[NFP] My review of the new Secret Societies game mode.

[Deadly Dog]

Warring with AI with vampires are bit annoying. They keep on pushing with immortal whack-a-moley vampires and I have a stronger desire to eliminate civs under that wretched society.

If you take Owls or Voidsingers you should have a good source of AI allies who share your desire.

 

[reddishrecue]

Cultists let you do it to your allies, and others you want to avoid war with. Just have some military nearby to liberate it once it goes free-state.

On a somewhat related note, my GDR just liberated Yeveran (it rebelled due to pressure, not my cultists), and now it has disappeared from the CS list and cannot be interacted with. This was a bug a few patches ago, and I am sad to see it back.

Yeah, it'll give you the option to liberate it to whoever you want to or keep it.

 

[shmily_dana]

It seems like there should be the possibility of some consequences for not picking a SS. For example, even if nobody picks the vampires, the society still exists. So random vampire units should attack all the civilizations. Vampire castles should spawn, occupied by vampires or just barbarian units. Something similar for the cultists and the other two SS.

 

[Finvola]

I have tried them all now. The only one I didn't care for that much were the alchemists. In the Alex game where I chose vampires, at least 3 of my neighbors were vampires too. I wondered if there was any logic or it's random because I can't imagine why Monty would pick alchemists and Saladin would pick vampires. I thought Saladin would be more likely to pick voidslingers or alchemists and Monty more likely to pick vampires or owls. I had originally thought maybe they chose their societies based on what their focus is but it seems pretty random with the AI.

I still have not locked the achievement for voidslingers as I won by culture before the last one unlocked so I'll try that again.

 

[Zaarin]

As near as I can tell, the AI picks whichever society they encounter first; there seems to be no particular method or strategy to their selection.

 

[Deadly Dog]

As near as I can tell, the AI picks whichever society they encounter first; there seems to be no particular method or strategy to their selection.

I've made this assumption based on seeing lots of Voidingers and Owls but fewer Sanguine Pact and Hermetic Order fewer still. Goody huts and first contact envoys are accessible to an AI with lots of units, and I'm seeing this in immortal/deity games.

 

[CoconutTank]

So, here's another benefit that the Voidsingers and the Sanguine Pact have over the Owls of Minerva and the Hermetic Order. The Ritual benefits (in Medieval) for the former two can be applied immediately, whereas for the latter two they unlock unique buildings that still require Banking (for the Owls) or Education (for the Order). At least for me, I usually reach the Medieval Era through Machinery, so getting the Alchemical Society is still a ways off. Banking being in Renaissance and requiring 3 other techs from Medieval acts as a significant delay on Gilded Vaults for the Owls. The Owls' Ritual title effectively unlocks moreso in Renaissance than in Medieval.

 

[Pietato]

Yeah, it'll give you the option to liberate it to whoever you want to or keep it.

Um, yeah...that was the point...

 

[Finvola]

I'm doing Voidslingers with FrEleanor on King this time. Korea stomped half the continent but she and I never had any issues. We're allies too. It's the first time she's ever liked me for the whole game. She was way ahead of me in tech and military but I stayed on her good side. Eventually she went into a dark age when I was in a golden and about half the continent she took started flipping like pancakes over to me. I'm hoping she flips herself out of existence. Anyway, this time I managed to play long enough to reach the last voidslinger promotion and unlock the achievement. I haven't completed the project yet to make them more powerful but I will do that when I play next. Maybe I can kill her off with kindness. I got her capital that way, she still has about 7 or 8 cities she settled or captured and she's trying to finish off Scythia, which is now on my borders. She won't be able to hold onto those either because she's in her second dark age and I'm in a golden age again. I did use the cultists to flip two CS that were in between us too. Once I get the upgraded cultists I should be able to take her out of the game.

 

[KayAU]

I'm currently going through my third Secret Societies game, this time as Owls Japan. I am not nearly as dominant as I was in the previous two games, but that is probably due to some weak playing on my part, it's been a while since I played as Japan. The bonuses from the secret society are really nice, though. An extra Economic slot early on is obviously really good, and the unique Bank brings back two trade routes per city, which is much appreciated. I don't personally care too much about the Spy bonuses, but the extra Wildcard slot is great. A slight drawback is that I didn't get the Economic slot right away, it only becomes available after Code of Laws is researched.

One thing I really appreciate about the Secret Societies mode is that it actually has an impact on Diplomacy, by creating some natural teams. This reminds me of Ideologies in Civ 5 and Alignment in Fall from Heaven, and I find it spices up the game.

There has been some talk of boosting the Hermetic Order, which might be a good idea. They don't really get much in the early game, and Ley Lines suffer a bit from Cliffs of Dover-syndrome, in that they are dead tiles, too weak to work and not possible to improve. There are a number of possibilities for buffing these, just to mention some:

• Give Ley Lines a yield boost
• Give Ley Lines a yield boost tied to natural wonders, for example +1 faith for each natural wonder tile in your empire
• Make it possible to build districts on Ley Lines. Give a major adjacency to any district directly on a Ley Line. Give the tile yield to the owning city passively.

Another idea, which will not help with the Ley Lines, but might work as a boost for HO in the early game:

• In addition to revealing Ley Lines, Initiation gives you increased yields from natural wonders

Just a side note, it looks like "Voidsingers" is trying to compete with "Deity" to become the most frequently misspelled word on these forums.

 

[Kwami]

A slight drawback is that I didn't get the Economic slot right away, it only becomes available after Code of Laws is researched.

Well, sure. Even if you got the extra slot right away, you wouldn't have any cards to use until you finished Code of Laws!

One thing I really appreciate about the Secret Societies mode is that it actually has an impact on Diplomacy, by creating some natural teams. This reminds me of Ideologies in Civ 5 and Alignment in Fall from Heaven, and I find it spices up the game.

I haven't noticed these modifiers having much of an affect. Even on deity, I can still pretty much always befriend every AI early enough to never have to worry about war if I don't want to. There's the occasional instant denounce, of course, it doesn't seem to happen any more often than before Secret Societies.

 

[Bosque]

Hermetic Order is incredibly far behind the others, though.

Maybe Hermetic Order isn't the strongest. But these are pretty sweet yields for a single tile in the Atomic Era.
Only 1 food though.

 

[Kwami]

Maybe Hermetic Order isn't the strongest. But these are pretty sweet yields for a single tile in the Atomic Era.
Only 1 food though. View attachment 565592

I think the problem is that the game is just about over when those yields appear. I mean, you've already got something like 60 great people.

 

[Datian]

They appear in the industrial era, which is still very late, even more if you compare them to what you have earned during all this time with other societies.
Those super yields are satisfying, but less powerful.

 

[CDC-Cobra]

If say you have the option to have the hermetic order can you not choose it and hold off for another order or are you stuck with the first option given you. I went 100 turns with 8 babr huts cleared and no sanguine
pact option.

 

[Zaarin]

If say you have the option to have the hermetic order can you not choose it and hold off for another order or are you stuck with the first option given you. I went 100 turns with 8 babr huts cleared and no sanguine
pact option.

You don't have to pick the first society you find, though once you choose a society you're stuck with it.

 

[KayAU]

If say you have the option to have the hermetic order can you not choose it and hold off for another order or are you stuck with the first option given you. I went 100 turns with 8 babr huts cleared and no sanguine
pact option.

You can wait for another option to appear. In my current game the Sanguine Pact appeared very, very late, in other games they have appeared early. My understanding is that there's a random element to it, and that the chance of the event triggering gets lower the more civs have that society.

 

[cain3456]

I'm trying out Hungary with the Vamps. The RNG gawds were not kind, as I defeated two barb camps without the invite while I already had the others. The continent got too civilized and my only hope was ally with the Arabs, who went Vamp and were going on the rampage, having wiped the Turks and leaving Russia with poor cities. Eventually I got the invite and joined. Germany got stupid and sent an unescorted settler my way, so I declared war. Boy howdy, those vamps can hit hard. I noticed that Germany was spamming Cultists but didn't seem to know how to use them.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Playing SS with Gran Colombia and Vampires. It's nice having +2 movement on vamps with Colombia's CUA and a linked GC. Doing a dom game, it's actually not OP by any stretch, but pretty fun. But um, the AI spams Cultists like it's the end of the world. I'm trying to make my way through territory and my ally Hungary has a sea of Cultists that are screwing up my movement. This really sucks for dom games.