My idea: Allow buildings and units be constructed concurrently

[leafs43]

Every city gets 2 production queues, one for units the other for buildings If you use both queues the hammers are divided and can be tuned with a % slider. Meaning you can do a 70% building/30% unit build order.


The only way to truly take advantage of hexagonal board is to allow more military action, but not to the point it disrupts movement.


Obviously this is not inline with classical civ play, but it does add a little bit more strategy into the game.

 

[matt94]

Awesome idea I've always thought the same but never thought of the sliders part! People could just select 100% if they only want one thing, but there should be a production bonus the closer you are to 50/50 since technically you will be building things slower

 

[Scilly_guy]

Personally I think unit construction takes too long, I think it should be easier to construct units but they should cost more GPT, and that maintenance should be more clearly labelled.

If what you suggest was implemented, it would not change the current system, you would still end up with a building and unit after x number of turns, it is only if you get the 50:50 bonus that it would be any benefit. For example:
market takes 20 turns,
spearman takes 10 turns,
built one after the other you get the market bonus for 10 turns while the spearman is built, built concurrently you have to wait 30 turns until you get the market, (or 27, etc depending on slider).

 

[matt94]

Personally I think unit construction takes too long, I think it should be easier to construct units but they should cost more GPT, and that maintenance should be more clearly labelled.

If what you suggest was implemented, it would not change the current system, you would still end up with a building and unit after x number of turns, it is only if you get the 50:50 bonus that it would be any benefit. For example:
market takes 20 turns,
spearman takes 10 turns,
built one after the other you get the market bonus for 10 turns while the spearman is built, built concurrently you have to wait 30 turns until you get the market, (or 27, etc depending on slider).

Yes that's why I suggested the 50/50 bonus. Its also realistic to have some people in your empire working on buildings and some on weapons.. Not all of them working on a library one day, rifles the next day and the eifle tower the next day

 

[Camikaze]

Pretty good idea. I can't decide whether this would mean a greater focus on military, due to it having its own queue, or a greater focus on economics, due to production having more possibilities. Economies of scale would suggest that by splitting production, you aren't going to be as productive, so perhaps there can be a bit of a bonus for concentrating on one particular build queue, or a penalty for splitting up your production (whichever way you see it, they'd have the same effect).

 

[dguichar]

Slider on science/culture/espionage is gone... why bring it back to production?

A new resource is needed for training military units, different from hammers which go toward a new building.

Just like beakers or culture, provided by specialists and its related buildings. Maybe forts can provide that training resource alike trading posts providing gold.

If you ask me to name the new resource, i don't know...

 

[matt94]

Slider on science/culture/espionage is gone... why bring it back to production?

A new resource is needed for training military units, different from hammers which go toward a new building.

Just like beakers or culture, provided by specialists and its related buildings. Maybe forts can provide that training resource alike trading posts providing gold.

If you ask me to name the new resource, i don't know...

Interesting idea, maybe military units can be made in a different way from buildings.

This made me think of another idea, maybe cities can only produce one thing, buildings(or wealth). One type of building that can be made is unit production buildings. These buildings can include fletchers house,bronze smith, iron smith, stable, gun factory, nuclear missile lab, ect. These buildings will add a new screen to the city menu, a unit shop. The units available in the shop will be based on technologies and what buildings are in the city. Units will cost gold and population, and after they are bought they will spawn in a certain number of turns based on how many hammers the city is producing. Buildings/wealth can still be produced while waiting for the units to spawn. Units can also return to their city giving back the population but not the gold. If a unit with enough promotions returns to the city, all future units of the same type will get a free promotion that the old one used to have.

This ended up way more detailed While I was writing it

 

[dguichar]

My original idea was hammers only for buildings and this new resource for units. If hammers will still serve for spawing, then this new resource becomes less important.

When the sliders went away in civ 5, every resource has its own legitimate place and value.

Of course, producing wealth and culture is a way to convert hammers to gold and musical notes. Indeed hammers might be converted to new resource for units, which will cause making it a new resource will be a nonsense... except, by making it global as happiness.

You have 5 cities, put four of them to build this new resource and the fifth is selected to collect it and train the units.

The discussion will be easier if i might come with a good name for this new resource for training units.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

This is a BAD idea.

If you have 100 hammers, and a 200 hammer unit, and a 200 hammer building.

1. You can have both of them in 4 turns OR

2. You can have one of them in 2 turns AND both of them in 4 turns.

#2 is always better.

Now in civ 5 if you are building a building, and suddeny need a unit you CAN
1. put that unit at the top of your queue and build it... the hammers for the building will still be there
2. buy the unit.

 

[dguichar]

That's why i'm proposing having a different resource for unit training.

And as i'm writting this, i think i'll call it boots. Each city might produce a certain amount based on population, plus some extra from buildings or forts.

 

[Camikaze]

This is a BAD idea.

If you have 100 hammers, and a 200 hammer unit, and a 200 hammer building.

1. You can have both of them in 4 turns OR

2. You can have one of them in 2 turns AND both of them in 4 turns.

#2 is always better.

Now in civ 5 if you are building a building, and suddeny need a unit you CAN
1. put that unit at the top of your queue and build it... the hammers for the building will still be there
2. buy the unit.

Do you think there would be anything wrong with this idea if split production costs were manipulated such that you could either have both items in 4 turns, having been built consecutively, or one of them in 2.5 turns and both of them in 5 turns?

This is actually the opposite of what I suggested earlier in the thread, but perhaps it is better that way...giving some sort of incentive to split up your production.

 

[MajKira]

I also like this idea I had it too
Unit training can be independent from building construction
it can indeed be parallel since you can train soldiers in barracks or making weapons in a factory
and settler you could pull out of population and not a necessity to produce

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Do you think there would be anything wrong with this idea if split production costs were manipulated such that you could either have both items in 4 turns, having been built consecutively, or one of them in 2.5 turns and both of them in 5 turns?

This is actually the opposite of what I suggested earlier in the thread, but perhaps it is better that way...giving some sort of incentive to split up your production.

That might be worthwhile. I'd probably say 'force split 50:50


ie each hammer->1 military production and 1 building production
OR ->1.5 Military production (if the building queue is empty)
OR->1.5 building production (if the unit queue is empty)

I think it would remove some choice though.

 

[Camikaze]

If you had a few options with the split, it could allow for more choice, and a greater range of strategy.

 

[Chibiabos]

This has actually been implemented in another recently released TBS called Elemental.

It is much more direly needed in Civ V, but should NOT reduce the hammers per turn for buildings or units given how badly slow hammers per turn currently are, unless they rebalance units and games to make them at least 50% cheaper to build in terms of hammers.

I also disagree strongly with the notion units need their gold maintenance upped. Its already ridiculously high ... they should only up it if, say, they completely nix counting any civilian units for unit maintenance, or have at least a certain number of 'free' units (maybe one per city or something).

 

[dguichar]

Each city produces a number of BOOTS per turn, independent from HAMMERS, those are added towards training an unit.

So hammers no longer contribute to units, just buildings.

 

[Jorgen1974]

I still play the vanilla game without the expansions like G&K but there are a few changes i would like to see:to choose between Civilization placement to their original starting point (when playing earth HUGE) or random, also like to be able to edit with which benefits you can start a player, if you wish (like the " really advanced setup mod" of steam) secondly I like to see more resources on the map like rice, tobacco, tea, corn/maize, diamonds, platinum, and Titanium... maybe even some new research able techs that come along with it...

 

[ginovili]

Slider on science/culture/espionage is gone... why bring it back to production?

A new resource is needed for training military units, different from hammers which go toward a new building.

Just like beakers or culture, provided by specialists and its related buildings. Maybe forts can provide that training resource alike trading posts providing gold.

If you ask me to name the new resource, i don't know...

Hey I think I know the new resource: shields. They are produced by soldiers. Soldiers are agressive specialists allocated to the slots of barracks and higher level army buildings. Sliders should be used in my opinion to convert the gathered gold to production, science or gold itself. Please read my discussion on the ultimate civilization for more details.

 

[DudewiththeFood]

Manpower symbolised by boots (shields are strength) which is produced by buildings, population and policies. Every military unit requires one and you can no longer produce them but all the gold costs are reduced by half?

Or go with split unit/building production and when you run out of manpower, experience/happiness is generated to resemble training/discipline.

 

[mintcandy]

My original idea was hammers only for buildings and this new resource for units. If hammers will still serve for spawing, then this new resource becomes less important.

Suggestion: the resource to produce units doesn't actually have to be a resource that we've never seen before that is also independent of existing resources.

In later responses, I saw a reference to a BOOTS resource.

Instead, I'd like to suggest that this "new" resource be dependent on excess food, but not synonymous with excess food.

I mean, military expansion based on excesses of food must have some historical basis. Soldiers typically don't grow food when they are training or on actual duty, so it is up to civilians to grow the food needed to feed soldiers in their training.

However, as a military gets more sophisticated, military expansion becomes more dependent on industrial production rather than excess food.

So, I propose a resource for unit production that is heavily dependent on excess food in the Ancient era but gradually becomes more dependent on industrial production (hammers) based on which technological era a Civilization is in.

So, in the Ancient era, producing military units would be very similar to producing Settlers. In the Future era, there might be a 5 percent penalty on excess food when producing a military unit, with the remainder being 95 percent of hammer production.