My newest milk run

Elear

Aux armes citoyens
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
1,185
[c3c] 1.22
Civilization: Maya
Difficulty: Sid!
Opponents: 8 (Ottomans, Byzantines, Russians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Germans, Persians, and Mongols)
World settings: Huge, Wet, Warm, 60% archipelago, 5 billion, No Barbarians, and Standard Ruleset
Domination limit: 4397

This is my newest milk run that I have been generating so many maps for. :)

1000bc status:

29 cities
20 workers (many coming soon, low worker # is result of rapid expansion)
808 score

And screenshot:

1000bc.JPG


I think I'm on my own island, or at least in a good spot ;)

I found this great deal in just 1100 BC. It made me super-rich (note my gold amount in the previous screenshot):

russiatrade.JPG


My next priorities:

--Finish expansion of my 'area'
--Make sure I have any more luxuries/resources secured
--Meet more AI so I can trade to catch up in tech (once I have Writing I should be able to broker around and get back in the tech race.
--Keep banking with the AI

Then maybe we can see in the AD years about :spear:

Comments, suggestions, etc?

-Elear
 
Yeah, I thought it was! I could have got 2 techs instead, but those techs were first rate for me, no point. When I meet others, those will get dirt cheap.

As for this point on, I must be very careful and play slowly. One false move, one misstep, and everything is lost :eek:

By the way, 4397 domination limit. In a game I had going earlier, which was about 4450, I accidentally gave the superpower AI (my neighbor) horses and incense, instead of trading for currency! That wasn't good... but, that game wasn't as good. I only had 24 cities and 700 gold @ 1000 bc, and sub 800 score. I was out of room for expansion by 32 cities.

-Elear

P.S. - All nice diplomacy aside... your team is going down in the demogame ;)
 
what level are you on? Deity?

As to playing very carefully - that's always a good thing... but don't worry about mistakes that much. You may make some, but you can overcome them.
 
That looks like a very impressive start.

Can I ask what the Palace build is for? Are you intending to relocate after the FP is built or is it a prebuild?
 
That Palace prebuild is not there anymore. Briefly I toyed with the idea of building the Great Library, as keeping up in tech at higher levels is never 'easy'... often enough you run into parts where you can't find any good deals to make, and I did not want to blow my start. After a bit of consideration, I considered myself fine, and changed my build to a granary.
 
Here's the next update:

Within time, I met the Babylonians (east), Sumerians (far north-east), Byzantines (north), Ottomans (far north)

Here is the breakdown of power and islands:

1) Sumerians
on island with
4) Russians

3) Byzantines
on island with
5) Ottomans

2) Babylonians
on island with
?) <green border, germans, unmet, northeast>

I am on my own island in the south. Babylon looks like they will get a few colonies on the east part of the island, but I should be able to claim most of the remaining land. I have pretty much secured the north and west from Russian and Byzantine landings. Just a few more turns to ensure this.

So I continued expansion. I built a few more barracks and granaries, trying to establish some sort of temporary military force and also encourage city growth a bit.

I built five main worker groups:

Group one would concentrate on getting mines to where they are needed.
Group two would concentrate on getting irrigation covering the west.
Group three would concentrate on getting irrigation and roads covering the northern plains.
Group four would concentrate on getting irrigation covering the east.
Group five would concentrate on getting roads into the east and northeast, so as to speed up settler movement

These groups are almost done with their appointed tasks. I have begun sending more workers to the east to make sure the roads are done faster.

But alas! The AI with their super fast research were already becoming Republics and Monarchies and nearing the medieval age. The Byzantines on the dawn of the new era!

I had to do something.

I started with setting up the Bank of Maya. There's no way I was going to let these AI risk doing something stupid like upgrading units or buying an alliance! So I started making various deals to AIs as they had lump sums for my GPT. I started with Babylon, 33 GPT for their 584 gold.

Then, I found some odd deals to make. As it turns out, the Ottomans would give me a bit of gold and Ceremonial Burial for Pottery. Amazing, their border touched with Byzantine, who definitely had Pottery (I traded it to them earlier, Pottery for The Wheel and a bit of gold). Seems Byzantine did not want anything the Ottomans had for Pottery! I repeated this for some gold in a similar fashion on the Sumeria/Russia island.

I found I had a source of horses.

Next I finished up in 550 BC my 50 turn Writing gambit. I was a bit worried, but I managed to find that the Russians had no writing. The dawn of trading was upon the Maya...

1) Writing and 330 gold to Russia for Bronze Working, Warrior Code, and Mysticism.
2) Writing to Ottomans for Mathematics and 4 gold.
3) Mathematics and 4 GPT to Russia for Horseback Riding and 321 gold.
4) Horseback Riding to Byzantines for Code of Laws and 14 gold.
5) Horseback Riding and Code of Laws to Ottomans for Polytheism and Iron Working (1 iron in my territory).
6) 1543 gold to Sumeria for Construction
7) As I suspected, Babylon was willing to pay out big for Construction. I traded Construction to Babylon for 477 gold, 83 gold per turn, Map Making, and Philosophy. Wow! :)

I was still 'backwards', down Currency from Byzantine, Monarchy from multiple civs, and Republic from Babylon.

I then conducted my banking with Sumeria: I gave that 83 GPT from Babylon for the majority of my Construction money back: 1494 gold.

I figured, if I were able to get Republic from Babylon, I could manage to get Currency and all my money back. This was not possible, I could not afford to risk spending 2600 gold on Currency without being certain of being able to get Republic. Since Sumeria used up that GPT I gave them instantly, they did not have any money to give me for Currency. If I could sell Currency at third to Sumeria for the GPT, then Currency + gold + gpt to Babylon for Republic, I could then sell around Republic to get all my gold back and maybe more. Oh well, I'll get Republic and Currency soon enough, perhaps within a few turns. I'm keeping my eyes open for more big time deals ;)

I started the whole sequence with 'Alphabet', 'Ceremonial Burial', 'Writing', and 'The Wheel', as well as about 2500 gold. I finished with all ancient techs but 'Monarchy', 'The Republic', and 'Currency', and had near 3200 gold :) Thanks AI!

I have no screenshots yet of all this trading because I haven't uploaded. Hopefully I'll be able to provide screenshots of my curragh routes and trades soon.

But I can show you my empire, circa 530 BC!

Main Maya Empire:

mainmaya.JPG


East Maya Empire:

eastmaya.JPG


The only two downsides to all of this:

My forbidden palace has gone rather slowly because I haven't given it enough attention. My workers have been so busy with other projects that they really haven't gotten around to that city :cry:

Second, I have more plains open for the Byzantine's 'taking' in the north. By 400 BC, the coast should be blocked off by cities. I have 2 settlers already heading to the north, with 3 more soon to come, and another 3 to fill in space that will be chopped from corrupt cities. Hopefully Byzantine does not get a grab on my island. One civilization (Babylon) is already bad enough :(.

But I like this position. It's the best I've ever had on Sid level.

My score and cities comparison (though at this point, I'm just making sure I win in the first place ;)):

Me, 530 BC: 1416 score, 44 cities
Moonsinger 88k, 530 BC: 1448 score, 35 cities
Moonsinger 81k, 530 BC: 1608 score, 48 cities
Kuningas 81k, 530 BC: 1349 score, 32 cities
Pleb 64k, 530 BC: 1336 score, 31 cities

So I'm hanging in there, I suppose.

I hope with harbors coming in soon, I will be able to keep on this track by trading for luxuries from foreign lands (not enough happiness is where I've tended to lose points on so far)

As for what happens after expansion here is done... only think of this: :spear:

-Elear
 
Thanks :)

Byzantines hit the Medieval age... they did not get Feudalism as their tech, because they are not building Sun Tzu's.
 
I doubt it'll matter long run. I'll build my horseman, 50 or 60. I'll upgrade all of them to cavalry. I'll build a dozen settlers. I'll take along two dozen workers or so. I'll build some galleons.

I'll load them up, land and declare war, establish a beachhead on a Babylonian hill, raze the surrounding area, rush a barracks and walls, and then sit back and wait for the stacks.

I doubt the cities on my island will mean much. I'll take them out in one turn and they'll be gone.

The wars of this game will be either:

Me versus the Longbows and Rifleman

or

Me versus Medieval Infantry and Riflemen

Later on, I'll probably see infantry and have to take along artilleries.

If I get lucky early, I may only have to deal with zillions of say, bowman and pikemen, due to inability to upgrade.

-Elear
 
Meanwhile, ole Hammy was painting a bullseye on his own forehead. His island was seperated by a narrow 2 square channel, he had no horses or iron, he had two luxuries, he was one of the tech leaders, and most of all he was trying to settle on my island. :mad:

I couldn't get to him now, but did I use my wonderful settlers to construct a blockade to slow him down in going for whatever he wants. Hopefully I didn't make him too mad! :)

(I saw something I never saw before... the Sid settler pair... turns around after 3 turns of trying to find a way through my blockade... amazing!)

In 470 BC I meet Germany. Hey Germany! Oh what's that? You have The Republic, but no Construction? We have to fix that!

1) 46 GPT and 404 gold to Byzantine for Currency
2) Currency + Construction + 385 gold to Germany for The Republic

It's a little more than I cared to end up paying for getting Currency + The Republic, but it's certainly not bad. When I'm in a Republic, I will be booming. My GPT will go up. My forbidden palace will complete. My marketplaces will be built. My harbors will be built. My happiness will go up. With the harbors, I will be able to trade for pretty much all 8 luxuries, or close to that. I will thus be able to turn down the luxury slider a bit. I will be even richer and be able to get all my gold back via banking ;) Win-win situation for us all !

In addition, I hope to be able to broker some middle age techs. My main goal in the middle age will be to ride the tech leader coattails as I wait for cavalry. Then, I will sell back to AIs who don't know the tech, to procure a good stash of gold for later upgrades. My other goal is to build lots of veteran horsemen.

I feel especially safe. If any AI dare attack me, they lose a lot of GPT :cry: Once I make Republic, I will be very able to cash rush a quick defense if they dare, whilest enjoying war happiness :) Isn't that great?

Still Middle Age tech costs are painful. Even two civs owning monotheism, I can't buy it with my nearly 3000 gold. So I advance some of the other AI to the middle age. ;) I partly do this by gifts, partly by luxury trading. 7/8 scientific civs is great. :goodjob:

My harbor is completed in 430 bc. I end up with furs to start in my luxury trading times. Unfortunately only the Babylonians have built a harbor :(

In 410 BC... I make the jump into Anarchy. :eek:

I draw a seven turn anarchy. This means 270 BC for my Republic.

-Elear
 
I meet Persia in 370 BC. They are the 2nd highest in score, and probably the most dangerous AI I've met, for the simple reason that they have as much tech as even Byzantine and Babylon, more territory (Sumeria has 38 cities, Persia has 45), as well as they are not that close to me. I will have to either go through Babylon and Germany and into Persia, or Byzantine, Ottomans, and into Persia. Either way, I don't fancy fighting Persia with cavalry armies versus infantry.

I gift Russia all the ancient age techs in 370 BC. She gets Engineering. I trade her Republic for Engineering.

I gift Sumeria the tech of Currency, hoping they get Feudalism or Monotheism. No such luck, they land Engineering. Oh well.

I gift Ottomans just Map Making. By doing this, I hope to encourage a harbor. Once they have a harbor, I want to trade the rest of the ancient age techs to Ottomans for their juicy luxuries :D

I continue on in my anarchy.... I am six techs away from cavalry now. Feudalism, Invention, Gunpowder, Chemistry, Metallurgy, then Military Tradiition. Still, it'll take some time to get there, it's expensive getting these techs.

270 BC: I hit Republic. Instant +100 gpt. I do get a luxury from Germany for one of my own. I do it so I can get 10&#37; luxury. I know I should be going higher with it for score, but... I'm trying to win here :lol:. I have enough concerns with saving gold and keeping up in tech, whilest building an army, to worry about losing happiness points.

230 BC: I gift to the Ottomans two techs: Currency and Construction. They pull Feudalism. Perfect!!! I trade them Engineering and The Republic for Feudalism.

I go to Germany and I tell Bismarck. I like your 'Monotheism' tech. I like your shiny gold too. How about my pointy pikes for your stuff? He says "I like pointy things!". So we trade. (Feudalism for his Monotheism and 9 gold).

I have succeeded to get two otherwise 2500 gold price techs... in 1 turn, at no cost to myself. I am now down Chivalry and Invention only.

210 BC: Marketplace is completed in Chichen Itza. I get a bit of a commerce boost, and also get to commence 3 turn horsemen. This will be 2 turn horsemen when it grows some more, and if I get a Golden Age, it would IN THEORY... be 1 turn horsemen at size 12.

I continue my banking business. I keep getting richer and richer and the benefits long term are amazing. It may be hard to understand just how getting lump sums for their GPT is beneficial, but it just works. I have +30 gpt at the moment, and in a few turns, over +80 gpt, whilest, still giving away over 100 gpt!

This point of the game is deceptively easy. The tech buying is not overly difficult, and now that I have 63 cities and solid infrastructure coming, and soon lots of horseman, it is too easy to let my guard down. However, I know I must consider just how I am going to strike. It is inevitable that around 400 to 450 ad I will be making a beachhead. But where? How? With what? Who will I ally? How will I set it up? What cities need to be doing what? These are all questions I must consider.

I have started to answer them:

I will attack Babylon. It appears to me, that it might be a long island. Babylon -> Germany -> Persia. If so, that's great! I can take down some of the stronger civs quickly, leaving me with only Byzantine and Sumeria as 'stronger' civs. Russia, Ottomans, and I suspect Mongols, are quite weak.

How will I attack them? I plan to use about 60 cavalry and a few muskets. I will ship over initially 4 galleons. 8 cavalry, 4 muskets, 2 settlers, 2 workers. The rest of the cavalry will be shipped frantically to the beachhead in the following turns. I will quickly use the cavalry to get rid of the nearest city to the beachhead, then retreat back to it. As the stacks arrive, I will leader farm to get a few armies. Once I have the armies, I have the ball rolling. My homefront will be able to build Heroic Epics, Military Academies, and Pentagons.

Where will I make it? I'm still deciding this. I'm scouting for hills along the Babylon coast. I haven't unveiled much of their coast, so I have hope on this.

Allies? I will use Germany as my ally of course. I will have Babylon fighting on two fronts. Then, Germany is 'weaker' for my taking.

Continuing on...

I call up my kind friend Gilgamesh. I tell him his secrets of Literature are kinda neat! I offer him Monotheism for it. He says sure! and even throws in a bit of gold with it. What a friend! :)

I then sell it @ 3rd to my long time Bank of Maya client, Hammy! ;) He gives me Incense, hoorah! I even told him of Great Libraries that could be built! He was like WOW! So he threw in 23 GPT too.

I don't really want to make any further sales, I've pretty much robbed all the AIs of all their gold, and their unit support costs do the rest. Literature isn't worth selling away for less than 100 gold :rolleyes:
 
Well one misclick of a button and I lost 2900 gold to Chivalry, which I did not even want to buy. I was considering it, but upon seeing what the AI wanted, it was totally out of the question. I went to click back, but instead clicked 'forward'. :cry:

Slug tells me there's no going back to earlier in the turn... I have to press on. So be it. If that's how the HoF is going to play, if that's how it's going to be, then I won't bend, I WILL defeat this game, I'm more determined than ever. Losing is not an option anymore.

-Elear
 
Possibly, Moonsinger's little banking scheme is very powerful...

I may be delayed 5 to 7 turns... oh well ;)
 
Well it's obviously time to fix things up...

I begin my thoughts with what I can do with chivalry. It's not a total loss, I figure I might be able to sell it somehow...

So I start looking around. Things look bleek at first. I've effectively robbed thousands of gold from the AI. There's little to do with chivalry, it seems. The most I can get is Monarchy + 30 gold from Germany. That's no good.

I start, for one, by trading my +44 gpt for 792 of the gold I had traded to Babylon for Chivalry. It's only one fourth of my 'loss', but it's a start. A bank trade.

I can't even start on how tempting it would be to make Babylon declare war on me. If he did.... I'd be up +200 gpt without paying it all back. But... that's foolhardy. I pass, and click 'next turn'.

On the next turn I start managing my horseman builds.

I look around. I hold the only source of horses between the 7 AI I have met. That's good! It's at first tempting to trade the horses to Babylon for my 2000 gold. But I can't do that, they are my first target, and I need those horses for me.

I realize something, very suddenly. I would be able to make back *all* my money and then some if I trade iron to Babylon. In fact, I did the calculation. If I gave my iron, I would get 2000 gold, and at least 40 or 50 GPT! But they are my first target... always the double-edged sword, eh? ;)

150 BC: Nearly 3000 gold. Bank of Maya is rolling in cash at this point. AIs are broke. Any gold they get goes poof from armies. Babylon is rich, but they even struggle a bit.

150 BC: I find that Persia now has a sea route with me. Good! I can trade Dyes and Chivalry to them for Invention.

"We are technologically advanced!"

I think I've consolodated pretty well in just two turns O.O I've gained about 2000 gold in two turns....

My main concern now is getting courthouses and barracks in my cities for optimal horseman production lines.

The interesting part... what I paid for Chivalry was almost like 'buying' part of Invention ;) So I didn't lose really more than 500 or 600 'true' gold, not 3000.

Let's see how I'm doing compared to the AI:

I'm the biggest civilization in the game.
I have the most gold.
Only Babylon is up any tech on me besides Monarchy: it's Gunpowder.
I have a few luxuries importing and exporting. I'd like to be doing better on this, but for some reason the Ottomans (they have two spare luxuries and I could easily give him techs for them) have a harbor, and I can trace a coastal route to my territory, but no trade option? :mischief:

What's the matter with this?

And I have another question. If, once I get Gunpowder, I find Babylon has saltpeter, would it really be that bad to give him access to iron, even though I plan to attack by 400 AD? Iron could give him medieval infantry yes... but the gold I'd get from it in the meantime would be enormous.

-Elear

P.S. - I know I've been low on screenshots. Sorry for that! Lots of text can be a bit dry sometimes. But here's a bit of my banking with Babylon. Check out how much GPT I'm giving to them. In addition, that isn't even all of it. Half my trades are not even displayed. And due to my GPT, they never seem to run out of gold! Banking is becoming a *tad* harder though, building horsemen does tend to cost support over time...

bankingbabylon2.JPG
 
Following BC years:

Nothing much of consequence happens. I trade about over 100 more GPT for a lot of gold to Babylon.

Sumeria gets the Great Library, great, now maybe techs will be a bit cheaper.

And there is one more city spot in the south tundra on my island ;)

I do complete the forbidden palace. It may not usually mean as much as it used to, but I liked the small GPT bonus, as well as the big thing for me, decreased corruption.

the OCN of 18 hurts on Sid level.

There is one other thing. The mass irrigation I have been doing in the non-core parts has really helped. It balances out lots of the horsemen unit costs, at least for now.

10 bc: An embassy is built in Moscow. It reveals they are building wealth, as well as have a garrison of 18 spears, 15 swords, and 10 archers. No wonder they are dirt poor!

The main problem right at the moment is that it's hard to 'sell back' techs to other AIs. Usually, they have little to give me. I would love to 'sell something back' to Babylon, but they are like the tech king :lol:

I've been considering a strategy for the war on Babylon. Might it be possible to sell them iron a turn before the war to provide upgrade funds and 'provoke' Babylon into declaring on me so they don't actually get the iron? Thanks.

-Elear
 
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