Mutual Protection Pacts

[skisphereo]

If I'm in a MPP with another civ and someone acts that civ and I am forced to declare war on the aggressor, how long do I have to wait until I can make peace? The usual 20 turns like in a military alliance? Or can I do it as soon as I cancel the MPP?

 

[Abegweit]

Never make an MPP. It's only trouble.

MAs are fine.

 

[berserks01]

I think as soon as your MPP runs out and you don't renew it, you can stop the war.

 

[Tomoyo]

You can make peace without ruining your reputation. It's when you are forced to declare war again the next turn because of the MPP that your reputation is destroyed, and you're still at war.

 

[vmxa]

Ah, the catch 22 of of MPP's and wars. Get out of the MPP when the 20 turns comes up. Do not make peace until the MPP is gone or your MPP partner has make peace and even that is shakey as they may turn around and declare again.

 

[Nata]

You can justt attack the Civ you signed MPP with - that would cancel it for sure. Of course that depends on a situation, but I did it - when things got really desperate and I'd rather face war with MPP buddy then with a bunch of other AI he drags in.

 

[greekguy]

You can end it whenever you like, as long as you don't care about a rep hit.

 

[killercane]

It has often baffled me that the AI will not agree to an alliance against civ X but will agree to an MPP, knowing full well I am at war with Civ X and they will be pulled in on the next turn.

 

[Tone]

You can end it whenever you like, as long as you don't care about a rep hit.

See Tomoyo's post. You can end the war but you cannot cancel the MPP before the twenty turns are up and so you'll be at war the next time anyone attacks your MPP buddy before you cancel after 20+ turns are up and in the meantime this could very well trash your rep.

MPPs are a very serious decision to make as you cannot break your commitment to the deal under any circumstances except of course the elimination of your 'partner'.

 

[SJ Frank]

It has often baffled me that the AI will not agree to an alliance against civ X but will agree to an MPP, knowing full well I am at war with Civ X and they will be pulled in on the next turn.

Alliance is always more expensive than MPP. If they refuse alliance but accept MPP, then you’re probably not offering enough money. You should try lowering science a few notches and offering some of the resulting gpt’s. It’s worth it.

 

[vmxa]

It sort of makes sense, if you think of it as an alliance is more like a hired gun and an MPP is more like a partner.

 

[killercane]

Maybe so. I was thinking of it from their point of view, eg Civ Y is strong or we get luxuries/have deals with civ Y, so we dont want to go to war with them. The advisor usually considers my partner stronger than me, so he would benefit less from an MPP than an MA against civ Y, wouldnt you think?

 

[SJ Frank]

I don't think it's as complicated as having the AI calculating the benefit of the alliance or the MPP for themselves. I think alliance being more expensive than MPP is a game design decision made by the programmers.

Looking at it from a game mechanic point of view, alliance and MPP both accomplish the same task -- getting some military help. MPP has the drawback that it could get you into unwanted wars, while both share the drawback that they lock you into 20 turns of war. Comparing the two, alliance is clearly the better choice, therefore it must be made more expensive. It's a classic strategic game choice of price vs. risk. Pay less, and you get a weapon that could back-fire on you. Want a top-of-the-line weapon? Well, it'll cost you an arm and a leg

According to this line of thinking, choice of alliance vs. MPP is about risk management. When it's down to just 3 civs, there is no risk, so MPP is the choice. When risk can be easily managed, like when you're strong enough that you don't care if rest of the world declare on you, then MPP is the better choice. There are also times when you have nothing to lose, like the "if I can't win this war then it's game over in 20 turns" kind of situations. Well then, risk be damned. It’s time for International MPP Day!

In the other more "normal" situations, it's a matter of personal experience. I have had the pleasure of watching a MPP blowing up in my face . The game went from ho-hum to O.M.G. to W.T.F. in a few short turns. That's why I swear off MPP's, and I think if people play long enough, eventually everybody will get to share the MPP Experience, like skisphereo just did.

 

[Stephan Hoyer]

In one of my recent games, I thought the AI on the other continent was way too damn peaceful (this was on demi-god) for my taste. So I signed up the most powerful one in a MPP against the last remaining civ on my continent (the celts) who I had down to maybe 5 cities. Once there were only two cities left, I made peace with the celts and decided to keep them around as war-bait. I signed an ROP and blockaded all their coastline and borders with my troops.

The AI I had the MPP with signed in every other AI, and for a period of maybe 30-40 turns, the AI was constantly landing troops on my land and sitting there blocked in as they attempted to finish off the celts. The Byzantines had a fleet of something like 50 galleons/frigates at one point that lead their invasion and that I saw moving through my waters . Eventually everyone made peace and I took the last two celt cities in one turn.

 

[gunkulator]

I'll sometimes sign an MPP with a weak AI if I can get something good out of it AND I can be sure that they'll break it almost immediately. If I'm about to start a war with Civ A, I'll look around to see if there exists a Civ B, such that Civ B is weak and has an existing MPP with Civ A and has something I could get by signing an MPP with them. In such a convoluted case, go ahead and sign the MPP with Civ B, declare war on Civ A and attack them in their territory. Civ B is forced to declare war on you which breaks the MPP between you and B. The MPP can be over and done with on the very turn you make it!