Naming of National Wonders

[Lennier]

One of the things that breaks immersion for me in Civ IV is how some of the National Wonders are named for singular institutions/objects etc. For example, there is one West Point in the world--it's about 60 miles up the Hudson River from New York City. There is one Oxford University--it's in Oxford, England about 80 miles south of London. One solution would be to give all the National Wonders "generic" names like National Park or Heroic Epic (so West Point would be National Military Academy and Oxford University would be National University). But that would be boring.

A more interesting solution would be to give each civilization it's own unique names for the various National Wonders. I invite you to come up with appropriate names for the various civilizations in the game. I'll start by taking America:

National Epic: Evangiline
Heroic Epic: Star Wars
Statuary (aka Moi Statues): National Statuary Hall Collection
National Cultural Center (aka Globe Theater): Lincoln Center
Secondary Capitol (aka The Forbidden Palace): Cheyenne Mountain (could go with Camp David, but that's a little close to DC).
Cultural Palace (aka the Hermitage): Radio City Music Hall
National University: Harvard (sorry Yalies).
National Military Academy: West Point (duh!)
National Shrine (aka Mount Rushmore): Mount Rushmore (duh!)
Ironworks: Carnegie Steel (must change name of city it's built in to Pittsburgh )
National Park: Yellowstone
National Hospital (aka Red Cross): Walter Reed Hospital
National Stock Exchange (aka Wall Street): Wall Street (duh!)

Cheers!

 

[Kjotleik]

Heroic Epic: Star Wars Trek

Just corrected a little spelling error on your part, there. No big deal, no need to thank me...



Yours Sincerely

Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Lennier]

I'm old enough to be a Trekkie (not a Trekker), but Star Wars follows the epic form, whereas Star Trek does not and is therefore ineligible for one of the "Epic" slots.

PS: How about some names for the Viking NWs?

 

[ewht91]

There is one Oxford University--it's in Oxford, England about 80 miles south of London.

News to me, go 80 miles south of London and you'll be in the sea, Oxford's west of London

 

[Geredis]

PS: How about some names for the Viking NWs?

National Epic: Prose Edda
Heroic Epic:
Statuary (aka Moi Statues): Vigelandsparken Sculpture Park
National Cultural Center (aka Globe Theater):
Secondary Capitol (aka The Forbidden Palace): Slottet or Amelianborg Palace
Cultural Palace (aka the Hermitage):
National University: Karolinska Institute
National Military Academy:
National Shrine (aka Mount Rushmore):
Ironworks: SSAB Swedish Steel AB
National Park: Rondane National Park
National Hospital (aka Red Cross):
National Stock Exchange (aka Wall Street): Copenhagen Stock Exchange

=
I've more than a few blanks here, but what I've put in are all things that I think work well - maybe it's also a little too heavy on the early modern and modern eras and perhaps there's some room to add in for places like Finland, more Swedish stuff, and the like, but I think they're a fine start to at least get some thoughts going regarding the Viking/Scandinavian stuff.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Neat idea, but the problem lies in the older civs, like Babylon and Sumeria. Do we know enough about their culture to come up with names? I'm no history nut, so I'm not sure. I'm just throwing the thought out there...

 

[ewht91]

My take on England:

National Epic: Paradise Lost
Heroic epic: Beowulf
Statuary: Angel of the North
Cultural centre: Globe theatre
Secondary capital: One of the many castles/palaces perhaps Blenheim Palace
Cultural Palace: Royal Albert Hall
National university: Oxford University
Military Academy: Sandhurst
National Shrine: Trafalgar Square
Ironworks: ?
National Park: Lake District
National Hospital: NHS
National Stock Exchange: London Stock Exchange

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Neat idea, but the problem lies in the older civs, like Babylon and Sumeria. Do we know enough about their culture to come up with names? I'm no history nut, so I'm not sure. I'm just throwing the thought out there...

Adding to this problem you have civs that in reality never built anything that would be an equivalent to some national wonders. What do you call the Ironworks if you are the Mongols? What do you call Oxford University? Globe Theater?

The simple effective solution would be having rename capability once they were built, so 'Wall Street' could be renamed as the XXXXXXX Stock Exchange with the appropriate city name. Same with Oxford University, so the player could call it University of XXXXXX, or if the preferred Harvard or Yale...or my personal favorite NYSU. But is renaming buildings in play remotely possible, or a hardcode issue?

This would be good for world wonders as well. I'd certainly prefer that my Vikings had a Statue of Odin instead of a Statue of Zeus.

 

[Daraexus]

As my home country is not in Civ IV (I'm Colombian), I'll try to fill the names for France, a country I do love (and I lived there for several years, now I hope to return some day)


1.Palace: Palais du Louvre/Palais de l'Elysee
2.National Epic: La Marseillaise/La Franciade
3.Heroic Epic: La Chanson de Roland/La Pucelle ou la France délivrée
4.Statuary (aka Moi Statues): Recouvrance/Jardin des Tuleries
5.National Cultural Center (aka Globe Theater): Palais Garnier
6.Secondary Capitol (aka The Forbidden Palace): Château de Versailles/Palais des Papes
7.Cultural Palace (aka the Hermitage): Musée du Louvre
8.National University: Université La Sorbonne
9.National Military Academy: École Militaire
10.National Shrine (aka Mount Rushmore): Mount Saint-Michel
11.Ironworks: Renault(?)
12.National Park: Parc de Versailles/Le Jardin du Luxembourg
13.National Hospital (aka Red Cross): L'Hôpital Pitié-Salpetrière
14.National Stock Exchange (aka Wall Street): Euronext Paris

Yes, I put the names in French, but I'll proceed to explain my decisions. Any native french (and not-native) is welcome to correct it. (Même que m'engueuler pour mes mauvaises decisions!!)

1. I think the name "Palace" is also a generic name for all civilizations that can be improved. So, for the Americans, It would be The White House, and for the French, The Louvre Palace or the Elysee Palace (only when running Democracy ).

2. The french national anthem is a great song of patriotism (and how to use the blood of the impure to irrigate fields); it has enough merits to be the National Epic. However, for a more literary choice, La Franciade was intented to be the epic history of France.

3. As a Fire Emblem fan, The Roland's Song was a pretty obvious choice and it fulfills the purpose of the Heroic Epic. As usual, I included another epic poem about Joan d'Arc, one of the most hairy Great Prophets of Civ IV

4. The main function of the Moai Statues is to provide coastal cities with more hammers, so, I tried to pick not a national statuary, but a national wonder that represents the hard work at coastal cities. Le quartier de Recouvrance, at Brest, was my obvious choice. If someone want statues with some sort of significance, Le Jardin des Tuleries in Paris I guess..

5. The home of the Paris Opera (one of the oldest homes at least...). Garnier Palace is my choice for the french Global Theatre.

6. Versailles, the World Wonder has the effect of a Forbidden Palace for a reason... isn't it? But, given that it is avaible for any civilization, I decided to also pick the Palace of Popes, when the popes decided that rome was so insecure and moved to Avignon. It is, nevertheless, a symbol of authority (religious authority).

7. Pretty obvious choice. And yes, I want to see the big crystal pyramid in 3D in one of my cities. Thanks for asking.

8. Self-explanatory. Even If I wanted to choose L'université Claude Bernard de Lyon, just because it is my alma mater

9. Ask Louis XV.

10. Just beautiful. I guess it deserves a place inside the french national wonders.

11. Tough call. I guess Renault Factories allow engineers and production as well... but I'm not 100% sure about this choice.

12. Versailles gardens are enormoooous, even if are part of Versailles castle, so, it fulfills the role of National Park, I guess. If not, Luxemburg garden in Paris is my second call.

13. Well... ehm... the most important public french hospital (?)

14. That's how it is called it (unless I'm terribly wrong)

That's it, that resumes it.

Secondary capital: One of the many castles, perhaps Blenheim

I like better the Holyrood Palace.

 

[Lennier]

Neat idea, but the problem lies in the older civs, like Babylon and Sumeria. Do we know enough about their culture to come up with names? I'm no history nut, so I'm not sure. I'm just throwing the thought out there...

Good point; some of the NWs might have to be semi-generic (Aztec National Military Academy) or made up (Gilgamesh's Steel & Auto Factory ) for the civilizations that never made it to modern times. Of course, we could use Iraq as a modern stand-in for Babylonia.

 

[Daraexus]

Aztec Bloody Military Academic

Beheading Steel & Co.

I guess we can have fun with the Aztecs. Or use Mexico as a standard too and use the modern name: Academia Militarizada de Mexico Azteca or Aztec Militarized Academy.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Adding to this problem you have civs that in reality never built anything that would be an equivalent to some national wonders. What do you call the Ironworks if you are the Mongols? What do you call Oxford University? Globe Theater?

The simple effective solution would be having rename capability once they were built, so 'Wall Street' could be renamed as the XXXXXXX Stock Exchange with the appropriate city name. Same with Oxford University, so the player could call it University of XXXXXX, or if the preferred Harvard or Yale...or my personal favorite NYSU. But is renaming buildings in play remotely possible, or a hardcode issue?

This would be good for world wonders as well. I'd certainly prefer that my Vikings had a Statue of Odin instead of a Statue of Zeus.

I was thinking something along those lines.

Even so, I'd love to read how others might rename their national wonders.

 

[Lennier]

Aztec Bloody Military Academic

Beheading Steel & Co.

I guess we can have fun with the Aztecs. Or use Mexico as a standard too and use the modern name: Academia Militarizada de Mexico Azteca or Aztec Militarized Academy.

I like the Aztec names.

I guess there are very few of the "ancient" civs that do not have a modern country that could act as a stand in.

 

[Daraexus]

That's not technically true, every civ occupied a greographic space that belongs now to one or several countries. Just to clarify a little:

Aztec empire was located mostly in modern mexico territories.

Hammurabi's Babylonia was mostly located on Iran/Iraq

Byzantium is... roughly Turkey and the Balkan peninsula

Carthage was destroyed by Rome long ago, it comprehended Tunisia, North of modern Algeria, North of Morocco and south of Iberic Peninsula.

Celts were located mostly in modern France (as a matter of fact, Bibracte is located in today's france). However, the nations who are related with the celtic culture today are Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Cornwall and French Bretagne had strong celt influence.

The Holy Roman Empire was a mixture of Switzerland, Germany and Austria, as well as the north of Italy and the south-east of France.

Khmer is today's Cambodia

Mayans where in Guatemala, Belice, Honduras, El Salvador and the South of Mexico.

Mongol Empire was HUUUUUGE, but let's say Mongolia. No questions

Persia is today's Iran.

Roman empire was... hum... ok, let's say that Romans are located in Italy (Let's ignore the fact that they had colonies in almost all Europe).

Sumeria is... Iraq. (Well, Babylonia, Sumeria and Acad were regions that blossomed empires during different moments of the history, If I remember well...))

Vikings are the now scandinavian countries and Denmark.

Zulus... let's put them at South Africa.


So, it is true that there are several civilizations that are hard to locate in one single country and perhaps generic names would do the job, but that doesn't have to take the fun of looking for the modern equivalent of NW .

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, it is true that there are several civilizations that are hard to locate in one single country and perhaps generic names would do the job, but that doesn't have to take the fun of looking for the modern equivalent of NW .

I wasn't trying to take the fun out of it...I was just hoping someone would pop up and say 'oh, you want to rename wonders and buildings in game like you do with units? That's easy enough." But no one has...yet. I'll keep hoping though!

 

[Daraexus]

It's quite possible. Altough I don't know how specifically, I guess it's a matter to play with the assets of Civ. I mean, It is quite possible to hard-code the name of the NW using the XMLs. The option to rename it by clicking (or saying a magic word) it's more the mod-like change that perhaps someone DO know how to do already.

Yes, your point, I know. Let's keep the hope.

 

[Kjotleik]

I'm old enough to be a Trekkie (not a Trekker), but Star Wars follows the epic form, whereas Star Trek does not and is therefore ineligible for one of the "Epic" slots.

PS: How about some names for the Viking NWs?

Well, it's ok by me if you think Star Wars is best, no big deal on my part. But I did actually think about Starfleet HQ at San Francisco and the fact that James Kirk himself was/is/will be born in Iowa, USA... just to name the two most important things from Star Trek canon.

I cannot say I know too much about Star Wars canon, but does it have any connection to the American continent at all?

And I have seen that Geredis already posted about the Vikings... I have nothing to add to that without doing some research....if I can figure something out I may post again.


Yours Sincerely

Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Timsup2nothin]

While I'm more than happy to admit being a Star Trek fan, and I'm enough of a Star Wars fan that I'm still playing TIE Fighter (installed from the 3.5" disks, not the new-fangled CD version I might add) but...

I think a national epic should be perhaps a little less...fictional.

How about the Spirit of St Louis?

 

[Kjotleik]

Just some possible suggestions for Vikings... check them out, if you like...


[National Epic]
National Epic: Heimskringla (name meaning "the Circle of the world")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimskringla

[Heroic Epic]
Heroic Epic: Operation Gunnerside (Sabotage of Nazi-Germany's heavy water plant at Rjukan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_heavy_water_sabotage

[National Cultural Centre]
Globe Theatre: Bollhuset (The Ball House)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollhuset

[Secondary Capitol]
Forbidden Palace: Amalienborg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalienborg

[Cultural Palace]
Hermitage: Oslo Opera House (Nice design...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Opera_House



Yours Sincerely

Kjotleik of Norway

 

[Rusty Edge]

While I'm more than happy to admit being a Star Trek fan, and I'm enough of a Star Wars fan that I'm still playing TIE Fighter (installed from the 3.5" disks, not the new-fangled CD version I might add) but...

I think a national epic should be perhaps a little less...fictional.

How about the Spirit of St Louis?

I enjoyed the choice of Star Wars.

The trouble is, making an Epic from a historical event can become controversial.
Something about the Civil War, Westward expanasion, or the Alamo might be accused of racism. Same with the Pacific theater of WWII.

"The Right Stuff "or "Apollo 13" would work for me if I can't have Star Wars.

Spirit of St Louis was a big deal in it's day. I don't know if the story still inspires people .

...............................................................

I guess it's hard for me to be objective. I'll open the question to non-Americans, since a big part of this is about cultural influence.

Which "true story", be it a novel, film, or other expression, do you think of as most American? ( Despite it's vast international appeal, Bay Watch is not a true story.)