n0x-01 -- I Wonder...
- Thread starter n0xie
- Start date
n0xie
OCC-addict
Of course 
And we're full. Let's get started on Leader discussion so we can get this show on the road
And we're full. Let's get started on Leader discussion so we can get this show on the road
Industrious and ??. Spiritual or Financial. Both sound good to me.
For getting those resources connected up early as well as the workers being able to get onto forest and chop quicker makes Gandhi's fast worker quite good. But then the financial trait would help us to get the techs quicker, particularly if we are coastal.
For me though, that ability to change civics with no anarchy is the clincher. We can swap around later every 5 turns to whip and then build.
So Gandhi it is for me.
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For getting those resources connected up early as well as the workers being able to get onto forest and chop quicker makes Gandhi's fast worker quite good. But then the financial trait would help us to get the techs quicker, particularly if we are coastal.
For me though, that ability to change civics with no anarchy is the clincher. We can swap around later every 5 turns to whip and then build.
So Gandhi it is for me.
.
Sina
Warlord
If we are going OCC, Bismarck deserves consideration. Health is the limiting factor and the +3 would help.
I just tried a OCC with Qin. It went well until Hattie declared on me and somehow teched at a pace of one tech a turn. The first wonder I lost was Taj Mahal. The city was not that good, but had Stone in the fat cross.
I noticed that it is very easy to "forget" to build units and buildings with racing for all those wonders.
We definitely need Stone or Marble in the city radius for either a faster Parthenon or Pyramids. They take up the most time. I started with the Parthenon with an intermission for Stonehenge when Stone was hooked up, then went Oracle, Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Lighthouse, Forge, Colossus (had Copper), Aqueduct, Hanging Gardens, Chitchen Itza, Sistine Chapel. Then Hattie declared and things deteriorated.
I'll try another OCC with Ghandi later.
I just tried a OCC with Qin. It went well until Hattie declared on me and somehow teched at a pace of one tech a turn. The first wonder I lost was Taj Mahal. The city was not that good, but had Stone in the fat cross.
I noticed that it is very easy to "forget" to build units and buildings with racing for all those wonders.
We definitely need Stone or Marble in the city radius for either a faster Parthenon or Pyramids. They take up the most time. I started with the Parthenon with an intermission for Stonehenge when Stone was hooked up, then went Oracle, Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Lighthouse, Forge, Colossus (had Copper), Aqueduct, Hanging Gardens, Chitchen Itza, Sistine Chapel. Then Hattie declared and things deteriorated.
I'll try another OCC with Ghandi later.
the_scorpion645
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 25
I got to say that i don't patched to v.1.61 and i won't because i have a cra....oops! 
"updated" version of the game
"updated" version of the gameomni_paul
Mr. Shambles
Well I'm 1.61 through and through, so we'll need to make a decision there.
Leader: I've done some trials. I achieved the goal by accident in a previous game with Qin, failed dismally in a trial with Gandhi, and have had excellent success with Louis in my most recent game, though I did have to resort to the reload-and-whip on Pyramids, something we won't be doing in the SG.
If this is to be a genuine OCC, I don't think it's possible. In the time of Pyramids/Lighthouse you need to be producing at least 2 wonders at the same time to beat the AI. IMO
Leader: I've done some trials. I achieved the goal by accident in a previous game with Qin, failed dismally in a trial with Gandhi, and have had excellent success with Louis in my most recent game, though I did have to resort to the reload-and-whip on Pyramids, something we won't be doing in the SG.
If this is to be a genuine OCC, I don't think it's possible. In the time of Pyramids/Lighthouse you need to be producing at least 2 wonders at the same time to beat the AI. IMO
I ran a test game with Bismark. I got every wonder, but stopped at about Nationalism since it was clear that it was gonna be a clean sweep. I don't think it is possible with an OCC though, there are just too many ancient wonders you have to be building at the same time. As a matter of fact I think you need 2 coastal cities, cause you need to be building the colossus and great lighthous at the same time (more or less). The other thing that I did in my game was I settled my 2nd and 3rd cities like 9 and 10 tiles away from my capital to claim a stone and a marble.
Qin is good (but we will always have a tech lead anyway), so I think Gandhi (no anarchy is huge, so you are always building), Bismarck, Napoleon, and FDR (going far away to grab that stone and marble won't hurt as bad) would all be better. Louis doesn't do much for us since we will have Stonehenge anyway and cheap theaters
. Anyway, any leader will be all right with me though.
Qin is good (but we will always have a tech lead anyway), so I think Gandhi (no anarchy is huge, so you are always building), Bismarck, Napoleon, and FDR (going far away to grab that stone and marble won't hurt as bad) would all be better. Louis doesn't do much for us since we will have Stonehenge anyway and cheap theaters
. Anyway, any leader will be all right with me though.omni_paul
Mr. Shambles
I agree, Louis doesn't do much for us, I actually ran that experiment to see how we would get on with the handicap of a useless trait: therefore, does it matter who we choose, so long as they're industrious?
I should add that I got them all with Louis, despite not having stone OR marble!
I'm now leaning towards Gandhi post 1.61 as anarchy has been ramped up. My Gandhi experiment was pre-patch.
EDIT: Plus, the spiritual trait we can exploit for Great Engineers.
I should add that I got them all with Louis, despite not having stone OR marble!
I'm now leaning towards Gandhi post 1.61 as anarchy has been ramped up. My Gandhi experiment was pre-patch.
EDIT: Plus, the spiritual trait we can exploit for Great Engineers.
omni_paul
Mr. Shambles
We have a full roster... want to roll a start n0xie?
n0xie
OCC-addict
Sounds like a plan 
I decided for ghandi in the end. The bald guy just makes me feel all fuzzy inside...
Now I generated a couple of maps. Let's talk business and get this party started
I got pretty lucky with the generator so I only generated 4.
Tell me which one you prefer and I'll start the game. I'll play 30, the rest 20, then 10 each.
I decided for ghandi in the end. The bald guy just makes me feel all fuzzy inside...
Now I generated a couple of maps. Let's talk business and get this party started
I got pretty lucky with the generator so I only generated 4.
Tell me which one you prefer and I'll start the game. I'll play 30, the rest 20, then 10 each.
omni_paul
Mr. Shambles
Wow.. .each has its own benefits...
I think we can discount #4. The coast is nice, but the rest of the terrain is problematic, and there's not specific wonder resource (although the rice would be nice, its not enough on its own).
#1 is the only other coastal, but again it lacks a certain something. I also think it would struggle to feed itself without a lot of farming.
#2 and #3 both have wonder resources, but I just can't go past #3. Early stone isn't quite as good as marble, but boy does it have a great mix of food and production. The FP tile will feed us and give us early commerce if we cottage it, there are some forests for the quick chop, and enough food for it to work the hills even if we cottage some of the 2F1C tiles.
For me it's #3 hands down.
EDIT: HA! I said that and hadn't even seen the corn in #3. Even more decisive now. 3! 3! 3!
I think we can discount #4. The coast is nice, but the rest of the terrain is problematic, and there's not specific wonder resource (although the rice would be nice, its not enough on its own).
#1 is the only other coastal, but again it lacks a certain something. I also think it would struggle to feed itself without a lot of farming.
#2 and #3 both have wonder resources, but I just can't go past #3. Early stone isn't quite as good as marble, but boy does it have a great mix of food and production. The FP tile will feed us and give us early commerce if we cottage it, there are some forests for the quick chop, and enough food for it to work the hills even if we cottage some of the 2F1C tiles.
For me it's #3 hands down.
EDIT: HA! I said that and hadn't even seen the corn in #3. Even more decisive now. 3! 3! 3!
Sina
Warlord
I assume this is not OCC then.
#3 for all the reasons omni_paul listed and it has corn as well!
Then only problem with it is that we don't know how far away from the coast it is. City #2 must be coastal with good production for the Great Lighthouse. The Colossus is not that pressing I think.
We should also discuss early techs and builds when we have decided on a start.
Looking forward to getting this one up and running now.
#3 for all the reasons omni_paul listed and it has corn as well!
Then only problem with it is that we don't know how far away from the coast it is. City #2 must be coastal with good production for the Great Lighthouse. The Colossus is not that pressing I think.
We should also discuss early techs and builds when we have decided on a start.
Looking forward to getting this one up and running now.
n0xie
OCC-addict
I just thought it would be too difficult with the coastal wonders: we needed to settle on the coast in order to get them and that means 'wasting' tiles on coast tiles...Sina said:
If we manage to pull this off I'll start an OCC on Monarch to make it even more challenging
I think tech tree is a bit dependant on our starting location. Spot 3 has great potential with a cottage on the FP, Mine on the GoldHill, Irritation on the Corn and a Quary on the Stone. Incidently they all need different techsSina said:We should also discuss early techs and builds when we have decided on a start.
Looking forward to getting this one up and running now.
I do tend to always go for BW first because, well, it's just too good a tech, although in this case Agriculture could be the first pick to make maximum use of the corn (which will go towards production of 2nd worker/1st settler).I think our strategy should be to abuse our fast workers as best as possible. Start with worker, chop second worker, chop settler, start some militairy unit, start stonehenge, use 2nd settler to start a settler 'factory' and use the capital for commerce/wonderproduction. Something like that anyway
Stonehenge + Pyramids shouldn't be a problem with Industrious and stone available. As for the coast wonders... I think at least our 3rd or 4th city should be at a coast tile in order to have any chance of buildig the Lighthouse and the Colossus. It's going to be an interesting start no doubt
This is all assuming we take #3. I'll wait for input from Atlas and Kikinit before starting the game. the_scorpion645 can you pm me if you're in or out? (if the patch is the problem, just buy the game: everyone else who plays here does...)
omni_paul
Mr. Shambles
I agree with all of that, but I think that the second city should be coastal, just to be sure we get a leg up on the GL. If an Industrious AI starts on the coast, this will be over almost before it begins.
Ok.. city specialisations never been a strongpoint with me and difficulty in seeing a cities future potential is one of the reasons for that. Nonetheless, I will go through it as much for my own learning as for everyone else sakes.
City 4: I too came to the conclusion pretty fast that this wouldn't be suitable. Lost of food, maybe a GP city? But no use to us to make lots of wonders fast.
City 1: Nice sea location, without too many of the cities productive cells actually being sea. Got ok production but not a lot of food. Not a bad city, but not good enough without stone or marble.
City 2: I think it's got too many water cells but they are inland seas and provide the 2F right off the bat. Got stone together with cows and vines? Not really to good at recognising things without the icons. Not too bad in all.
City 3: Good food with corn and farming potential. Got stone for wonder building and seems to have a reasonable number of hills to give us some production. Seems to be the best choice for this variant. So I will concur with the rest of the group and say "it's three for me, n0xi3."
I agree with the call for the 2nd city to be sea side. We need to follow that river and hope that the sea is nice and close. With marble to boot.
EDIT: City 3 will also get the commerce boost from the gems, gold or silver or whatever it is on the hill in the SE.
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City 4: I too came to the conclusion pretty fast that this wouldn't be suitable. Lost of food, maybe a GP city? But no use to us to make lots of wonders fast.
City 1: Nice sea location, without too many of the cities productive cells actually being sea. Got ok production but not a lot of food. Not a bad city, but not good enough without stone or marble.
City 2: I think it's got too many water cells but they are inland seas and provide the 2F right off the bat. Got stone together with cows and vines? Not really to good at recognising things without the icons. Not too bad in all.
City 3: Good food with corn and farming potential. Got stone for wonder building and seems to have a reasonable number of hills to give us some production. Seems to be the best choice for this variant. So I will concur with the rest of the group and say "it's three for me, n0xi3."
I agree with the call for the 2nd city to be sea side. We need to follow that river and hope that the sea is nice and close. With marble to boot.
EDIT: City 3 will also get the commerce boost from the gems, gold or silver or whatever it is on the hill in the SE.
.
Sina
Warlord
Another question is if we want to try for Hinduism at the start. We will need the tech early anyway, but it would delay the city improvements by a bit. I'm not sure about this, but would go for it on the grounds that I never play Ghandi without founding Hinduism.
I'm not worried about Stonehenge and Pyramids. We are guaranteed to get them with Stone + Ind. What worries me the most is the Parthenon.
I would start the Parthenon as first wonder after the initial worker/settler/unit production and have a little break for Stonehenge once the Stone is connected.
My ideas for techs:
a) Polytheism, Agriculture, Masonry, Wheel, BW, (Hunting, Archery if no Copper soon), Priestood, Fishing, Sailing, Pottery, Mathematics and time the Oracle so that it gives Metal Casting as free tech.
b)Essentially the same as above, just have Polytheism before BW (so that we can start on the Parthenon).
We will tech quite fast because of the gold.
It depends a bit on who is around as well and what they start with etc. Sometimes the Great Lighthouse goes very early and sometimes they just don't go for it.
I'm not worried about Stonehenge and Pyramids. We are guaranteed to get them with Stone + Ind. What worries me the most is the Parthenon.
I would start the Parthenon as first wonder after the initial worker/settler/unit production and have a little break for Stonehenge once the Stone is connected.
My ideas for techs:
a) Polytheism, Agriculture, Masonry, Wheel, BW, (Hunting, Archery if no Copper soon), Priestood, Fishing, Sailing, Pottery, Mathematics and time the Oracle so that it gives Metal Casting as free tech.
b)Essentially the same as above, just have Polytheism before BW (so that we can start on the Parthenon).
We will tech quite fast because of the gold.
It depends a bit on who is around as well and what they start with etc. Sometimes the Great Lighthouse goes very early and sometimes they just don't go for it.
n0xie
OCC-addict
Heh this is why I like SG's so much: you get an inside view on how different people tackle different issues.
My tech path would be Agriculture, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet, trade for Masonry, Fishing, Sailing and Priesthood.
The idea would be that since the first 3 builds are costing us our growth, the bonus happy guy from a religion isn't that much of an issue. By the time we do need him, I hope that we either get one from a neighbour, or get to found Conf. Also we'll need those worker techs to get a head start and pottery is always good (we do want a cottage on that FP) It's a bit of a gamble by neglecting both sailing and polytheism (or rather Lighthouse and Partheon). This is what I normally would do but since we're hunting for wonders, this might be too much of a gamble.
My tech path would be Agriculture, BW, Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet, trade for Masonry, Fishing, Sailing and Priesthood.
The idea would be that since the first 3 builds are costing us our growth, the bonus happy guy from a religion isn't that much of an issue. By the time we do need him, I hope that we either get one from a neighbour, or get to found Conf. Also we'll need those worker techs to get a head start and pottery is always good (we do want a cottage on that FP) It's a bit of a gamble by neglecting both sailing and polytheism (or rather Lighthouse and Partheon). This is what I normally would do but since we're hunting for wonders, this might be too much of a gamble.
omni_paul
Mr. Shambles
Problem with that tech path noxie is that Polytheism is needed for the Parthenon, and by the time we get to alphabet the AIs who have it might not be willing to trade because they've started the wonder. AFAIK if an AI has begun production on a wonder, they won't trade you the prerequisite tech.
I think Sina is right and we need early Poly. Hinduism will help us too in terms of our happy limit and when we get Ord Rel it speeds up our wonder building.
I think Sina is right and we need early Poly. Hinduism will help us too in terms of our happy limit and when we get Ord Rel it speeds up our wonder building.
n0xie
OCC-addict
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
HAH! Your advice came too late as I was already playing. Muhahaha!Anyway...
I felt an urge to play so I fired up the #3 map and began. (sorry Atlas*
)[/offtopic]
Behold the mighty Indian ruler, King of Kings, Ghandi, the Miracle Worker, Man of Wonder, a.k.a. Wonderboy, a.k.a. 'baldy'.
And thus in 4000BC (yes we count years backwards since we know for certain that christ will be born in 4000 years, and most likely will not found christianity) Delphi is found, and our people rejoice.
Now this leaves us in a bit of a sticky situation. We're playing on Epic speed ( I think I forgot to mention that
) so building stuff takes ages. If I go for Polytheism (17 turns) then our worker is due in 6 turns and can only Mine the Gold. I really want to start with a worker though. If I go for Agriculture (12 turns) at least our worker has something really useful to do BUT we most likely lose the religion race (TM). And then I spot the Oasis to the West
Our problem solved. You see an Oasis gives 3 food but more importantly it gives 2 commerce. Our problem solved! I start with Polytheism followed by Agriculture which should both be ready as soon as the worker finishes I send the warrior in search for a coastline for our 2nd, 3rd or 4th city for the all important coast wonders which doesn't really take long:
Hmmm I see forests, 2 hills, corn, sheep... That doesn't look like a bad site. In fact that looks like a pretty good site after I scout a bit more:
Now I'm not much of a dot mapper but I think the DOT is a pretty decent site for a coastcity for wonders (eventhough it has 3 dead tiles).
Not much else to do than press enter some more.
Our borders expand and we get the all crucial oasis tile. Polytheism drops 2 turns (THAT's how overpowered financial is: 1 extra commerce = 2 turns off a tech in the AA).
Here kitty kitty....
We survive and the hut gives us some gold:
