More Luxuries

[GutFeeling]

Also, my game with this mod installed has crashed twice. I don't think this is related to this mod, but it's never happened to me before.

 

[Barathor]

Excellent. I love new Luxuries, for which the mod supply is few. But perhaps you would consider +1 Gold and +1 Production for the Coffee instead.

Haha... that thought actually crossed my mind as I was planning their yields too. But, in the end, I just decided to keep it at the standard 2G; especially since others, like Copper, weren't even 1P/1G.

Excellent to see you modding again. Already subscribed to this and looking forward to the deluxe version and the BNW updates to your older mods you mentioned on steam. Keep up the great work.

Thanks!

One thing I noticed that may be a bug: a city-state I discovered at the beginning of the game seemed to offer a nearby source of coffee before it was within their borders. Could this be a result of the mod?

That actually already exists in the default game.

Also, my game with this mod installed has crashed twice. I don't think this is related to this mod, but it's never happened to me before.

When did the crash occur? I believe any crashes related to this mod would most likely occur during initial map generation. Are you using any other mods alongside this one?

 

[GutFeeling]

I was using a fair number of mods at the time, to be fair. I initially attributed the crash to InfoAddict, but I reloaded the game without InfoAddict and it still crashed (though perhaps pulling out InfoAddict was itself the cause of the crash). The crashes occurred mid-turn both times. Like I said, probably not related to your mod (though I was using a couple of your other mods, the one that fixes the AI's military strategy being the only one that didn't concern itself exclusively with initial map generation), but the crashes were so mysterious I thought I should mention them on the remote chance they did have something to do with this mod.

 

[Barathor]

Updated: Front Page

 

[GutFeeling]

Hey, I think I found an issue that DOES seem related to your mod... I played a partial game with your mod activated, and no strategic resources seemed to spawn. There was no iron anywhere on the visible portion of the map and nobody, city-state or civ, had it for trade (this was a large game). One civ had two horses for trade, but that was it. I started another game without your mod and iron was plentiful.

Also, a less-serious issue I noticed was that farms looked different with your mod activated. Only the outlines of the fields appeared. I thought this was due to another mod I had running, but when I turned off your mod, it was fixed. Still unsure if this one is related, but thought I'd mention it.

Hope this is helpful! Consider it a report from your amatuer QA tester.

 

[Barathor]

Hey, I think I found an issue that DOES seem related to your mod... I played a partial game with your mod activated, and no strategic resources seemed to spawn. There was no iron anywhere on the visible portion of the map and nobody, city-state or civ, had it for trade (this was a large game). One civ had two horses for trade, but that was it. I started another game without your mod and iron was plentiful.

Also, a less-serious issue I noticed was that farms looked different with your mod activated. Only the outlines of the fields appeared. I thought this was due to another mod I had running, but when I turned off your mod, it was fixed. Still unsure if this one is related, but thought I'd mention it.

Hope this is helpful! Consider it a report from your amatuer QA tester.

Yeah, because of the file this modifies, I'm getting all kinds of interesting comments on the Steam Workshop.

I think one or two players posted something similar to what you described, though. Can you give me a little more info, such as: other mods you have enabled, map being used, and any other settings changed from the default setup.

Also, did you go through this checklist?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=10901714#post10901714

Also, if you have logging enabled, would you mind sending me a copy of your Lua log file if you generate a map with these errors?


EDIT: Also, there's currently an existing bug in the game when using mods which reload the landmark system: Farm Crash Bug

whoward69 has a workaround for it: Farm Replacement

I believe there's a fix coming out for it in the upcoming Fall Patch.

 

[Barathor]

I'm thinking of adding a 5th luxury. I only needed 4 more for my main project, but having one more would allow up to 16 regional luxuries (instead of 15) that wouldn't disturb the 1 marble / 3 cs / 5 random luxury totals in this mod.

I'd like one that can be easily placed in less fertile regions, like tundra and desert, to give them a little more variety. Plus, I don't want yet another plantation luxury.

The luxury would also have to have something very iconic and recognizable to use as art to represent it appropriately.

It also has to be an item that has had a decent amount of significance as a trade good in past history (and even now, if possible).

- - - - - - - -

So, I was thinking of maybe... tin?

The art could be an iconic tin can or cans (no labels). (Yeah, they're only coated in it, but I believe it's still good enough.)

I believe it was of importance during ancient/classical times as it could create better weaponry and armor when combined with copper during the Bronze Age, among other uses I'm sure.

It's even useful now too: as an ingredient in solder, for plating other metals in food packaging because of its low toxicity, and because of its high resistance to oxidizing, it also plates other metals to prevent corrosion.

Edit: Also, maybe modders could utilize it to make some other interesting content for their own projects, with some bronze concepts, for example.

- - - - - - - -

What do you think? Any other ideas which would be better suited for the game and meet the requirements above?

 

[GutFeeling]

Hey, just got back from travelling -- things are a little hectic right now -- I'll provide you with details of my bug within a couple of days. I can say for sure I was playing a Terra map, Large, with all other settings standard. Significant mods I had simultaneously enabled include your own fixes for Krakatoa and Rock of Gibraltar/Great Barrier Reef (utilized during map generation) and this forum's own Slavery mod by Leugi, which is currently in an alpha state. When I have time I'll replicate the settings (this time with only your own mods enabled), test to see if strategic resources are still not appearing, and provide you with a Lua log.

I think Tin is a pretty good idea; alternative icons I can suggest would be a bundle of tin wire or perhaps a blob of tin, like this:

Other ideas: clay, or exotic animals such as rhinoceroses, peacocks, or tigers? One thing I really like about your mod is that it gives representation to two important indigenous American resources, cocoa and tobacco. Perhaps do research to find a third resource that originates in the Americas?

 

[Barathor]

Updated: Front Page

 

[lockstep]

I'm late to the party and don't know if a 6th luxury would be acceptable, but I'd suggest amber.

 

[Barathor]

Five is certainly more than enough for the other mods I have planned, but I'll create icons for any other ones if anybody wants them... as long as I like it, can find nice stock art for it to manipulate, and want to take a break from gaming, modding, and other things to 'shop it up.

 

[lockstep]

I'll create icons for any other ones if anybody wants them... as long as I like it, can find nice stock art for it to manipulate, and want to take a break from gaming, modding, and other things to 'shop it up.

Amber would be yet another copper reskin -- an example (including a nice icon) can be found here. To be honest, amber seems to me more appropriate as a luxury resource than tin (which rather fits the "strategic resource" description).

Anyway, I'm still hoping for the "Optimized Luxuries" (fixes only) version of your mod so that I can start a new game on a huge map. ;-)

 

[Barathor]

Hmmm... amber would definitely be more "luxurious". And it's still different from the existing luxuries. Also, while looking up some info on it and Baltic amber, it would also be useful as I could focus it in the colder areas of the map, within forests and hills... even flat land, to help balance things. (Maybe I'll even get crafty and only allow it on flat land if it's adjacent to the coast, to signify it being washed up on shore.) Especially since, in another version, I'm restricting the sea luxuries to only random distribution, so this would help out tundra zones which contain heavy whale and crab weights within their regional list.

I already created a pretty nice icon for it, maybe I'll get to work on the terrain graphics and see how they come out. If it all works out, maybe i'll replace the tin, as I'd have no other use for it. I would still keep it dormant in the files, of course, by just commenting out its code and keeping the images on the atlases for others to use.

 

[Inawordyes]

I really enjoy seeing the work you've put into this Barathor. It's not often that you see mod resources both with this level of work put into them and that also fix oversights within the game itself.

Reading over this, though - and correct me if I'm wrong - with adding Tin, it made it so that you could include 16 Civs in a game and not have any duplicate luxuries? If you were to add Amber as suggested above, would adding an additional three luxuries on top of it would let you bring the player cap up to 20 without messing with the distribution? It would mean more work, but there are several worthy and recognizable luxuries that could be added reasonably.

I'm doing research at the moment (read: checking the Wikipedia for info on such-and-such) to look for worthy candidates in that case (and of course, it's your mod, you don't need to add any more luxuries; I'm merely offering suggestions), and so far I've come up with the following, with descriptions of why they could be considered viable option, as well as my own thoughts in regard to them within the game:

Spoiler :

• Olives - Olives hold great religious significance, appearing or being mentioned with great significance several times in both the Bible and the Quran, and are among the most-mentioned plants in literature, being expressly referred to in both the Odyssey and in the Illiad. Olives are used as a food source, and olive branches hold historical significance as being used to crown the victors of both games and even wars - but the real luxury lies in olive oil, used for everything from cooking to a fuel source, and from skin products to the anointment of priests and kings.
  
  Starting off my research by thinking of recognizable commodities, olives weren't the first I thought of, but once I had and started reading up on their history, I find myself baffled as to how they have not yet been included in the game. If you were intending to include a seventh resource after Amber at some point, Olives would definitely be my top pick for the right to that spot.
  
  
• Jade - Nowadays it is typically associated with China (I believe; don't quote me on it), but Jade was in reality found all over the world, and holds great significance to several cultures, both past and present. Historically, it was highly valued as a commodity, and was used in the crafting of ornaments, ceremonial burials, religious items, statues of important historical or religious figures, and even the hilts and handles of swords and daggers (respectively). In China especially, Jade held a significance comparable to that of Gold or Diamonds in the West, and the finest white jade was used by skilled artisans in the Chinese Imperial Court, as jade's status-value exceeded that of both Gold and Silver. In Pre-Columbian Mesoamerica it was considered a very rare and very valuable material, and was generally used in the carving of hieroglyphs and ideological practices and rituals, while it is considered as a treasure in the Maori culture, and tools and jewelry crafted from it are passed down from generation to generation.
  
  Jade may be considered as under the Gems luxury, but considering that diamonds are featured in the luxury picture, and considering now that three unique and important spices have been included with Indonesia despite the generic Spice luxury (which itself has a picture of cinnamon ...), Jade is still a viable option, and notable and worthy in its own right.
  
  
• Maple - Maple is, unsurprisingly, a valuable commodity in several different aspects: Maple Wood - particularly Sugar and Sycamore maples - give very valuable timber, and are frequently used in the making of bowling balls and pins, pool cues, baseball bats, archery recurve bows, several musical instruments due to its good sound-carrying qualities, and also frequently in the making of paper. Maple trees are a source of great tourism for Japan and several US states, and their use as Ornamental Trees give evidence of their popularity among the general populace. And this is not even counting Maple Syrup, which is used often in place of sugar and cultivated en masse due to the abundance of maple trees. Maple also holds great cultural and historical relevance, currently being represented on the National Flag of Canada.
  
  Canadian love, eh? Maples are a very plausible inclusion because almost the entirety of the tree is used to make items of varying luxuriousness, and they themselves can be considered luxury items to the point that a lot of fall tourism in places such as Japan and Northeastern North America is due to maples (referred to as the informal, obscure-termed Leaf Peeping in North America, and Momjiigari in Japan). You may have to create your own tile art for maple were you to include it, though, because I can't think of any current resource which would match it closely enough - then again, you've been very creative with the current tile art already, so I'm sure you'd think of something.
  
  
• Apples - Apples are among the most cultivated tree fruits, and have a presence in the mythos and religions of many cultures around the world - such as a symbol of love and sacredness to the Greek goddess Aphrodite, and as a representation to the Biblical forbidden fruit due to a confusion between the Latin word for "an evil" and "apple", malum, which are represented by the same word by with different accent marks (mălum and mālum, respectively). Apples are grown worldwide and in great abundance, with the highest amount of production belonging to China, and can be eaten raw, but are generally used in the making of several delicacies and cider. Crab-apples, a sister species to apples (both under the genus Malus) are popular as Ornamental trees due to their colorful blossom and fruit in Spring and Autumn, and while not cultivated as widely due to the sour taste of their fruit, are often valued in southeast Asian cultures as a sour condiment. Apple wood also gives off a pleasant scent when burned and is often used when smoking foods due to the excellent flavor it provides.
  
  An odd choice at first glance, perhaps, but apples were the first thing I thought of due to their high recognizability, so I looked them up. As it stands at the moment, however, there would be too big of an overlap between Apples and Cocoa as currently represented within your mod, as there wouldn't seem to be enough difference visually between the current reddish-brown hue of the cocoa and the bright red of the apples to easily distinguish them. A possible workaround is to change the colors of the leaves a shade of pink, referencing the many varieties of ornamental crab-apples, but I would leave the ultimate differing of that to you should you perhaps pick up apples as a possible luxury in the future.
  
  
• Rice - I don't know if I really need to explain the rationale behind this one, as mostly everybody is already aware of why rice is valuable and could be considered a luxury. It is, after all, "the most widely consumed staple food for a large part of the world's human population, especially in Asia", and "is the most important grain with regard to human nutrition and caloric intake, providing more than one fifth of the calories consumed worldwide by the human species".
  
  Certainly worthy as a luxury, if not a full-blown bonus resource. Rice, along with Corn also, are currently the only resources from Civ IV that have not yet been introduced into Civ V, which would provide additional, albeit small, reasoning in including them. Interestingly enough, paddy fields (the typical features of rice farming in Asia), greatly resemble the current improvement art for regular farms in layout, though I think this isn't all that unusual. A re-skinning of the wheat tile improvement seems to be best bet for Rice.
  
  
• Maize (Corn) - Maize, also referred to as corn, is the most widely grown crop throughout the Americas, and has the highest worldwide production of any grain (with rice coming in second and wheat coming in third). Originally cultivated throughout Mesoamerica by the Olmec and Mayans, it eventually spread through the two continents, and it was eventually carried back to Europe after first contact with the indigenous tribes, where it spread to the rest of the world. It is considered a staple food in many regions, and essential to Mexican cuisine, and is the most important of crops grown in Africa since its introduction there. Cornstarch is used as a major ingredient in home cooking, industrialized food products, and in some beers, while also a major source of cooking oil. Certain strains of corn are grown specifically for a type known as popcorn - so named because of the way its kernels explode in a pop due to heat-induced pressure - which is consumed worldwide as a snack (currently the official snack food of the US state of Illinois) and considered by some as a health food depending on the means of preparation. Approximately 40% of the total maize produce is used to make Corn Ethanol, which is used increasingly more as a bio-fuel, both as a substitute for traditional fuel sources in homes and in tandem with gasoline to decrease pollutant emissions in motor vehicles.
  
  Just as with rice, corn has certainly earned its place as a luxury - or at the very least as a bonus resource - and its exclusion from the game is very interesting. The fact that it is the highest grown grain worldwide, and due to the many hundreds of different uses it provides - all from a small little plant - it would certainly seem baffling why it was not carried over from Civ IV in some aspect. A reskin - and perhaps slight modifying - of either the Spices or Sugar tile art would seem to be the way to go in the way of its representation in the game.
  
  
• Pinnipeds (Walruses/Seals) - Often generalized as seals, the pinnipeds are a group of semi-aquatic marine, animals, to which walruses and sea lions are a part of, among others. Often found within polar and sub-polar regions, pinnipeds have been depicted in or otherwise a part of the mythology of several cultures, including but not limited to the Celts, the Inuit, and Ancient Greece; walruses specifically plays an important role in the religion and folklore of many arctic cultures. Historically, pinnipeds were hunted as a source of food by arctic peoples, but more recently were exploited by commercial seal hunters - which has lead to the extinction of several species of sea lion and monk seal, and the near-extinction of the walrus in the Atlantic - to the point where commercial sealing was just as lucrative a business as that of commercial whaling. The meat was generally preserved and eaten, tusks and bones used as tools, their blubber turned into oil for warmth and light, and their skins, pelts, and hides for the use of clothing and house and boat coverings.
  
  I chose to name them under the all-inclusive family name Pinniped because seals and walruses both could feasibly carry their own merits for inclusion, though likely for the same reason, and since they belong to the same family, it is easier to include them under one, over-arching luxury. A custom tile art would definitely have to be made in the event of their inclusion, though I am not sure whether or not it would be better for that improvement to feature a walrus or seals. Pinnipeds would also be interesting as they are semi-aquatic, meaning that like oil, they could be found both on land and in the ocean. A tundra/snow bias is a given.
  
  
• Other worthy mentions (which I don't have the time nor patience to be able to write out in addition to the above, which should not be taken as an indication that any of them are less valuable or possible as a luxury - and some of my suggestions are even equally/better suited as bonus resources, though I am not sure your mod would extend to cover that territory) include Coconuts, Coral, Honey, Palladium, Potatoes, Rhinoceros, Turquoise, and Zinc.

I just spent ... four hours(?) writing that all up. It is still, in the end however, just suggestions, and you don't have to pay heed to them as, again, it is your mod. But, if you did in the future decide to extend the number of luxuries contained within it, this is a good place to start as far as finding other worthy luxuries. Keep in mind that I am aware that Wikipedia is not exactly the most reliable place in some instances, and I apologize if some of the basis' for my arguments aren't exactly the most-truthful.

But all in all, I hope I provided some insight, and if somebody wishes to write out additional arguments for the ones mentioned, the ones name-dropped at the end, or even for ones that I didn't include; it can only help.
-
On a separate note, would you consider the possibility of uploading this mod to Civfanatics, as mtgirl already suggested on the first page? It would be a great help for those who cannot use Steam to download mods for a variety of reasons (such as myself due to bad internet).

 

[GutFeeling]

Man, that list is way better than my suggestions. I'll take solace in the fact that my suggestions only took a few minutes of research.

 

[Inawordyes]

Man, that list is way better than my suggestions. I'll take solace in the fact that my suggestions only took a few minutes of research.

Your suggestions (and a lot of boredom, heh) were actually the reason I wrote mine out. And I did my research on your suggestions too (although, thinking back, I didn't do any research on Tigers - looking at it, they definitely are worthy or luxury representation too, though I don't have the time to write out that argument), which is why rhinoceros were included in the Honorable Mention section, and I looked and researched luxuries with at least a partial basis in America (Jade, Maple, Apples, Maize, and Pinnipeds - 5/7). So really, you deserve partial credit for getting me motivated with possibilities to be able to take the time to write that all out.

 

[lockstep]

Assuming Barathor is willing to raise the no. of luxuries beyond 25, I'd suggest the following criteria for additional ones:

- Is appropriate as a luxury rather than a strategic or bonus resource (downside of Maple, Apples, Rice, Maize/Corn);
- Does not require plantation as improvement (downside of Olives, Apples);
- Can do without animation (possible downside of Pinnipeds/Seals).

From Inawordyes' list, I'd use Jade (mine or quarry improvement) and (assuming animation is dispensable) Pinnipeds/Seals (fishing boat improvement). My own favorite (besides dropping Tin in favor of Amber) would be Ebony (camp improvement, plus a luxury in the best sense).

 

[Barathor]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Especially, that lengthy one you took the time to write, Inawordyes.

That list that lockstep wrote is accurate and what I would have written. Though, it isn't black and white, and as you said, Inawordyes, apples "could" be made into a luxury. But, then one would have to ask, since we're limited, "Are there more deserving luxuries we're able to produce?" Also, ones which require something other than a plantation would be most desired right now.

Lastly, seals would be awesome and a nice throwback to the older civ games, but I'm restricted to static images and mostly just changing the color of them. (I got really lucky with that tobacco luxury!) I do some 3D modeling, but mostly buildings and never anything really curvy and organically shaped. And then animations... forget about it, I have no idea, haha.

Inawordyes, I really dig the olive luxury you mentioned, though. If I can't include any other non-plantation ones, that may be the first plantation luxury on the list.

I actually worked on both Amber and Jade last night. I'll probably finish those today. I think these two new luxuries are different enough from gems too. Amber is organic and not a mineral, and jade isn't really transparent and crystal-like as other gems like diamond, rubies, emeralds, or sapphires.

I'm going to remove tin, but I'll keep it in the files for others to use. I guess I lost a little focus on the big picture when I added tin, I was thinking more of a trade item than a luxurious trade item, haha. I just really wanted a non-plantation luxury, that could also be placed in less fertile regions.

Here's a preview of amber and jade:

Spoiler :

Much more luxurious than some tin cans (or anything else made out of tin), haha.

Most importantly, here's how they would look on the world map:

It was a really tough decision, but I went with the above jade instead of this one as it matched the style a little better and I didn't have to distort it so much to make it fit well within a circle. (The dragon will still be in the image atlas if anybody wants to use it):

EDIT: here's the amber terrain graphics:

I used "small" aluminum instead of copper; it has less blotchy colors, the ground isn't discolored, and I hate the way copper cuts into trees.

For jade, i'll use the "large" aluminum graphics.

EDIT2:

Amber will be mine luxury, and will be found in either hills or flatland, forest or clear, on tundra, plains, and grass. I "could" include it in jungle too, but there's already so many luxuries which favor the warmer, tropical areas I want to avoid it for gameplay purposes. I'm thinking of mostly Baltic amber here.

Jade will be like most other mined luxuries -- flexible. (so far; I may change my mind to balance things and restrict it a little more)

I was really torn and spent a decent amount of time trying to decide whether or not to make jade a mine luxury or a quarry luxury. I would LOVE another quarry luxury. I think jade (focusing on the jadeite version here) is more of a rock than a gemstone, right? It can be mined/quarried in huge chunks. But, I don't think it's as abundant as a marble quarry or other type of stone quarry, and the graphics for the quarry display a huge chunk of the material being worked on (quarry). Could Jade be a quarry luxury?

- - - - - - - -

I may add some more. But, one also has to remember more new luxuries further dilute the existing pool of them and interesting bonuses via buildings, religion, etc.

I already have some ideas planned:

I was initially thinking of something like "Peace Pipes" for tobacco, but instead, I think I may include it in Goddess of Festivals.

I may include amber in Tears of the Gods.

I was also thinking of creating a new one like, Divine Sculpture or something, that would give a bonus to marble, ivory, and jade (Stone Circles would only apply to stone instead of all quarries, which is okay, since stone isn't a luxury and is placed throughout the map anyway).

Something along the lines of vitality, vigor, or something to give to coffee and tea (maybe even cocoa, as mesoamericans used it, though that may be stretching it)

- - - - - - - -

I like the ebony suggestion too. Plus, it's improved with something unique. I'll try messing with it using either a camp or lumbermill. Or, maybe I can utilize the graphics from the brazilwood camp.

Coral would be a cool one if I could get it to work. Haven't tried it yet.

Also, gems could always be split up into diamonds, rubies, etc. if more luxuries were really needed.

Also, what about perfume? With roses or some type of flower to represent it. It's another plantation one, but I think its uniqueness makes it a worthy candidate. (Maybe lump it into Goddess of Love with a small culture bonus, OR recreate GoL to perfume, cocoa, and something else and create a new title for the old GoL effect.. Goddess of Fertility? Because it basically allows you to support one more population in larger cities.)

 

[lockstep]

That list that lockstep wrote is accurate and what I would have written.

I'm restricted to static images and mostly just changing the color of them. [...] I do some 3D modeling, but mostly buildings and never anything really curvy and organically shaped. And then animations... forget about it, I have no idea, haha.

Is it possible to "reskin" existing animations? One could take the Fish (bonus) resource as a basis for a Caviar luxury resource.

I'm going to remove tin[...] I guess I lost a little focus on the big picture when I added tin[...]

I applaud your decision.

Here's a preview of amber and jade

They're beautiful!

I was really torn and spent a decent amount of time trying to decide whether or not to make jade a mine luxury or a quarry luxury.

Whatever you choose for now, don't hesitate to change it to support a cool gameplay idea (like a new/modified belief).

I like the ebony suggestion too. [...] I'll try messing with it using either a camp or lumbermill.

Please *don't* use a lumbermill -- this would mean five required techs, one of them (Construction) a Classical tech. All luxuries so far need at most four Ancient techs to be improved (if you have to cut jungles to be able to build plantations).

 

[Barathor]

Please *don't* use a lumbermill -- this would mean five required techs, one of them (Construction) a Classical tech. All luxuries so far need at most four Ancient techs to be improved (if you have to cut jungles to be able to build plantations).

Thanks, I would've eventually realized that while working on it and would've had to scrap it. You saved me some time!