Mountain Tiles

[Sureshot]

im pretty sure you can take it a step further and make it so their units couldnt walk on flatlands too lol (theres an option for each unit to add terrains/features that they cant enter).

 

[Yorgos]

What about adding a promotion allowing units to move through peak? Mobility and Guerilla I are likely requirements. Then this promotion will be given for free to all dwarven units, and possibly to a few selected others, or even have an associated wonder/building (having all units build in a city receive this promotion for free).

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Well how about making it so dwarves can work mountain and hill tiles but not flatland tiles? If this could be done, I dont know. But if tis could be dont with the dwarves and other races that have a particular habitat that they only get good resources and production ot of favored tiles.

Man, when Unser gets here, he's going to be so , he's going to you all to death. You're forgetting the fact that we don't want to make the races unique by limiting them, we want to make them unique by making them more powerful and specialized. I think that being able to work mountain tiles doesn't nearly make up for the lack of arcane units for dwarves. Combining it with the dwarven vault might even it up a bit, but there should still be another bonus (like always-workable, unpillageable improvements).

 

[Kasdar]

Man, when Unser gets here, he's going to be so , he's going to you all to death. You're forgetting the fact that we don't want to make the races unique by limiting them, we want to make them unique by making them more powerful and specialized. I think that being able to work mountain tiles doesn't nearly make up for the lack of arcane units for dwarves. Combining it with the dwarven vault might even it up a bit, but there should still be another bonus (like always-workable, unpillageable improvements).

I was just trying to throw more ideas out there I still would rather add the ability to the dwarves to allow working mountain tiles , without limiting them to them.

 

[QES]

Man, when Unser gets here, he's going to be so , he's going to you all to death. You're forgetting the fact that we don't want to make the races unique by limiting them, we want to make them unique by making them more powerful and specialized. I think that being able to work mountain tiles doesn't nearly make up for the lack of arcane units for dwarves. Combining it with the dwarven vault might even it up a bit, but there should still be another bonus (like always-workable, unpillageable improvements).

Much like an angry dwarf that has drank too much, Unser doesnt want to see the big picture (j/k).

Mountains, as they are now, are dead spaces to most civs. The purpose here isnt moving dwarves more powerful or less powerful. And your right, we dont want to differentiate races through limitation, but since limitation and use are already part of the game (Deserts and peaks) we can simply alter WHAT dead spaces are what. If we gave dwarves access to peaks, and lack of access to a different terrain type, then its NOT limiting the dwarves, its altering the already "in place" limitations. If we alter what "dead space" is for races, we alter their general progress, we dont weaken or strengthen them, as long as the general amount of production and numbers of types of terrain available are similar.

If we opend up peaks to dwarves (and only dwarves) while cutting off floodplain, for example, and peaks provided some similar amount of income (perhaps not identical, but similar) then they lose nothing, and gain particularly nothing, but instead have a different "feel" and flavor. (Unless you consider fighting over altered resources a boon).

-Qes

 

[Civkid1991]

we can simply alter WHAT dead spaces are what. If we gave dwarves access to peaks, and lack of access to a different terrain type

Access to moutians/peeks and limited access to water tiles (no ocean movement?)

 

[QES]

Access to moutians/peeks and limited access to water tiles (no ocean movement?)

The problem (while i agree it fits the theme) is that without access to water tiles, dwarves would be stuck on whatever continent they started. THis could create MAJOR power differentials later on. This balance issue would never be mitigated.

THe solution perhaps is to deny them "normal" ships. And perhaps dwarves must hire "mercenary" vessels. In this, they'd be limited to expensive and annoying ships, but not completely eliminated from travel at sea. I still do not imagine very many desert river dwarves, Hence floodplain elimination. Granted were I to start a D&D campaign today, i'd wanna be a desert-river dwarf .
-Qes

 

[Civkid1991]

yea but thats true for many races... you rarelly see a Elf or orc taking a stroll down the nearest desert-river

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Yikes, isn't losing tier 3 and 4 spellcasters enough balance? Kael has said that he's a fan of making the Civs as a whole balanced, even if individual features aren't. Giving the dwarves access to more terrain types while restricting other things is perfectally in line with the current precedents.

 

[Sureshot]

no no, they need to be crippled more heavily since they'll have some production bonus

Khazad > Ljosalfar, so they need to be crippled until no one would consider playing them.

 

[Sareln]

no no, they need to be crippled more heavily since they'll have some production bonus

Khazad > Ljosalfar, so they need to be crippled until no one would consider playing them.

You're starting to sound like Wizards R&D (The guys who partially design new magic sets and who are universally blamed when the set is less than awesome).

 

[Sureshot]

can't say im familiar with R&D? whats that?

anyways, personally i'm of the volition that every civ should get great new bonuses all around, but the previous poster likes the lambast the Ljosalfar because of a simple +1 bonus in some conditional tiles.

so, rather than argue, i feel its better to simply try to achieve for the dwarves that which he seeks to achieve for the elves. who knows? maybe he's right and a vanillized FFH2 with every civ being equal in every respect will somehow be better.

 

[Kasdar]

can't say im familiar with R&D? whats that?

"Research and Development"

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

I'd say give the dwarves the ability to work peak tiles, but not the ability to build improvments or citys on them.

Peak tile yields could scale upwards with certain technologys.

Base yield: 1

Mining +1
Smelting +1
Metal Casting +1

Way of the Earthmother +1
Arete +1

Or whatever techs would make it comprable to other tile yields available at the time or maybe a little bit less then the mined hills yield

 

[Silverkiss]

I think it should be actually MORE than the mined hills...

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

If the tile can immediatly produce a high yield, without any worker improvement, and can't be pillaged, it should have some downside, even for the dwarves. Exact yields are really a ballance issue and I would go with Kael's strategy of making incemental changes.

Right now peaks have zero yield. Give them some low amount to see how well it works. Then decide if it should be more/less then you gave it.
I wouldn't want the dwarves to be so powerfull/synergised with peaks that they would be woefully underpowered without them.

 

[BCalchet]

I'd like to see spells affecting mountains - perhaps an earth spell to push mountains around, turn one mountain tile into several hill tiles, or just a way to blow the damn things up.

It'd be neat to be able to push a mountain into the sea, turning a coast tile to desert - building bridges, destroying enemy naval stacks, and so on.

Further uses might include dropping them on your enemies, making mountain-walls to block enemy movement, just leaving a dozen or so of them in the lands of your enemies, and so on - it'd turn mountains from annoying obstacles into a resource of sorts.

Not sure how possible these things are, but still...

 

[Chandrasekhar]

It's my personal opinion that peaks are common enough that synergizing the dwarves with them wouldn't make them nearly as specailized as, oh, say, the Lanun.

 

[Kasdar]

I thought this thread needed another look at.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I like the idea, of the dwarves bieng able to work mountains.
Why not also make the dwarves like the lanur? (seafaring people) that they get 1 less food from farms, and 1 extra food from hills? maybey a spell to, for their priests to create hills?