Nairobi attacks - you'll have seen this, no doubt.

woody60707 said:
People have done crazier things.
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Is that right?

lords-resistance-army.jpg


But I still see no indication of African religious fanatics, either Muslim or Christian, buying plane tickets to wage a holy war in the Australian outback. Perhaps you can provide some details.
 
Chiteng said:
all I can see is:

The perps all belong to the same religion
The perps allowed people of the same religion to leave
The perps then started killing people who were NOT their religion.

Possibly.....people should be concerned about members of that religion.
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Maybe that's all you can see because that's all you're looking for. Did you ignore Formaldehyde's post above?
Kenyan Muslims are joining the police in protecting churches in the northeastern province where Christians have come under increased attack from suspected Somali Al Shabab Islamic militants.

Following July 1 attacks on churches in the town of Garissa – close to the Kenyan-Somali border – local Muslim leaders have decided to provide their own protection to the churches of their Christian neighbors. Last Sunday, July 8, local Muslim youths and their leaders patrolled with the police during church services, and no attacks were reported.

The patrols are a strong statement of rejection for the militant methods and ideology of Al Shabab, the Somali Islamist militant group that is suspected of carrying out the July 1 attacks in Garissa. By targeting Christians, militants in northern Kenya appear to be punishing Kenya for sending troops into Somalia to attack Al Shabab, and to prop up the shaky Somali government.
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You're wrong to generalize like that. We can just as easily show that Christians, Buddhists, Shintos, or any other group contain members who have committed barbaric acts. You're bias shows through when you don't acknowledge that.
 
This is true. But it's very hard to resist such a bias and I'm not sure I succeed.
 
I'd comment, but as a Roman Catholic I'm obviously a member of at least five IRA splinter groups and cannot be trusted.
 
"We have ashamed and defeated our attackers," President Uhuru Kenyatta said in a televised address. "That part of our task has been completed by our multi-agency security team … Kenya has stared down evil and triumphed."

Declaring three days of mourning, Kenyatta said the nation had experienced "immense" losses and praised the solidarity of Kenyans in response to the attack.

Kenyatta said that 61 civilians and six members of the security forces had been killed, with 62 injured. Towards the end of the operation, three floors of the complex collapsed and some bodies – including those of terrorists – remained in the rubble, he said.

"I promise that we shall have full accountability for the mindless destruction, deaths, pain, loss and suffering we have all undergone as a national family. These cowards will meet justice, as will their accomplices, wherever they are."

But while he said "the worst" of the crisis was now over, it was unclear whether Kenyan security forces had finally accounted for all the militants after four days of explosions and gunfire.

Kenyatta also failed to quell intense speculation that a British woman and several Americans may have been among the attackers, saying the information could not be confirmed.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/24/nairobi-mall-siege-over-declares-kenya-president

Yet it is Somaliland that shows the clearest path to peace in this turbulent corner of the world. It was destroyed in the 1991 civil war yet has emerged as one of the most inspirational stories of rising Africa with a functioning democracy, fierce self-determination and comparatively free expression. The reason is simple: it was not recognised by the outside world when it declared independence. This meant no outside intervention, little aid and the clan elders were left to negotiate their own way forward. This breakaway republic – a former British protectorate – offers cause for hope in the most unlikely circumstances. The world must do all it can to ensure the bloodshed just witnessed in a shopping mall is never repeated by aiding the re-creation of a functioning Somali state. But equally, the lesson from history is that outsiders must tread warily if they are not to make matters worse – and however unpalatable, embrace all parties in any solution.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/kenya-shopping-mall-attack-the-west-must-act-judiciously-over-somalia-if-these-horrors-are-to-end-8835268.html
 
peter grimes said:
Maybe that's all you can see because that's all you're looking for. Did you ignore Formaldehyde's post above?


You're wrong to generalize like that. We can just as easily show that Christians, Buddhists, Shintos, or any other group contain members who have committed barbaric acts. You're bias shows through when you don't acknowledge that.
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Yes, and some US militia groups patrol the southern border to help people crossing it
from dying of thirst. Odd how they get no kudos for that isnt it?

So what is the body count now? 90+. When was the last time Calvanist's went into a
mall and machine gunned 90 people? No I think I will keep my 'bias' (your words)
The religion is the problem
 
If the religion is the problem (and someone's "religion" might be), what's the solution?
 
Borachio said:
If the religion is the problem (and someone's "religion" might be), what's the solution?
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The solution is obvious. It is called self-defense.
I cannot elaborate in detail because it upsets certain posters

Moderator Action: This earns you a vacation from this site - if you wish to continue posting here then refrain from calls for violence against religious or ethnic groups. -ori
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
That's not a solution, though. You'll still have someone's religion as the problem.
 
Chiteng said:
So what is the body count now? 90+. When was the last time Calvanist's went into a
mall and machine gunned 90 people? No I think I will keep my 'bias' (your words)
The religion is the problem
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You mean when was the last time the Lord's Resistance Army massacred far more people in a single incident?

Or the last time the Orange Volunteers planted a pipe bomb at a pub or other business owned by Catholics?

Or the last time the National Liberation Front of Tripura killed a large group of Hindus? In 2001 alone, they killed 405 people along with other related Christian terrorist groups.

Or how about the last time a Christian Norwegian killed 77 people, mostly children?

You can't blame everybody in a particular religious group for the acts of a handful of extremists. This is particularly true when their own religion prohibits such acts.
 
Some of the attackers are being reported to have been American or come from America from near Minnesota. Sort of curious - what I have been reading about this group is they seem to be far less organized than other cells
 
Formaldehyde said:
You mean when was the last time the Lord's Resistance Army massacred far more people in a single incident?

Or the last time the Orange Volunteers planted a pipe bomb at a pub or other business owned by Catholics?

Or the last time the National Liberation Front of Tripura killed a large group of Hindus? In 2001 alone, they killed 405 people along with other related Christian terrorist groups.

Or how about the last time a Christian Norwegian killed 77 people, mostly children?

You can't blame everybody in a particular religious group for the acts of a handful of extremists. This is particularly true when their own religion prohibits such acts.
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No I said Calvanists. And yes I can blame someone, and Islam does NOT prohibit such acts
 
So only Calvinists have this prohibition against mass murdering? What about the Lutherans or Methodists?



It's a shame so many have died. I am a bit confused by the Kenyan government's statements, as of yesterday they were using conditional language to claim the hostages have been freed and the area secured. The offenders themselves seem to be from several nations, including a few from the US.
 
Bah! You're just not looking.

Gesias Cavalcante Souza (often billed as "JZ Calvan")
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There's a definite link to a religious movement right there in his first name. Plainly a corruption adaptation of "Jesus".

Apparently fond of marching bands as well.
 
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