Natives Fight Back!

[EnigmaJ]

Ok, I know that Greeks vs Incas was stupid, that diseases never stay nuetral, etc. I was really just asking if the Greeks could conquer the Incas... (It sounds stupider when you say out loud so dont....)

W/e, lets try this one.

If the all Native Americans ( every single nation and tribe all through mesoamerica, south america, the carribean, and north america) somehow knew of the Eurpoeans and allied with each other ( every single nation and tribe all through mesoamerica, south america, the carribean, and north america) .... then...

Its obvious this isnt possible, so please...

Could they have repelled all European invaders? Or even better, why wouldnt this alliance last long?

 

[sheep21]

if they had wanted too the early european settlers would have been very easy to repel, basic matchlock's limited resources and the home advantage.

why wouldnt it last long, the inability to effectively control an alliance spanning 2 continents without at least the telegraph .

It would just put the inevitible off though, it would all just happen anyway from the 1840's onwards as european technology would by then be able to give them a decisive advantage.

 

[LightSpectra]

Again, contrafactuals are silly because you can't just change one significant factor without the others going with it.

How would all of the Native Americans known about European invaders? If they had the technology of precognition or magically had spies in Europe, then that changes the example.

How would all of the Natives communicate with each other? If they all spoke the same language and cared enough about their homeland to work together like that, then that changes the example.

 

[Cynovolans]

Why would the natives unite? They would prefer to take the weapons from the Europeans and defeat their old rivals.

But if they did unite somehow then they would have an advantage. But staying united would difficulted and nearly impossible.

 

[EnigmaJ]

Again, contrafactuals are silly because you can't just change one significant factor without the others going with it.

How would all of the Native Americans known about European invaders? If they had the technology of precognition or magically had spies in Europe, then that changes the example.

How would all of the Natives communicate with each other? If they all spoke the same language and cared enough about their homeland to work together like that, then that changes the example.

1) It doesnt have to be magic. Lets say after a few of the early Europeans campaigns, the natives viewed them on as "barbaric" and realized that theres more to come. And so slowly the news spread... and w/e Just throwing that out... And so they began preparing, kindof like how the Japanses prepared for the Mongols.

2) I dont know. I never thought that lagnuage was that great of a barrier between different groups of peoples. It never seemed so before to me. I guess i'm wrong....

3) What do you mean by "cared enough about their homeland to work together " Why wouldnt they care about defending thier homes???

 

[Verbose]

Some native American nations did manage to put up and effective fight. Like the Mapuche in southern Chile, who managed to hold off the Europeans for centuries, right up until today. Something like 200 000 European troops might have gotten bumped off through compounded Mapuche efforts over the centuries. The key was that they quickly and comprehensively worked out this business about horses and how to handle them.

The mapuche concluded the treaty of Kilin with the Spanich colonial authorities in 1641, whereby Spain recognised their autonomy. The treaty was reaffirmed 28 times until 1860.

And then between 1860 and 1885 the new national powers of Argentian and Chile conducted a very brutal campaign against the Mapuche, killing the by the tens of thousands. In southern Chile they have managed to hold out however.

 

[Mad Man]

I dont know. I never thought that lagnuage was that great of a barrier between different groups of peoples. It never seemed so before to me. I guess i'm wrong....

Of course it would be an issue. Your talking over 600 languages for the US nations alone. How ever if a coalition like that did happen then yes.

 

[dagriggstar]

Hmmmmm....the basic premise is "natives fight back" not "natives unite as one giant empire and fight back"...

What if say, in Aztec mythology, White people on horses were perceived as the devil and should be slaughtered straight away. Perhaps Montezuma sends out an army before Cortes makes all those alliances. Aztecs remain independent, inturn the Inca also remain independent (since Pizarro and the like were looking for more Aztecs).

In the north you'd have to have something similar, some sort of devil mythology with the white man, to have them burn the initial settlements.

 

[Sharwood]

Hmmmmm....the basic premise is "natives fight back" not "natives unite as one giant empire and fight back"...

What if say, in Aztec mythology, White people on horses were perceived as the devil and should be slaughtered straight away. Perhaps Montezuma sends out an army before Cortes makes all those alliances. Aztecs remain independent, inturn the Inca also remain independent (since Pizarro and the like were looking for more Aztecs).

In the north you'd have to have something similar, some sort of devil mythology with the white man, to have them burn the initial settlements.

The Hopi Indians had a tradition that White Men would come and destroy them. So did several other North American Indian groups. I don't know how old these traditions were, maybe they cropped up after refugees began telling them about the Spanish. But what you theorise isn't unheard of.

 

[West 36]

If the natives had utilized deer and more importantly moose- and if they were really long-term thinking, mammoths- as some sort of AWESOME cavalry, then they might have had a chance, because they would look just so damn cool. The wheel would have helped too.

and llamas. Don't forget llamas

 

[Mad Man]

Can a deer even support a mans weight?

 

[holy king]

who cares, they'd have mammoths anyway.

 

[Mad Man]

assuming they didn't kill them off already.

 

[holy king]

it would probably have looked like this:

 

[Sharwood]

If the natives had utilized deer and more importantly moose- and if they were really long-term thinking, mammoths- as some sort of AWESOME cavalry, then they might have had a chance, because they would look just so damn cool. The wheel would have helped too.

and llamas. Don't forget llamas

They should have used alpacas. Those things are scary.

What they should have done is not killed and eaten horses, instead of domesticating them. If they could have tamed the horse, then kept it around a few thousand years, they'd have their cavalry.

 

[West 36]

They should have used alpacas. Those things are scary.

They could hide in the fur. That'd be sweet.

What they should have done is not killed and eaten horses, instead of domesticating them. If they could have tamed the horse, then kept it around a few thousand years, they'd have their cavalry.

With that kind of thinking, they could have done the same with the mammoths, and then holy king's pic could be an archeological piece but, you know, with out the facial hair.

 

[Sharwood]

They could hide in the fur. That'd be sweet.

And eventually, through selective breeding, they could get attack alpacas with saliva more acidic than usual. These could then spit in the faces of the Spaniards in battle, blinding them for an easy kill.

With that kind of thinking, they could have done the same with the mammoths, and then holy king's pic could be an archeological piece but, you know, with out the facial hair.

Also without the general blueness of skin and said hair. Unless the Incas were Chiss and no-one told me.

Maybe they could have kept Neanderthals as slaves, and unleashed them on invaders. They were pretty stocky and strong, they'd likely be hard to kill.

 

[SoldierChild]

I would have to say no they couldn't because disease would have ran rabid through the ranks of the natives.

Alliances always fail in the ned at some point in time two powers that are allies will see that to be number one they have to take the other one.

 

[pi-r8]

wasn't this basically what Tecumseh tried to do? At least with the tribes of the eastern US. And yeah, After small pox etc had run their course, and the indian tribes learned about guns and horses, it would be an equal fight.

 

[Millman]

I don't as bad for them because it seemed like they kinda wanted this. Although it seems very stupid today it was no better for them to aid someone unfriendly to them. I see blame on both sides.

It's good to know at least some people are not happy at these events.