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Yeah, I will test it first for sure.
It will be a lot of time before I can commit a new version. I don't have much time modding&playing. Just wanna hear some opinions if I go crazy in some area.
 
Yeah, I will test it first for sure.
It will be a lot of time before I can commit a new version. I don't have much time modding&playing. Just wanna hear some opinions if I go crazy in some area.
Well, my opinion is that the cottages giving specialists is a crazy idea. In the early game, when most cities are size 3, you can spam cottages and get up to 20 specialists? It seems to me that is likely to completely take over the economy.
 
Well, my opinion is that the cottages giving specialists is a crazy idea. In the early game, when most cities are size 3, you can spam cottages and get up to 20 specialists? It seems to me that is likely to completely take over the economy.
You are right, I will exclude Cottages (as a start).
But I want to mage the Cottage line useful. Right now I find it rather useless. Farms and mine/workshops that matter in my games.
 
Right now I find it rather useless. Farms and mine/workshops that matter in my games.
This I very much agree with. Could it give you specialists only with worked cottages etc.?
 
This I very much agree with. Could it give you specialists only with worked cottages etc.?

Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. It's a pity, but it only counts improvements in city vicinity, not if they're worked. You have to ask 45* to implement such a feature.
 
Well... Taking a second thought again:

What if a level 1 city is surrounded 20 Cottages and you get 20 citizens? That's +20:hammers: but no :food: to grow the city. But it truly can be exploited badly.
If the thing starts with Hamlets than it will be more city size related. It needs more testing but I had no time for it yet.
 
Well... Taking a second thought again:

What if a level 1 city is surrounded 20 Cottages and you get 20 citizens? That's +20:hammers: but no :food: to grow the city. But it truly can be exploited badly.
If the thing starts with Hamlets than it will be more city size related. It needs more testing but I had no time for it yet.

Yes, it'd be best if it was done starting from hamlets, since it means one has to work the tiles to get their cherished specialists.
 
Exploration is a civic I don't want to ax having no real downside it is over-favored by the AI.
It has +1:science: from Merchants and +25% War:mad:
I'd like to add some production bonus for exploring units and +10% :commerce: from foreign connections, but it needs some heavy penalties to balance that. I can only think of a -50% military production. Maybe a +1:gold: per military units too? Any ideas?
 
Question: while Despotism blocks vassalage and fiefdom, why doesn't it block nobility/feudal/serfdom/etc?
 
Question: while Despotism blocks vassalage and fiefdom, why doesn't it block nobility/feudal/serfdom/etc?
I want Vassalage and Fiefdom to be "Monarchy only" civics and balance them accordingly. Vassal lords and fiefs are direct subjects of a king.
 
Manifest Destiny / Expansion:
I had a very good idea for MD but unfortunately it doesn't work :( I wanted to use the iCityOverLimitUnhappy tag with a negative number so it would produce happiness above a number of cities, but it cannot be used that way :undecide: So I think I just rename the civic and leave the actual values.

Hive:
I don't like Vokarya's implementation of Hive. His pedia says:
As populations grow ever larger, some governments may turn to drastic methods to control their people. Dystopian societies, as seen in 1984 and Brave New World, may turn to extensive propaganda, psychoactive drugs, or outright mind control. The effect is to turn the masses into mindless workers, barely distinguishable from hive insects whose only goal is to serve and protect their queen.
I don't like this Orwellian approach because tells you how the government controls its subjects and not about the structure of the society. This still can be done with a caste, a feudal, nationalist, etc society.
I wanted a more sci-fi themed civic, something like the borg from Star Trek or the advent from Sins of a Solar Empire. So I will revert the description and cut Hab Complex as a civic building.
 
A few words about civic buildings:

Rally Flag
Can only be built and operated during wartime
+0.2 :) per citizen

Festival
Since there is no more Proletariat it is not a civic building anymore
Hammer penalty axed
Happiness, gold and culture bonuses axed
Added +1 :) per 20% culture
Cost reduced to 25 (from 75)
This will turn it into a cheap building that can increase happiness with a high culture slider.

Foundling Hospital
I want to turn it from a national wonder into a regular building. Ax the +1 pop on completion and replace it with a city needs 10% less :food: to grow.

Knight's Stable
How about turning it into a civic building for Vassalage? Would cut the extra Xp above Stable but provides a free promotion that gives +10% Xp, retreat and strength.

Duchy
Would be a good choice for Fiefdom.
-25% :gold:
-25% maintenance
You have to weigh where to build it: whether it gives or takes away.

Hab Complex
This could be turned into a regular trans-human era building with the following stuff:
+3 specialists
-3 :)
-3 :health:
It would be source of virtual population.
 
So here are some more things I have in mind:

Homestead upgrades to Town-hall, so big, settled cities won't benefit from it, but still helps new cities to develop quickly.

Terrorist Compound:
axed Xp bonuses
axed unhealth and unhappiness penalties
nearby battles will not affect culture
citizens will rebell against enemy captors 200% longer
15% damage to adjecent enemy units per turn
It will be more a defensive building rather than a "prepare for war" one.

Hab Complex would become a regular building
requires Megastructure Engineering
requires Replicators and (Steel or Durasteel) and power
cost raised from 600 to 1600
+3 free specialists
+10 hammers and commerce
+1 magister slot

Skyscrapper upgrades to Hab Complex instead of Arcology and Arcology Shielding.


An other thing I have in mind is the Japanese UB: Shale Plant. I'm thinking about turning it into a regular building. It could produce Oil but would have some restrictions. For example it could require Swamp or Dessert in city vicinity. Or Coal in city vicinity.

Japan would get then Dojo, a barracks replacement with free Martial Arts promotion.

What do you think?
 
Exploration is a civic I don't want to ax having no real downside it is over-favored by the AI.
It has +1:science: from Merchants and +25% War:mad:
I'd like to add some production bonus for exploring units and +10% :commerce: from foreign connections, but it needs some heavy penalties to balance that. I can only think of a -50% military production. Maybe a +1:gold: per military units too? Any ideas?
Well... That wasn't enough according my tests. So here's what I will try next:

Exploration:
+10% science, -20% gold
-50% military unit production
+50% war weariness
+1:science: from Merchants

And here's what I have as replacement civics:

Proletariat --> Clans:
Requires Mythology
+25% maintenance for number of cities and distance to palace
+10% city deffense
+50% Xp inside borders
+1 national instability
+50% city distance instability
military units recieve 0.02Xp per turn in cities (on Normal speed)
cities need 10 more food to grow

Terrorism --> Asymmetric Warfare:
+100% Great General inside borders
+100 maintenance for number of cities and distance to palace
military units recieve 0.2Xp per turn in cities (on Normal speed)
lower unit support cost
can draft 3 units perr turn
+100% Xp inside borders
+1 local stability
-1 national stability
+50% city distance instability
-50% war weariness
+25% defense
can build Terrorist Compound
can train Terrorist and Suicide Bomber

Manifest Destiny --> Colonial:

moved from Stance to Territory
+20% maintenance on Home Continent
-50% maintenance for Overseas Cities
+1 local stability
+1 national instability
+50% city distance stability
settling more than 5 cities will cause 1 unhappiness in every cite for each one over that limit
Workers and Settlers trained 50% faster
50% faster construction of Meeting Hall, Butchery, Bakery, Doctor's Office, Forge, Police Station, Stonemason and Mill
civic building:


Hive:
I don't like Vokarya's implementation of Hive. His pedia says:
As populations grow ever larger, some governments may turn to drastic methods to control their people. Dystopian societies, as seen in 1984 and Brave New World, may turn to extensive propaganda, psychoactive drugs, or outright mind control. The effect is to turn the masses into mindless workers, barely distinguishable from hive insects whose only goal is to serve and protect their queen.
I don't like this Orwellian approach because tells you how the government controls its subjects and not about the structure of the society. This still can be done with a caste, a feudal, nationalist, etc society.
I wanted a more sci-fi themed civic, something like the borg from Star Trek or the advent from Sins of a Solar Empire. So I will revert the description and cut Hab Complex as a civic building.

Al-tough I don't like that concept as a Society civic, I really like as Media civic.
Thought-control will receive Mind-control Centre as a civic building.

I also want to introduce Forced (Labor) civic and move Labor camp to it.

I feel very close to publish a new version :)
 
How are you going to differienate that from Slavery?
+10%:hammers:
-10% :culture:
2% chance to create a slave from combat
no free or unlimited slaves, only Labor Camp allows you 5 slots
 
I've been meaning to put this out for a while now, but I've been a bit busy playtesting it for a while, see how it goes. The other day, I decided to majorly rebalance the civics majorly by setting weights to each and every variable and play around with positive and negative effects, in order to make civics which are unique from each other, useful, and balanced. Revolutions wasn't touched, however; I've only tweaked the standard modifiers.

You can find all the changes in the .docx file I made; I hope you can find something from all this. If you don't find a civic, it means it was deleted and doesn't exist.

Also, I'll include my Civ4BuildingInfos and Civ4SpecialistInfos files, because I also did changes to the civic buildings and specialists. I've neatly organized things in the former (or so I hope!), which means you can just use winmerge and compare. If you see a comment saying "my stuff", know it's just great merchant-built national wonders which work as a requirement for cultivators to be built; it's mostly an experiment. Civ4CivicInfos is also included, just because.
 

Attachments

  • Civics.docx
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THX! I'll look into it when I have som (more) time.

One thing I'v noticed: You have rearranged CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml. I know it looks better this way but I had to design things in a modular way. If someone turns OFF my module he shouldn't see "holes" in the city screen.
(Just explaining it)
 
One thing I'v noticed: You have rearranged CIV4SpecialistInfos.xml. I know it looks better this way but I had to design things in a modular way. If someone turns OFF my module he shouldn't see "holes" in the city screen.
(Just explaining it)

That's fair, mate; I just made it like that because I don't like the module system.

As an addendum, I designed specialists in this manner:
  • 1exp = 6p
  • 1:health: = 4p
  • 1:) = 4p
  • 1:food: = 2p
  • 1:hammers: = 2p
  • 1:gold: = 2p
  • 1:science: = 2p
  • 1:culture: = 1p
  • 1:espionage: = 1p
Citizen gets 2 points, non-GP-popping specialists get 4 points (slaves, androids, peasants), GP-popping specialists get 6 points (including celebrities!), and great specialists get 18 points.

Also, tagging @Vokarya because he could take a look at my work, even though it's chiefly for your thing, since he works on civics balancing too.
 
That's fair, mate; I just made it like that because I don't like the module system.
Has it's pros and cons. But once AND2 is finished and there is a finale version I can start thinking of going to non-modular having a separate mod. That would be easier to develop. But a modular mod is easier to keep updated with the main mod.

As an addendum, I designed specialists in this manner:
  • 1exp = 6p
  • 1:health: = 4p
  • 1:) = 4p
  • 1:food: = 2p
  • 1:hammers: = 2p
  • 1:gold: = 2p
  • 1:science: = 2p
  • 1:culture: = 1p
  • 1:espionage: = 1p
Citizen gets 2 points, non-GP-popping specialists get 4 points (slaves, androids, peasants), GP-popping specialists get 6 points (including celebrities!), and great specialists get 18 points.
Makes sense.
 
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