the biggest bonus to food, given you built "food-giving" districts in your cities (Campus, Theatre Square, Entertainment Complex and Holy Site). It gets even better if you go for Class Struggle civic and use the policy Collectivization, which gives +4 food for every domestic trade route.

It should be enough to propel you cities through food. Though you'll probably sacrifice some tiles for Neighborhoods, but those are some thoughts.

 

[Jarms48]

Wide is greater than tall in Civ 6, most cities often only need two districts; a commerce hub and your victory district (preferably campus). Taller cities would then have a regional district; entertainment hub or industrial zone.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

Not concerned with winning faster, or winning at all for that matter. I'm building a civilization to stand the test of time.

Try playing with all Victory conditions turned off except for time/score.
If you want really tall cities, then I suggest playing as India, Rome, or Brasil.
India get the Stepwell (Food and Housing).
Rome gets the Bath (Housing and Amenity).
Brasil gets the Carnival (Amenity and more amenity from the project)

Australia gets an honorable mention due to the Outback Station granting 0.5 housing.

The above advice about food-giving beliefs holds true as well.

I hope I answered your question without dodging the question (redundant?).