Mountain Tiles

[CyberChrist]

Peaks could just naturally provide 1 food/labor/commerce each(for the dwarven races only) without any need/ability for workers to build improvements.

 

[Arpymaster]

The problem with peaks are we all have in mind the images of Moria, and all the D&D/DragonLance idea of dwarven cities under the mountains.

I don't remember if in the LOTR Tolkien named surface cities for the dwarves, but the idea we all players have is dwarves should live and work inside of mountains.

If dwarfs can not work "normal" tiles, then they won't be able to grab many of the resources like grain, cows, or even iron. So giving them peaks and taking out plains, or water, in no solution.

Maybe, maybe, let them work peaks +1 +1 and with mining, arete, etc increase the and maybe gold (let them build mines in the peaks, but they would take many many many turns, as even the dwarves need years and years to build their mines/cities under the mountains).

So this would make dwarves to see peaks as an interesting option, but ... what if they couldn't irrigate? Let them work the plains, so they will have to keep growing their cities and access to the resources spawn in those tiles, but their cities won't be that big.

And thanks to the peak bonuses, the dwarfs will try to find a balance between peaks and "normal/good" terrain.

Mines in the peaks should have the old "dwarf mine", and so not be pillaged.

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Also, letting the rangers to walk on peaks meant a nasty surprise in one of my last games, when an army or rangers enterered my borders and pillage/took my cities.

 

[Sureshot]

rangers are recon, and can't pillage, but they can take cities, but they aren't too effective at it.

 

[Arpymaster]

When your inner cities behind a wall of soldiers fortified on hills only have a unit or two... even a ranger can take such a city
And being in a war against 3-5 AIs didn't help either.

What do you thing about my peaks/no irrigation idea?

 

[Sureshot]

i think lanun set a good precedent, just do -1 food on farms and make mountain tiles self-sufficient with a bonus.

like, sea water tiles for lanun are 2 food, 2 commerce. make mountains 2 food, 1 production, 1 commerce. then the tile can support its population point, and provide some production/commerce. bonus production and commerce from techs or buildings then could help it out, the way that lighthouses and financial help out lanun.

mining would be necessary to work them
arete could add +1 production, forge could add +1 commerce
in the end it could be something like 2 food, 2 production, 2 commerce.

dwarven should also allow walking on peaks.. i thought that was supposed to be in a long time ago, but ive never seen it work, though i don't play dwarves much myself.

 

[Arpymaster]

Dwarven maceman walked on peaks several versions ago... I haven't reach them (investigate their tech) again in my last games to check them

 

[Sureshot]

ah thats nice, ive made their macemen but never played them enough to try walking on peaks with them heh

 

[Arpymaster]

I think I found it by chance, when they took the fastest route to their destiny by walking over a peak

 

[vorshlumpf]

I'm not sure if they've ever walked on peaks. Perhaps you had a dwarven ranger or druid?

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

I like peaks in civ 4, because they allow choke points. I think dwarves and RoK should get a production or gold bonus from peaks. I think having improvments would require you to make your workers to travle over impassible, and so could go over ice as well, which would be wierd.

 

[kenken244]

no they couldnt go over ice because ice is a water overlay and dwarven workers arnt naval units

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Just so you know, you actually can work any peak tile that has any yields. Peaks just don't normally have yields, and they are hardcoded so that you can't give them yields in XML. You also can't give them extra yields with techs though xml, allow resources to show up there (well, guess mapscripts might be able to), or ever build improvements there (even on resources).

You can allow roads to be built there (by workers that can move impassible) if you change the <bWater> tag, and you can change visibility and movement costs. Also, yields, bonuses, and improvements are not too hard to add in Python. (For some reason I've had trouble placing roads in python, but I'm not sure why.) I not quite sure how Rhye's lets the Incans get extra food from peaks, but it could probably be copied.


For a long time I've been changing Motherlode to give extra yields from peaks within your borders, and also make resources (gold, gems, copper, iron, mithril, marbe) and improvements (mines, quarries) show up there. In an earlier version, I tied the same effect to completing a new Khazad UB. Hmm...now that I think of it, a repeatable ritual might have been a better idea.

I'm letting units following RoK and serving RoK civs get xienwolf's Mountaineer promotion, letting them move though impassible. I know it will require Arete, but I'm not sure of the promotion prereqs yet. I do think that Dwarven should be an Or prereq though, so dwarves can get it sooner. Stonewardens will probably start with it. In my 0.32-based modmod, I'm planning to give stonewardens a new spell: Delve. This can be cast on hills or peaks, and will take several turns to cast. It will have a chance of discovering gems/gold/copper/iron/mithril/marble and building a mine/quarry and a road on the tile. There may also be a small chance of directly boosting the tile's yields. I'll also consider having it add mushrooms, especially when cast by a dwarf. It won't always be successful. Sometimes it it merely fail, and sometimes it may have more dire consequences (like causing earthquakes and awakening Barbarian Balors)

 

[civ_king]

what about some tech that allows like mushroom farming in mountains? and a super breed of mushrooms? so 1/2/0 normally and 3/1/1 with mushrooms?
(food/production/commerce)

 

[B0b1n4t3r]

I got an idea that i think would make alot of sense, taking inspiration from the lanun, let Dwarfs build their version of a pirate cove. It would probabaly start as a deep mine then upgrade to a shaft mine then a dwarfen hall and lastly a mountian fortress or something. it would provide similar boost as a pirate cove just built on a mountain. it would provide production and commerce depending on its level and couldnt be built within 3 spaces of another it would also provide a defensive bonus and maybe has a chance to discover minerals. i dont see any problems with this and it is not overpowering in any way.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, it would have to work though a spell using python and the units that build it (presumable Dwarven workers) would have to be able to move impassible. I'm fine with this, but I still prefer the Delve spell for Stonewardens.

 

[B0b1n4t3r]

The delve spell sounds like a good idea for the dwarves and the mushroom reasource would be a cool unique reasource for the dwarfs. (maybe even make mushrooms appear on hills) are you planning on just putting down a mine to get access to mushrrooms or what sort of improvement?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Actually, Kael has added mushrooms as an improvement (similar to penguins I'd guess) instead of a resource. I don't really want to go though the trouble of making a new resource (especially if there is an improvement by the same name), so I'll probably just use his. I'm guessing it will give a food bonus. For all we know, it will automatically appear on peaks.

 

[schlalex]

As Magister said, i could not just give peaks yields via XML.
So how ist it possible to do that?
Anyone has an idea?

 

[ShadowOfADoubt]

I had another thought for peaks which might be good. The Khazzad would have a "Dwarven Digging Team" or some such thing. This unit would be able to move on peaks, and build the "Dwarven Keep" in peaks which would be a special type of city.

This would be where the Khazzad keep all their hard earned treasure. It would not produce anything but it would be required for the Khazzad to get their Gold bonus. The bonus could be given in the current way, or through a mechanic like the dragon's hoard. If the keep is taken in battle, then the conqueror would either take all of the gold, or get the bonus themselves.

Being an underground city it would have very high defence, but it would be good if we could limit the number of units allowed in the city at one time.

This could make for some interesting strategic choices...

 

[Verily]

As Magister said, i could not just give peaks yields via XML.
So how ist it possible to do that?
Anyone has an idea?

Send a message to Rhye. He managed to do it for Rhye's of Civilization.