Natural Allies/Enemies guessing

[GenyaArikado]

So now we got the 20 who do you think is gonna love/hate each other based on their agendas/gameplay.

I can see Cleopatra/Gilgamesh and Cleopatra/Gorgo already being a thing. On the other hand I can see Tomyris HATING Cleopatra being a thing as well.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Not quite sure we see AI lovesfest over and over, we at least should not. The hidden agenda should be able to stop this. That as far as I know will change every game.

 

[Joketa]

Gorgo will hate Gandhi.
Hojo will love Gorgon.
Qin Shi Huang will hate any leader of Egypt or France.
Any leader of England will hate itself regardless of how successful the Civ becomes. It will wallow in self-loathing and Inception-level layers of irony in which no one knows whether or not they're being ironical or sincere.

 

[WiseGreen]

Barbarossa/Pericles are probably guaranteed to hate each other. Nzinga and Philip will probably have a somewhat problematic relationship, as it's very possible Nzinga ends up liking Philip but everyone else he likes Philip's gonna dislike, and vice-versa.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Teddy: One of the easiest AIs in the game to get along with. Will likely be friends with everyone except his immediate neighbors.

Saladin: A natural enemy to anyone who's likely to found a religion, especially Philip, but also Gandhi, Pericles, Gorgo, Hojo, and Peter. Qin too, if he manages to get Stonehenge. Always friendly with Mvemba though.

Pedro: Hates anyone who generates more great people than he does, but not many rivals can. Montezuma, Victoria, and Mvemba seem like the most likely candidates for earning his ire.

Qin: Certain to hate Cleopatra and Catherine every game.

Cleopatra: She likes anyone who's aggressive, so almost everybody. Will always hate Gandhi though.

Victoria: By far the most difficult AI to get along with. Likely to be enemies with everyone, including you, every single game, unless you get lucky enough to have her right next door.

Catherine: Since the AI doesn't seem to prioritize counterspying much, which is the only thing she hates, she's likely to have lots of friends.

Frederick: Hates Pericles and probably Gilgamesh too.

Pericles: Hates Fredrick and probably anybody who starts nearby him.

Gorgo: Gandhi's eternal nemesis.

Gandhi: The AIs are always declaring war on each other for stupid reasons, so he's likely to hate everybody except you. Unless you're playing aggressively of course. Then he'll hate you too.

Hojo: Since most of the civs have unique infrastructures that generate culture or faith or both, he doesn't seem like he'll be too difficult to get along with. Likely to end up having the same preferences as Cleopatra.

Mvemba: The opposite of Saladin, basically. Expect Philip and Saladin to fight over him constantly.

Harald: Will always be spurning Cleopatra's unrequited love. He likes naval civs, so Victoria, Pedro, Fredrick, and Philip.

Trajan: The reverse of Pedro and Qin, he only respects civs who can beat him at his own game, which is almost nobody. Might get along with Peter every once in a while.

Peter: Loves Qin and Saladin. Otherwise, he's a total crapshoot.

Tomyris: Hates everyone for the same reasons Gandhi does. Might make friends with Gilgamesh if they start close to each other.

Philip: Surprisingly easy to make friends with. Will otherwise have the same preferences as Saladin.

Gilgamesh: Super friendly by design. Not much else to say.

Montezuma: Easy enough for a human player to get on his good side by just selling him luxuries, but the AI probably isn't smart enough to figure this out, so he'll hate everyone.

 

[Tomice]

Great post, Ivan!

 

[gunnergoz]

I wonder if, once we get into the code, we might find more "sneak" agendas coded into the game that will tend to make various civ's like or dislike one another no matter what their apparent fixed & hidden agendas. Think of it as a built-in bias. It would make sense from a historical standpoint. It may also be possible to mod such into the game at some point, especially if it could differentiate between, say, types of city states for example. You could have a Civ that hated religious city states and admired economic or industrial ones.

 

[Abraxis]

Hojo: Since most of the civs have unique infrastructures that generate culture or faith or both, he doesn't seem like he'll be too difficult to get along with. Likely to end up having the same preferences as Cleopatra.

This is false. Hojo does not like/dislike people based on the size of their military. He only cares about people with a large military. If you do not have a large military he has no opinion of you. If you have a large military however, he will hate you, unless you also have either good faith output, or strong culture output, in these cases he'll love you. Very different from Cleo.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

This is false. Hojo does not like/dislike people based on the size of their military. He only cares about people with a large military. If you do not have a large military he has no opinion of you. If you have a large military however, he will hate you, unless you also have either good faith output, or strong culture output, in these cases he'll love you. Very different from Cleo.

While it may be different on paper, I'm guessing it'll end up being very similar in practice.

Most of the leaders in the vanilla game are aggressive, so most of them will build up a large military. And since most of them also have unique infrastructures that give culture or faith or both, they'll also be ahead in that regard. So Cleopatra and Hojo will end up liking the same people (almost everyone) most of the time.

 

[treadwin]

I find Catherine de Medici to be the most ironic of these. This is a woman who in reality managed to simultaneously be hated by both Catholics and Protestants, all the countries of Europe (including her home) Italian states, as well as by the French people.

Yet, "she's likely to have lots of friends".

 

[Lord Lakely]

Does the AI even use Espionage properly? Cathérine hates players who disregard it, so I think she's likely to loathe a lot of AI players.

 

[kaspergm]

From what we've seen so far in the previews, it looks like the agenda thing is effective at one thing: Every AI will hate every other player in the game.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Does the AI even use Espionage properly? Cathérine hates players who disregard it, so I think she's likely to loathe a lot of AI players.

Actually, if you look at the Chinese leak, they switched it to the other way around. Now she hates people who kill her spies and likes anyone who ignores them.

 

[Abraxis]

While it may be different on paper, I'm guessing it'll end up being very similar in practice.

Most of the leaders in the vanilla game are aggressive, so most of them will build up a large military. And since most of them also have unique infrastructures that give culture or faith or both, they'll also be ahead in that regard. So Cleopatra and Hojo will end up liking the same people (almost everyone) most of the time.

Unless he judges by an average relative to the given civs for each game. In which case it would function as intended, and there is really no reason not to code it that way. Yes Tomyris has a faith UI, but Ghandi will have more.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Unless he judges by an average relative to the given civs for each game. In which case it would function as intended, and there is really no reason not to code it that way. Yes Tomyris has a faith UI, but Ghandi will have more.

He might judge them relative to himself... so his cheap holy sites/theaters with extra adjacency bonuses might make it hard to impress him.

 

[joncnunn]

Quin merely dislikes those who have built more world wonders (and loves those with fewer); that makes him the absolute easiest for a human to get along with. As to AIs we don't know their flavors yet.

Cleo doesn't care about aggressiveness in either direction : What she does is love civs with a larger army than hers and hate those weak military.

Victoria: Distance doesn't matter, what does is where the continental boundary is.

Fredrick: Hates everybody who allies city states along with everybody that conquers one: Which basically means every single AI.

Gorgo: Will the moment any war ends that's not white peace hate the loser. If poorly implemented (city ceded traded for cash) might actually hate both sides for having given something up.

Hojo: You actually get in trouble with him by building military too fast; e.g. before either your culture or faith has exceeded his.

Monty: The human would also have to avoid ever founding a city that resulted in him having no spare copy to sell. In addition, it was seen on an earlier video him calling up and complaining the turn between the human improving the first and second copies of a luxury.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Cleo doesn't care about aggressiveness in either direction : What she does is love civs with a larger army than hers and hate those weak military.

You're not going to have a big army if you don't plan to use it.

 

[Martinus]

So now we got the 20 who do you think is gonna love/hate each other based on their agendas/gameplay.

I can see Cleopatra/Gilgamesh and Cleopatra/Gorgo already being a thing. On the other hand I can see Tomyris HATING Cleopatra being a thing as well.

Cleopatra/Gorgo could be an unrequited affair, though, depending how easily Cleo folds in a losing war.

I can see Trajan and Peter being best buds.

 

[joncnunn]

You're not going to have a big army if you don't plan to use it.

Quite wrong for both humans & AIs:

On the AI side it's a given that there will be some AI with a high unit flavor / low aggressiveness flavor combo.

On the Human side at high difficulty levels, if you don't want a war with the AI at the moment for every civ since Civ I, the most effective thing to do is build an army big enough that the AI thinks yours is more powerful.
It may cost more GPT in terms of maintenance than having a weak one, but it's a lot cheaper than having an Immortal level AI wiping out trade units and pillaging your tiles.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Quite wrong for both humans & AIs:

On the AI side it's a given that there will be some AI with a high unit flavor / low aggressiveness flavor combo.

On the Human side at high difficulty levels, if you don't want a war with the AI at the moment for every civ since Civ I, the most effective thing to do is build an army big enough that the AI thinks yours is more powerful.
It may cost more GPT in terms of maintenance than having a weak one, but it's a lot cheaper than having an Immortal level AI wiping out trade units and pillaging your tiles.

I don't get it. You make a huge army so the AI doesn't declare war on you, but then you just sit on it instead of steam rolling the AI with it and winning the game? Why?