My vision for Civilization 5

[snapple232]

I think Civilization should stay with square tiles, right angles are superior and easier to understand than wavy hexagon lines. Units should be able to stack on the same tile, and be able to be promoted when they gain experience in combat. Stacks of doom should be prevented by having siege units like catapults do collateral damage to multiple units in an enemy stack. They should have religion, where you can create missionaries and spread the religion to other cities, and AIs should hate you if you have an infidel religion like in real life. It'd be cool if they had espionage too where you can make spies and poison the enemy's water supply and stuff, and you should be able to invest gold and get espionage points to spend against the enemy. You should be able to found cities with settlers and create improvements on land with workers. Some possible improvements could be mines, farms, windmills, etc. You should also be able to make towns that give you commerce, that you decide whether it goes into science gold culture or espionage. In diplomacy you should be able to have open border agreements and trade resources to each other and techs. You should definitely be able to trade techs. I also think it'd be awesome if they had Great People that did different things, and you could use them to start Golden Ages because that's realistic. Anyway thats my vision of Civilization 5 and if they implement my ideas it will be a great game

 

[Dale]

I'd say something, but I fear I'd annoy Cyc and Thormodr again.

 

[sputnik323]

I think Civilization should stay with square tiles, right angles are superior and easier to understand than wavy hexagon lines. Units should be able to stack on the same tile, and be able to be promoted when they gain experience in combat. Stacks of doom ...

I really cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not. If you are not, then there is this really great game that is a lot of fun that totally fits your vision of civ. Its called Civ IV and has some great expansion packs and great mods (eg. FFH2 Orbis). You should play Civ IV and not bother with civ V because that is what you want. If you are being sarcastic, you did a poor job of portraying it.

 

[facesnorth]

I really cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not. If you are not, then there is this really great game that is a lot of fun that totally fits your vision of civ. Its called Civ IV and has some great expansion packs and great mods (eg. FFH2 Orbis). You should play Civ IV and not bother with civ V because that is what you want. If you are being sarcastic, you did a poor job of portraying it.

Duh.... could it be any more obvious? He did a great job.

 

[Herrhals]

definitely got the sarcasm, clear as day. He's describing cIV

 

[sputnik323]

Duh.... could it be any more obvious? He did a great job.

If this was the only post I read on these forums, I would totally agree with you. However, there are tons of flamers and complainers about new stuff to make any rant seem credible.

 

[Savoir10]

If this was the only post I read on these forums, I would totally agree with you. However, there are tons of flamers and complainers about new stuff to make any rant seem credible.

When I first started reading the original post, I was thinking is this guy Fair Dinkum. The more I read the more i realised he was taking the piss. I agree, been far too many of these type of threads.

 

[Ahriman]

I really cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

The true mark of an artful troll

Nicely done.

 

[Chalks]

The true mark of an artful troll

Apparently they class this as a flame worthy of an infraction round these parts!

 

[Senethro]

Yes. You're allowed to troll but you're not allowed to call someone a troll.

 

[Ahriman]

Huh. Who knew? It was meant to be admiring... I thought it was funny!

 

[Danielos]

Some people here just seems to have too much free time. And this is just March. Imagine hanging around here in the summer...

Anyway, the only Civ-game that hasn´t really made any dramatic changes and improvements on its predecessor was Civ 2. Both 3 and 4 introduced awesome new ideas and features, and hopefully 5 will continue that trend.

Do the developers read these forums?? There have been some incredible and creative suggestions in the Ideas/suggestions-section for years now, and it would be silly if they didn´t used the incredible feedback and creative potential in the community to improve the franchise.

 

[hrman]

I think Civilization should stay with square tiles, right angles are superior and easier to understand than wavy hexagon lines. Units should be able to stack on the same tile, and be able to be promoted when they gain experience in combat. Stacks of doom should be prevented by having siege units like catapults do collateral damage to multiple units in an enemy stack. They should have religion, where you can create missionaries and spread the religion to other cities, and AIs should hate you if you have an infidel religion like in real life. It'd be cool if they had espionage too where you can make spies and poison the enemy's water supply and stuff, and you should be able to invest gold and get espionage points to spend against the enemy. You should be able to found cities with settlers and create improvements on land with workers. Some possible improvements could be mines, farms, windmills, etc. You should also be able to make towns that give you commerce, that you decide whether it goes into science gold culture or espionage. In diplomacy you should be able to have open border agreements and trade resources to each other and techs. You should definitely be able to trade techs. I also think it'd be awesome if they had Great People that did different things, and you could use them to start Golden Ages because that's realistic. Anyway thats my vision of Civilization 5 and if they implement my ideas it will be a great game

Point taken and sarcasm noted.

However, I think there is a fundamental difference of opinion on these boards on what people are looking for out of CIV 5. Some (and I fall solidly in this camp) are looking for a updated version of CIV 4 (much like the move from CIV 3 to CIV 4), while others are looking for (or willing to accept) a largely new game that plays totally different than CIV 4. While nobody knows what the final version will look like, so far, I think the first group is pretty unhappy with what has come out, while the second group is hearing what they like.

Personally, I think CIV 4 was one of the best games ever made, and built on its predecessors to get there. Even so, there are certain areas of the game that still lagged behind the others and either needed tweaking or major revisions. I would list religion, diplomacy, naval/land unit interactions and espionage as examples of these categories. My ideal CIV 5 would be a refinement of CIV 4 that addresses these areas and builds on them. Updated graphics and all the other bells and whistles would be nice too, but not nearly as important as these refinements. However, CIV 5 could look largely the same and play largely the same, and I would be perfectly happy if these systems were fixed and updated.

My current impression, however, is that CIV 5 has elected to simply remove some of these areas (a major step back) and sharply change gameplay in areas that I don't think were broken (one unit per tile and ranged combat, as an example). To me, these changes are either steps back, or a "step to the side" in the direction of an entirely new game, rather than a step forward. My concern is that CIV 5 will be a totally different game, instead of an improvement building on the previous ones, and will lose what has made the series special to me even if it does turn out to be a great game in its own right.

By the way, I want to avoid being totally negative and say that I am excited about some of the improvements we are hearing about. As a couple examples - Hex tiles are a nice touch that open up a lot of possibilities for game play, and it sounds like the diplomacy end of things is getting many of the revisions I've hoped for. I'm sure there will be a hundred other small improvements that I'm not even thinking of that I will like in the final version of the game. At this point, however, I'm very on the fence as to whether these items will make up for what seems to have been lost in getting there.

 

[Ahriman]

I can completely understand and respect that some people would prefer a tweaked Civ4 to something that is new and different.

Having said that, I'm very glad they're not going that way. A Tweaked Civ4 is already available through mods; try Rise of Mankind, for example.

I think the Civ4 combat system was fairly broken. Stacks of Doom are very dull.

I'm very glad that Civ4 will be a different game, we've been playing mostly the same game for nearly 2 decades now. Time to shake it up a little.

To me, what makes the series special is not particular mechanics, but to have an over-arching strategy game with a great historic feel and strategic but elegantly simplified gameplay.

Nothing I've seen makes me think that this is being lost from the series.

[Though I'm a bit worried about how much bombardment we're going to see.]

 

[Willem]

My current impression, however, is that CIV 5 has elected to simply remove some of these areas (a major step back)...

I suspect though that we'll see some of them put back in through the expansions. My guess is that they wanted to rework the mechanics but weren't quite sure how to go about it. So instead they just left them out until they had more time to think about how they wanted to make them work. I'm hoping that's the case with religion at least, I'm a bit disappointed that they removed that apsect. I considered that one of the most successful additions in Civ 4. I don't really care about Espionage myself, I never use it, other than to gain some passive abilities.

 

[sputnik323]

However, CIV 5 could look largely the same and play largely the same, and I would be perfectly happy if these systems were fixed and updated.

My current impression, however, is that CIV 5 has elected to simply remove some of these areas (a major step back)

See what I mean, this post is a perfect example... I would like to assume people are being sarcastic (like the first post); however, too many people want updated civ IV.

No offense to that post, you are entitled to your wishes for civ V. How would you fix and update those systems? There are already many mods and expansions out there that update civ IV mechanics.

Do not be afraid! There are already tons of people thinking how to mod all the mechanics they miss from civ IV back in, which is the beauty of CIV to find mods to play the game as you like (and SoD is probably the first thing that will be reintroduced).

 

[Woodreaux]

Yes. You're allowed to troll but you're not allowed to call someone a troll.

The rule sticky doesn't prohibit complimenting people. You do realize a lot of people enjoy trolling and also critique other people's trolls, and to those folks the moniker "troll" is a badge of honor.

 

[Woodreaux]

See what I mean, this post is a perfect example... I would like to assume people are being sarcastic (like the first post); however, too many people want updated civ IV.

No offense to that post, you are entitled to your wishes for civ V. How would you fix and update those systems? There are already many mods and expansions out there that update civ IV mechanics.

Do not be afraid! There are already tons of people thinking how to mod all the mechanics they miss from civ IV back in, which is the beauty of CIV to find mods to play the game as you like (and SoD is probably the first thing that will be reintroduced).

I don't know how Civ V will be implemented, what resources are in what form, etc... but modding fundamental features isn't always a trivial operation. I've seen plenty of really awesome features in mods, eg: ranged bombardment brought into a mod. You add new models, add and modify XML files and Python scripts and works great... except the AI doesn't know how to use it. That final element requires digging into compiled libraries which is significantly more complicated. Case point, can anyone point me in the direction of a War World II that has ranged bombardment in which the AI uses it correctly? I not aware of any, but I know that some very smart people have attempted it. If there is one, please tell me. I'd love to play it.

I foresee the same thing happening with Civ V, I don't imagine modders will have much trouble getting rid of 1UPT, but I suspect the AI's will all have 1UPT concepts at the core of their tactical and strategic deployment logic. Hopefully, my prediction will be in error and modders will succeed.

 

[Willem]

Case point, can anyone point me in the direction of a War World II that has ranged bombardment in which the AI uses it correctly?

While I've never used it myself, I'm pretty sure the AI knows how to use it in Dale's Combat Mod. Getting the AI to use some new feature isn't necessarily an impossible task, if the author knows what they're doing.

 

[hrman]

See what I mean, this post is a perfect example... I would like to assume people are being sarcastic (like the first post); however, too many people want updated civ IV.

No offense to that post, you are entitled to your wishes for civ V. How would you fix and update those systems? There are already many mods and expansions out there that update civ IV mechanics.

Do not be afraid! There are already tons of people thinking how to mod all the mechanics they miss from civ IV back in, which is the beauty of CIV to find mods to play the game as you like (and SoD is probably the first thing that will be reintroduced).

No offense taken...I'm happy to be your poster child for "CIV conservatism"

Yes, you are right that there are mods out there for just about everything. I'm not heavily into the modding community, but even I am aware of that. The problem I've always had with most mods is that they are meant to address one specific game systems or one specific scenario, rather than a comprehensive package of changes designed to make the game better that can then be further built on by the modding community.

Going specifically to your point...I'm sure there will be a Mod out for CIV 5 adding multiple units per hex in, and it might even be great. But will there then be a "mod of a mod" adding religion back into this mix? Then will their be a mod of this hybrid adding in improved naval combat? (I'm sure you see where I am going with this). Yes, great things can be accomplished with mods, but the more that is done right in the original game, these easier it is for mods to build upon.

I guess, in my ideal world, the next iteration of CIV would have been a cross between another expansion pack and a new version which would have addressed many of the game system issues that frustrate so many people (I'll go back to my examples of diplomacy, espionage, religion, and naval units). I would have loved to see what the official Firaxis design team could come up with, without pulling some of these things out of the game entirely.