Naval Damage

[BomberEscort]

With the latest changes (1.0.1.135), naval defenders now defend at 40% of their listed combat strength.

The first number is the 1.0.0.621 defense (1.0.1.135 Defense vs Land/Air)
The second number is the 1.0.1.135 defense vs Naval
The third number is the ranged attack (unchanged between versions)


Trireme--------- 6 2.4 04
Caravel-------- 15 06 07
Frigate-------- 30 12 15
S-O-L---------- 30 12 17
Ironclad------- 35 14 18
Destroyer------ 35 14 22
Submarine------ 25 10 60
Battleship----- 60 24 32
Nuclear Sub---- 30 12 70
Missile Cruiser 60 24 25


There are strategies that emerge for naval warfare now. The most obvious being strike first. Secondly, if you are fighting a superior navy, you must take the fight to them, if you wait, you will get decimated. Subs have also moved into a class of their own. At 60 and 70 ranged attack, they can one shot most ships (all but the Battleship and Missile Cruiser). Overall, I like the changes. I'm uncertain if those defensive penalties are only for Naval v Naval. If not, a Catapult that now attacks at 11 could do serious damage to modern ships...

 

[Larsenex]

Someone should get out and test! I love the feed back!

 

[stormerne]

I haven't tried any of this to check, but wouldn't you mean...

Nuclear Sub---- 70 28 70

...to be consistent?

In any case, it would mean more than ever that you shouldn't be lazy and move your ships all possible tiles in a single move. Instead you should move them one tile at a time so that you can retreat if you start to see something you don't like.

Of course a ship on a hill will still get +25%...

 

[autumnmist]

I'm uncertain if those defensive penalties are only for Naval v Naval. If not, a Catapult that now attacks at 11 could do serious damage to modern ships...

Well we just played a game last night where our destroyers were kinda getting massacred by Japan's artillery. Destroyer could take 2 hits and be in the red/danger of death and need to retreat.

 

[Ahriman]

Didn't it always work like that?

 

[autumnmist]

Didn't it always work like that?

Not quite as drastic as this, for us... considering Japan was fighting with a -33% very unhappy penalty and they were still doing so much damage.

 

[Bleser]

This is great. It was super-frustrating to need four destroyers to take out a single enemy destroyer in one turn - making it almost impossible to defend your cross-ocean armies.

 

[BomberEscort]

I haven't tried any of this to check, but wouldn't you mean...

Nuclear Sub---- 70 28 70

...to be consistent?

Edited the first post. Should be 30/12/70

 

[BomberEscort]

Well we just played a game last night where our destroyers were kinda getting massacred by Japan's artillery. Destroyer could take 2 hits and be in the red/danger of death and need to retreat.

Not good. I was hoping it was for Naval v naval only. Also, ships cannot heal in non-friendly seas by default, so they have to return sooner.

 

[bryanw1995]

only for naval vs naval verified last night.

I liked the old way, but I was in the minority and I can deal with the changes.

 

[Ahriman]

only for naval vs naval verified last night.

I liked the old way, but I was in the minority and I can deal with the changes.

Good.

Me too, I don't really like insta-kill alpha strikes on units that can have 6-7+ movement in a turn-based game.

Two large equal size navies, one of them comes in out of nowhere and destroys half the other navy just because it got to fire first? And you can't even keep your navy in port to protect it.

I'd be more ok with high lethality naval combat if there were a counter-battery ability.

I kinda like subs having a powerful alpha strike, but not regular units.

 

[BomberEscort]

Good.

Me too, I don't really like insta-kill alpha strikes on units that can have 6-7+ movement in a turn-based game.

Two large equal size navies, one of them comes in out of nowhere and destroys half the other navy just because it got to fire first? And you can't even keep your navy in port to protect it.

I'd be more ok with high lethality naval combat if there were a counter-battery ability.

I kinda like subs having a powerful alpha strike, but not regular units.

Positioning of units will be very important now. Keep your high strength units near the coast, and have those outdated caravels and frigates at the edge of your sea border. That way they get picked off or block ZOCs so you can counter strike. Also, don't grant open borders!

 

[BomberEscort]

Also, Targeting I-III will be huge in naval battles now!

Targeting I: +20% for sea attack, -60% on target ship defense
Targeting II: +40% for sea attack, -60% on target ship defense
Targeting III: +60% for sea attack, -60% on target ship defense

We need Cover promotions for Naval units now...

A Targeting III Frigate (24 ) can go toe-to-toe with a Battleship (24 ) and a Targeting III Nuclear Submarine (112 ) can dominate any ship in one hit since the best possible defense would be 24 (Battleship or Missile Cruiser)... and don't forget cruise missiles (70 ).

EDIT: Fortunately, Targeting also works for the defender...