My first game on impossible [MoO2]

n0cx

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
22
Hey there,

do you know that feeling when you remember a game you played a long, long time ago all of a sudden and then start wanting to play it again? And do you also know the feeling of ecstasy and enthusiasm when you realise that this game is SO much better and much more complex than you remember it? Well, if you know these feelings, then you'll know how the last one or two weeks of my spare-time playing MoO2 were.

After a few attempts of getting used to the game again and trying different race picks, I figured that I really like Demovore; because of the tech-advantage and the rather easy early-game considering micro-management, it's a nice way to get going again. So, I tried playing Demovore on normal, which was way too easy, I did a game on hard, which was also a total stompfest (won the game rather late in the mid-300s, because I wanted to kill all seven AIs and the Antarans). Then I decided to try a game on impossible:

For my first attempt on impossible, I thought I could try to go with Demo, Litho, Artifacts and the usual negative picks. In my earlier games, I went with LRHW/RHW instead of Artifacts, but I thought Artifacts would be nice for turtling in and taking Orion quite early in the game.
I started a little left of the map's centre. Good position for reaching Orion quickly, but too many possible aggressive AIs around, but I gave it a try, because my homeworld's system was quite okay. The start went very well, I quickly built two more colonies, maxed out my HW's pop, got labs, got factories, got Mercs, EMG and so on. Made first contact with the Klackons, next Meklars, Elerians and Gnols. Found Orion quickly, also found a nice planet next to my HW. Then I made the first major mistake: when I tried to take Orion, my fleet wasn't strong enough. Okay, to be honest, I haven't read any guide on taking out the Guardian with a minimal fleet. I should have and I had to learn it the hard way by loosing almost my entire fleet. Which was really bad because of the time and production losses.
As I went on and, eventually, was successfull in taking out the Guardian, it just took me a few more turns to realise my second major mistake: spy defense. Right after taking down the Guardian, the AIs started the hell of a spy-war on me and stole X-armour and Deathrays. Yay! Okay, by now I know that half a dozen of defensive agents with the Demo-penalty and just a few spy-techs aren't enough to keep the Orion-tech for me... now...:rolleyes:
After Orion things started to get complicated. Because of the spy-war, I thought it migth be an idea to wipe out some of my tech-stealing neighbours and went on war with the Klackons. (Mistake number three?) Whilst battling with them, the Gnols decided to jump in and that's the point when things got really messed up; the Avenger and my fleet were too far away from my precious planets the Gnols attacked (and the planets, furthermore, destroyed instead of just being invaded), so that I decided that the only way that I could avoid total destruction was a counter-attack on the Gnols. I knew I could easily wipe out planets with a single Titan or at least two and, needless to say, the Avenger alone could wipe out planets all by itself. My counter worked, but not as well as I had hoped - I lost several planets to the Gnols before they surrendered. They surrendered, you might ask, that's a good thing, isn't it? Yes, it's a good thing... if you're the Coid AI. Which brings me to the situation as it is by now: I've lost several very well developed planets to Gnol-battlefleets and nearly lost the game, but managed to survive somehow. My economy and research are nearly non-existent, although rebuilding shouldn't take too much time because there are some nice ultra-rich planets waiting to get colonized.
demo03.jpg

demo02.jpg

But it takes time at all and that's the problem; Coids are now 1/3 of the map and getting stronger, Mrrshan will probably fall to the Coids, making them even more stronger, and Meklars are peaceful for now, but spying b*tches, just waiting in line to see a moment of weakness to start a war on me:
demo01.jpg


So, what would you do? I guess, I try turtling in a bit, get my economy going again ASAP and then try winning the game by defeating the Antarans.

_n0cx

edit: sorry, if my English is bad, haven't written or spoken it in a while
 
I get that same feeling when I go back to MoO3 with Bhruic's MoO3Patcher and Patches installed.

JosEPh :)
 
Glad you are having fun with Moo2. The Guardian has 10,000 HP on Impossible and is quite strong. Many fleet comps can work, I usually wait for Phasors and send 6 battleships. It is an easy kill then. Wait much longer and someone else will take it down.

Looks like you are not making many RP's so techs will be hard to get. If you are down many I would try some spies, cheap enough and may get you some. Humans should be able to have some decent relation and some research treaties.

Are you using repulsive and not able to make them? I use that and never make treaties, but it one of the pluses for Humans.

If you want to turtle, then Gaia would be a better choice than Mutation.

BTW your english is just fine.

I am not able to easily tell what the techs are in the tree. Looks like Construction is Adv City Plan and the 2 in that level. Chemistry is into future techs? Anyway I would look to see how much time it takes to get to Star gates, so I could get all my to any planet to defend.

If too long, focus on improve planet size and production to make defenses and fleets. Turtle is fine for creative, not so great otherwise as you have to skip some techs that would be beneficial.
 
Welcome back to MOO2! I am experiencing the same type of feeling after returning to this ATG. My strategy is to attack Orion with Plasma Web-equipted battleships. :goodjob:
 
Glad you are having fun with Moo2. The Guardian has 10,000 HP on Impossible and is quite strong. Many fleet comps can work, I usually wait for Phasors and send 6 battleships. It is an easy kill then.
That's almost what I did; battleships with phasors and a load of cruisers with MIRV EMG Mercs and the two shots per turn missile racks.

Looks like you are not making many RP's so techs will be hard to get. If you are down many I would try some spies, cheap enough and may get you some.
I thought about spying on the Meklars or Mrrshan to get some techs I don't have (especially shield-techs, better scanners or some def-buildings like rocket bases or the planetary missile bases) and be able to research more into another direction. That my RP are shrunk to almost nothing is because that's just the RP of the few remaining Autolabs. As I said, I lost several planets and got almost totally overrun by the Gnols. (Before the war I had ~2.5k RP)

Are you using repulsive and not able to make them?
Yes, repulsive, -def and -ground combat. Maybe I should give it a thought to take low-G the next attempt or focus more on spy defense before taking Orion to avoid such a mess up like in my ongoing game.

If you want to turtle, then Gaia would be a better choice than Mutation.
Well, I started Mutation before the war because I had some serious issues with the upkeep of my fleet and wanted to take warlord. Switching to Gaia might be an idea, but I also thought about ignoring adv. city plan and instead researching the star fortress to improve my colonies' defensive potential. This plus getting Stargates ASAP should make me able to manage to turtle myself in long enough to get going again. Hopefully.

BTW your english is just fine.
Yay! :)

I am not able to easily tell what the techs are in the tree. Looks like Construction is Adv City Plan and the 2 in that level. Chemistry is into future techs? Anyway I would look to see how much time it takes to get to Star gates, so I could get all my to any planet to defend.
Yes, it's adv. city plans, anti matter drives, chemistry future tech I, planetary stock exchange, android farmers and scientists (btw, android scientists? should I give them a thought to have some more RP whilst having more of my people free for re-building?), Evo/Gaia, Plasma rifles / Plasma webs and shields level one / mass drivers. (Yes, I totally skipped shields. Yes, this was a bad idea. And yes, I hoped for damper fields as Orion-tech.)

Thanks so far! Oh, I can upload a save-game, if anyone's interested in trying to get things sorted by their own and giving me some inside-detail advice.

_n0cx
 
Yeah post it and I will try to load it. May take some time as I seem to be driven to play Diablo3 still. Bought an alpha version of Star Lords and only managed to install it and not even play any. That is how bad it is, trying to get my last three levels for Paragon 100. Need nearly a billion XP so it takes time.

I have maybe 6 games started that I have not got back to now, Civ3 (Sid CCM try), Might and Magic 8, Armada Supernova just to name a few. Not to mention all these post for Moo2 has me wanting to fire it up. Oh I do also have a nearly finished Moo3 game and Joesphs save. :D
 
I have maybe 6 games started that I have not got back to now, Civ3 (Sid CCM try), Might and Magic 8, Armada Supernova just to name a few. Not to mention all these post for Moo2 has me wanting to fire it up. Oh I do also have a nearly finished Moo3 game and Joesphs save. :D
I cannot decide, whether you have too much spare time or just not enough... :lol:

Anyway, here's the savegame.

I'm gonna go and try handling my messed up situation again!

_n0cx

edit:
Oh, and I just realise that I'm playing version 1.3 - Should get the patch and upload it again...
 

Attachments

I am retired, so I have all day. Yes, use 1.31 as that is the last one from Micropose. Hope the save will load in my 1.31 version.
 
Does it work? I installed the patch and can upload the savegame again. (Ha!, now my MoO is English! Which was a little confusing when I started it after patching, but I will get used to it.)

And I have some good news: I did it! I won by defeating the Antarens! Yes! All it took was to play defensively, put a little effort in micro-management (pop 1 colonies to max out and develop my ultra rich and my research colonies ASAP) and then build a little fleet. Death rays & plasma webs ftw! :cool: Unfortunately, I didn't make a screenshot of the highscore at the end, but the game lasted about 320-330 turns, I eliminated three other players and had about 180 colonists.
93399585.jpg


_n0cx
 
So, what did I do? I colonised a terran rich 16 pop planet in Kholdan system, quickly another terran 12 pop in the same system, built a CB for a third colony in my HW's system and, furthermore, colonised another ultra-rich gaia in Kif system. My main goal was to get autolabs on all colonies running again ASAP and to fully develop my ultra-rich colonies for fleet production. In between I set my focus on research again, reaching 1.5k RP after all. After researching android scientists and star fortresses (which I wouldn't have needed at last, but I wanted to be on the safe side), I concentrated on physics to get star gates. I built up a fleet consisting of five or six cruisers with plasma webs, about the same amount of battleships with death rays and 5 titans with each five plasma webs and a mix of normal and heavy death rays. By the time star gates were researched, these 17 ships plus the Avenger were ready to rumble, I activated my dimensional portal and the final battle began. Although I lost about 3/4 of the fleet, it was an easy battle, thus making me the undisputed Master of Orion. Okay, that might be a little exaggerated, but it's my first victory on impossible, so I want to celebrate it. :D

edit:
That's what it looked like before attacking Antares:
Spoiler :
demove03.jpg


demove02.jpg


demove01.jpg


_n0cx
 
Yes I was able to load it and make changes and such. Glad it worked out.

Here is what I was planning as my goal would have been to kill of the others.

First I see some transports and you are over CP limit, so scrap them, till you need them. 75bc right now and save 1 CP.

I looked a ship and it had all Death rays. I never use them, they probably are fine, but...

Ouch, Kom III has all pop on production and is on trade goods? Just trying to gen up some cash I guess, but not going to gain you much. Research or guns is what you need.

How did you get to this point and no leaders to speak of, did they die in combat? I know you are repulsive, still usually get several of both types by this point.

Why did you found the poor planet in Sol, rather than the artifact one? Was it a colony at one time and was glassed?

As a repulsive I can expect to be attacked and any planet without defenses is a target. You have 6 systems, 4 are without any planetary defense, 3 have a lone ship that probably cannot win much of a fight. Essentially they are are defenseless. You are
founding a 5th one and Sol will soon add a second that is defensless. Komi and Sol have only a star base, it is nearly 300 turns in.

Usually the AI will have large fleets now and can smash throught planets, even with star fortress. You have to have ships to come to defend.

You need so much, I guess I would switch to Stock Exchanges for the cash as they can be research quickly. Then go for Adv City to get bigger. The star forts cannot help enough. You need to research and then build them and with no backup, they will not be able to defend. By backup I mean missile bases, Ground batteries, Fighter garrisons.

Put all spies on Coids and try to get some steals. If you get caught, game over. If you fail game over anyway, unless the AI leaves you alone. I choose them as they have no active spies and have planetary missile and several other techs you need.

Design new ship to replace Guardian. No fuel tanks, please. I make it with reflectors and it has the best missiles you have in 2 shot racks with fast racks. This will fire and fleet. Redesign Jaguar to be the dither ship. IOW it will stay till the missiles hit and
then flee or fight.

You have no computers, so beams are of little value right now. They will not hit anything to speak of, mostly miss. Plus I would prefer to use Hv beams to stay out of range as long as I can. Your beams all have range penalties. I do not use Plasma
Cannons as they are not effiecient and they have the range issue. Wish you had phasors or disrupters.

Jaguar did not even have a reinforced hull? Add that and replace Death rays with 5 gravs Hv so they can shoot at range. Not going to hurt anyone, just want to try to survive till missiles hit.

Would have been nice to have better missile than Mercs, but those are the breaks. I would prefer to use beam, but a +25 comp will not be of use.

Refit at Komi the Jaguar and move all pop to research, save one.
Yekub switch to pollution proicessor.

******

You just want to be able to put up a defense and try to grow planets and increase research. Then go for a come back.
 
vmxa, thank you for your input. Much of the desastrous situation in the savegame is because it's made just after the Klackon-conquest, which was followed without interruption by the Gnol-attack on me and all of it almost without interruption after taking Orion. I learned a lesson from that. I was too aggressive and my ships weren't so great. The rest of the situation is due to lacking experience for my part.

How did you get to this point and no leaders to speak of, did they die in combat? I know you are repulsive, still usually get several of both types by this point.
I didn't have very good leaders and the ones I had died in die Gnol-conquest.

Why did you found the poor planet in Sol, rather than the artifact one? Was it a colony at one time and was glassed?
The poor planet in Sol has been the former third colony of this system, whilst the artifact planet has been the HW. Until the Gnol-attack. I cannot stress enough to say that I hardly managed to survive this war with my fleets all over the Klackon-planets. Another lesson learned: watch your back.

As a repulsive I can expect to be attacked and any planet without defenses is a target. (...) Usually the AI will have large fleets now and can smash throught planets, even with star fortress. You have to have ships to come to defend.
Astonishingly, the AI didn't bother me whilst turtling in. I would've expected at least the Mrrshan try starting a war, but however none of the AIs had the guts to. They were too busy fighting each other in alternating relations.

Design new ship to replace Guardian. No fuel tanks, please. I make it with reflectors and it has the best missiles you have in 2 shot racks with fast racks. This will fire and fleet. Redesign Jaguar to be the dither ship. IOW it will stay till the missiles hit and then flee or fight.
Pre-war relict. Forgot to research some decent fuel tech and, IIRC, there was no way to set up an outpost proper to my Deuts range. As I think about it... perhaps I made another mistake there... ^^

I looked a ship and it had all Death rays. I never use them, they probably are fine, but... (...) You have no computers, so beams are of little value right now. They will not hit anything to speak of, mostly miss.
I haven't compared the difference to better computers, but the feeling I got from playing with these ships just a few hours ago, is that it's as if equipping battle scanners is quite sufficient and I didn't miss too much. But I'm not really sure about this.
edit: I'm a big fan of disruptors by the way

You just want to be able to put up a defense and try to grow planets and increase research. Then go for a come back.
Yessir, I did that! ;)
Although my way of doing it was far from perfection... but I'm just playing for two weeks and every game is a lesson. Even in the most basic game's mechanics. :)

Did you "just" take a look at the game or did try, how fast you could turn the tide and win?

_n0cx
 
Just ran one turn to see, if the game would play. It became english, so played normally. Will probably come back to at some point. It really will depend on the steals and when they come for me.

I ran into a lets play on one of my old favorite games and now I want fire it up as well, Ascendancy. Going to play a race I never tried, when I can get to it. The Logic Factory made a version last year for iOS, so I was hoping they would update this game for the PC, sigh.

Not to mention I picked up the bundle for Disciples II a few days ago and only managed to install it. A fun game that I played a lot of version I and II, but not III.
 
Sounds like a lot to do. Have fun! :)

These days I will start another game and make notes and screenshots to publish my progress here, I think.

_n0cx
 
Good win. Often if you aren't continuously attacked by a couple more AI's you can make a nice recovery and go to Antares to win.

The best start for Demolith (Demovore) is to build labs to further enhance research and then build factories and then build your colony bases. It takes too long for non-production races to build CB's early without factories. It is very slightly best for Demovore to build labs first and then factories vs visa versa and yes, I've tested it a few times and also done the math.

Super production races like UniTol are significantly stronger at Impossible vs AI's but I think you may find that too easy.

Once you are continually smashing the AI's with custom races I suggest trying standard races. This will be a big challange for you and will also force you to improve your game play. Since you're used to being repulsive I suggest starting with Coids which, IMHO are the easiest race for mortals to play vs the AI's. (hint...housing to overcome the growth penalty). If you can win most of the time with Darlok (the game's weakest race, IMHO) you'll have a great accomplishment. I'm 9 wins and 8 losses in my last 17 games as Darlok on Impos/8/prewarp/cluster galaxy. If I play on huge I could likely do a bit better as hostiles are further away and I can often play longer without encountering likely enemies. I can win most of my games using other weaker stock races.

I play the early/mid game almost exclusively with 2 shot missile ships. MIRVed Mercs are great for taking Orion. Of course EMG is used to destroy it. A fleet with two BB's (battleships) with 18 MIRV Mercs and 6 DD( destroyers) with 2 MIRV EMG Mercs is usually good enough for the Guardian kill. Ion drive is needed or even your fast missiles won't hit quick enough and the Guardian can turn another shield and absorb much damage. The idea is to knock down the shield with the BB's and then kill it with the EMG's. Of course you can add in a few frigates to distract the Guardian (he'll likely shoot them instead of more important ships) or add in a couple more DD's or add in a third BB and have some of the missiles (last rows) be EMG. Make sure to have Zort armor (tech needed to MIRV Mercs anyhow) as the Guardian can quickly kill BB's with only Trit armor. These are ships you'll often need anyhow since without some ships the AI's think you're weak and you'll be attacked. A couple EMG DD's offer great defense for planets while your main fleet is off conquering. I've killed Titans with EMG DD's. Of course, as the game progresses, AI's start building big fleets and can shoot down your missiles.

.. neilkaz ..
 
Sounds like a lot to do. Have fun! :)

These days I will start another game and make notes and screenshots to publish my progress here, I think.

_n0cx

Will keep an eye out for them. Watch a MoM game vid, so I added that to my list. Most of the games can be done in a day or two, except for Diablo and civ.
 
Good win.
Thanks!

The best start for Demolith (Demovore) is to build labs to further enhance research and then build factories and then build your colony bases. It takes too long for non-production races to build CB's early without factories. It is very slightly best for Demovore to build labs first and then factories vs visa versa and yes, I've tested it a few times and also done the math.
In the meantime I started a few other games to try and improve my starting and noticed that, too.

Super production races like UniTol are significantly stronger at Impossible vs AI's but I think you may find that too easy.
UniTol is next on my list after 'mastering' Demolith. While Demolith is for learning how to win on impossible at all, UniTol will teach me how to play production-orientated and will train my micro-skills. I'm looking forward to that. :)

I play the early/mid game almost exclusively with 2 shot missile ships. (...)
By the way, combatting with missile boats: how do you do it? Do you shoot all your missiles and let the ships retreat and use an empty frigatte with reinforced hull and augmented engines to wait for the missiles' impact? Or do you just move the ships as far from the enemy's ships as possible? I am still wondering, which is the easiest and most efficient way to do this :confused:

And, thanks for your input!

_n0cx
 
You may find this interesting http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html

This helped me play this game lots better when I came back to it a couple years ago after buying it from GoG.

While you're learning to chop up the hapless AI's using UniTol here's a couple tips for the start. I'll assume that you're taking the small risk to sell the SB on turn 1 followed by selling the rax on turn 2. It is then slightly better to just build 2 colony bases (assuming a 3 planet system) ASAP and buy then when half done and then research freighters.

UniTol generates 30 pp/t at the start so after 4 turns you've accumulated 120 pp towards the CB and can pay 160 BC for the remaining 80. If you luck out and have more than a 3 planet system, it is best to research freighters and then colonize the 4th and 5th planets in the system. Yes, I've tested all this.

Colonize the most productive planets in your system first. The initial colonist should build housing and when there's a newborn, transfer him over to your HW. Due to no freighters, the colony is starving at a rate of -50,000/turn but by building housing this great production race is growing at considerably more than that rate. If your colony is a very bad planet, you may just want to have the colonist research instead noting that you cannot starve below 1 colonist (1,000,000 pop). Of course, once you have a freighter fleet, there should be no more losses due to starvation. Then new colonies should build labs and factories as those techs are available, and then, depending on circumstances you may want at least one of them back on 1-pop housing. 1-pop housing as UniTol with a factory will quickly generate new colonists to work other planets and you have that lab there generating 5 RP/t as well.

UniTol will have fewer issues with enemy spies than will DemoLith which is vulnerable to spies. A couple spies should be adequate to prevent most thefts and soon the AI's may send their spies elsewhere. Note that you're repulsive so you can "nicely" demand that they stop spying. One way that often gets an AI to withdraw its spies is to send a couple spies to them. They then bring back their spies to defend vs your's and you can then pull your's back for defense.

If you encounter hostiles quickly, you may find that you don't have time to quickly get to supercomps and have to get some war techs instead. Thus you may deviate from the path in my link for Trit armor and Merc missiles. UniTol will get Irridium Fuel cells later and be easily able to reach enemy systems (most non tolerant races will forgo Trit Armor and get Deut cells and Mercs and then Atmos Renewer). If you get attacked quickly, you may have to defend with DD's (Destroyers) and of course you can refit any surving scout with a couple missiles as well.

Hopefully you'll be able to safely crank out a couple of colony ships quickly. There basically are no bad planets for UniTol but of course some are better than others. With just a couple decent systems colonized you should have enough RP's to tech well and once SB's are built decent CP. Once you get Zort armor you can MIRV Mercs.

A battle ship with Zort Armor, 18 fast,arm,eccm,MIRV mercs and battle pods and reinforced hull will be more than almost any AI can handle by turn 200 (pre warp) and can inflict about 1000 damage in a single volley of all those missiles.
 
neilkaz, thank your again for your input! Especially for the provided link! It looks very comprehensive and interesting, I'll have a closer look at it ASAP. :)
 
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