Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
How about making japanese horses smaller ?
Atleast in WorldMap.
Atleast in WorldMap.
Mounted Units
- Thread starter Houman
- Start date
Zharahk
Chieftain
Cavalry should have a choice to upgrade to an early tank (armored cav) or gunship (air cav).
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
No it shdnt. Its like turning tank into airplane.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Zharahk said:
Zharahk,
Yeap, why not ? Between 1919 and 1939 most of the French Cavalry Divisions were upgraded with Light Tanks. The US 1st Cav. is an Helicopters division if i'm right. I'm a retired soldier from the oldest Heavy Cavalry Regiment of the French Army. My regiment (1st Regiment of Cuirassiers) was raised in 1635 during the Thirty Years War. We not use horses
but the very powerful Leclerc MBT 
(55 tons, 120mm main gun, 20mm secondary gun, speed of 70 km/h).The Avatar i use (seen on the left under my name) is the badge of my old regiment.
So, i agree with you.
The Frog.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
stay
Zharahk
Chieftain
I was a tanker too in the US Army a long, long time ago (M60A3s).
I remember a funny story about when the Soviets first deployed the Hind helicoptor gunship. Both the Soviet Army and Air Force wanted it, but how to decide who got it? The head of their military (I forget who it was) had them place a Hind out on a runway with an airplane on one side and a tank on the other. "It looks more like a tank", he said so the Army got it.
I remember a funny story about when the Soviets first deployed the Hind helicoptor gunship. Both the Soviet Army and Air Force wanted it, but how to decide who got it? The head of their military (I forget who it was) had them place a Hind out on a runway with an airplane on one side and a tank on the other. "It looks more like a tank", he said so the Army got it.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Zharahk said:I was a tanker too in the US Army a long, long time ago (M60A3s).
I remember a funny story about when the Soviets first deployed the Hind helicoptor gunship. Both the Soviet Army and Air Force wanted it, but how to decide who got it? The head of their military (I forget who it was) had them place a Hind out on a runway with an airplane on one side and a tank on the other. "It looks more like a tank", he said so the Army got it.
Hi Zharahk,
It must be a long long time ago if you were in a M60A3 Patton !!! A good tank inded, only a bit too high/tall: an easy target ! Was it not the MBT used in Vietnam ?
The Frog
Zharahk
Chieftain
No. The M60 or M60A1 might have seen action in Vietnam, but I think the M60A3 came out in late 70's. My last unit was 2nd Inf Div in Korea, and when I showed up in 1984 they were just swapping out the M49A5s for M60A3s. I think some US Marine tank units were the last units to use the M60A3s, and now they all use the M1s.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
As it is now, cavalry upgrade tree is a bit short compared to infantry. Also, knights' longevity on the battlefield is a bit excessive - introduction of firearms-wielding cavalry in Europe happened in XV century already, almost simultaneously with infantry.
What I offer is an intermediate upgrade between the knight and the cavalry, coming with gunpowder - a cuirassier. 12
, 2 
, 130 
, +50% vs. melee, +25% attack vs. gunpowder, +50% attack vs. siege units. Requires horse, saltpeter, iron (still armored) and horseback riding, using this model:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1682
What I offer is an intermediate upgrade between the knight and the cavalry, coming with gunpowder - a cuirassier. 12
, 2 , 130 , +50% vs. melee, +25% attack vs. gunpowder, +50% attack vs. siege units. Requires horse, saltpeter, iron (still armored) and horseback riding, using this model:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1682
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
I have to agree with Hian and Zharahk on this one.
Anaztazioch may have a point in that tanks don't magically transform into airplanes, but then horses don't magically change into helicopter gunships either do they? Yet they do in the game...
As if we need a third example, my old unit (A Sqn, 10th Light Horse) first REALLY entered modern warfare when they upgraded from the traditional early 20C Mounted Infantry to M3 Grants back in 1943. From there they've used a variety of vehicles including Saracens, Scorpion MRVs, M113AS1's (think the traditional M113 with a fully enclosed Turret and .30/.50 dual mounted weapons and finally back using a LRPV... basically a 6 wheeled landrover.
The point being? Things change doctrinally, but the character of a unit often doesn't. None of the changes a given unit will go through happen without a great deal of refit (if not a complete refit). I think the representation of cavalry units to tank units in the game is fair enough.... although I'm sure there are some equally good arguments not to have cav-tank upgrade, I'm yet to see those arguments rationally put forward. When I see it, I might change my mind or I might not...
Anyone wanna play Devil's Advocate?
Anaztazioch may have a point in that tanks don't magically transform into airplanes, but then horses don't magically change into helicopter gunships either do they? Yet they do in the game...
As if we need a third example, my old unit (A Sqn, 10th Light Horse) first REALLY entered modern warfare when they upgraded from the traditional early 20C Mounted Infantry to M3 Grants back in 1943. From there they've used a variety of vehicles including Saracens, Scorpion MRVs, M113AS1's (think the traditional M113 with a fully enclosed Turret and .30/.50 dual mounted weapons and finally back using a LRPV... basically a 6 wheeled landrover.
The point being? Things change doctrinally, but the character of a unit often doesn't. None of the changes a given unit will go through happen without a great deal of refit (if not a complete refit). I think the representation of cavalry units to tank units in the game is fair enough.... although I'm sure there are some equally good arguments not to have cav-tank upgrade, I'm yet to see those arguments rationally put forward. When I see it, I might change my mind or I might not...
Anyone wanna play Devil's Advocate?
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
I guess, that would be me, then. I think, cavalry not upgrading to tanks is a gameplay decision. This way, when you discover these magnificent war machines, you always have to BUILD them. In your cities, on your factories. Just giving your horsemen the money and telling them to get those armored contraptions somewhere just looks funny to me. For cavalry division to turn to armored, you first have to have tanks to supply to them.
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
Very true. But isn't that cost, ie the "production" of those tanks, as well as the cost of retraining those cavalrymen to drive tanks instead of riding horses represented somewhat in the cost of the unit upgrade?
Maybe make cavalry upgradable to tank, but have the Whippet, Mark V and A7V either upgrade to Tank units at a discount, or charge extra for the upgrade from Cavalry to Tanks?
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Guys,
Interesting to read. In France our Cavalry Regiment were upgraded to Light-Medium Tank Regiment in the 30's, just before WW II. It was nearly the same cost for the French Army to have a true Cavalry Regiment and a "modern" (with Tanks, i mean) Cavalry Regiment. But on the battlefield it was very different: these regiments were among the few that made something to resist to the German Army. They were all destroyed after a 3 day battle on the Belgium frontier. Meanwhile, the loss ratio was 1 French vs 0.8 German. Not so bad when you know that these regiment were mostly destroyed because of Stuka and PAK 88.
So yes, a cavalry regiment can upgrade to a tank one.
Hian the Frog.
Interesting to read. In France our Cavalry Regiment were upgraded to Light-Medium Tank Regiment in the 30's, just before WW II. It was nearly the same cost for the French Army to have a true Cavalry Regiment and a "modern" (with Tanks, i mean) Cavalry Regiment. But on the battlefield it was very different: these regiments were among the few that made something to resist to the German Army. They were all destroyed after a 3 day battle on the Belgium frontier. Meanwhile, the loss ratio was 1 French vs 0.8 German. Not so bad when you know that these regiment were mostly destroyed because of Stuka and PAK 88.
So yes, a cavalry regiment can upgrade to a tank one.
Hian the Frog.
Laurencius
Just a tourist.
I have been playing the Spanish and noticed that the cuirassers update into cavalry, but the cavalry unit for the Spanish looks like musketmen on horse. They look more like 15th century mounted units than 19th century ones.
Excellent job on the cuirassers and conquistadors.
Excellent job on the cuirassers and conquistadors.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Same in Italy, now our cavalry is on tanks, and still is called cavalry.
I find this more "real" than upgrade cavalry to Gunships.
And if i'm not wrong in the USA is the same, the legendary 7th cavalry is a tank division.
I find this more "real" than upgrade cavalry to Gunships.
And if i'm not wrong in the USA is the same, the legendary 7th cavalry is a tank division.
