Naval Improvements I'd Like to See
- Thread starter Khan Quest
- Start date
hewhoknowsall
Warlord
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- Nov 30, 2009
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K, thanks
Atwork
Immortal
As to carriers carrying bombers, here's one suggestion: 1 bomber takes the space of 2 fighters. So, a carrier could carry 2 bombers or 1 bomber and 2 fighters.....It wouldn't be consistent with how cities/forts/airports support aircraft though.....
Or, the game could employ a naval bomber unit.....the Avenger or B-25 for WWII era.....the A-6 or F-4 for jet age......or whatevs
But, I would actually like to be able to upgrade fighters and specialize them into naval attack fighters or light bombers.....some upgrade like, "Naval Striker 1" = +10% to ship attack, "Naval Striker II" = +25% to ship attack, etc....Or, "Ground Support I" = +10% Collateral Damage, etc, which would give fighters the ability to cause collateral damage and give 'em some added strength as ground attack fighters off carriers.
Even as it is though, a few carrier groups can really devastate an enemy's territory and soften up their defenses in preparation for invasion!
Or, the game could employ a naval bomber unit.....the Avenger or B-25 for WWII era.....the A-6 or F-4 for jet age......or whatevs
But, I would actually like to be able to upgrade fighters and specialize them into naval attack fighters or light bombers.....some upgrade like, "Naval Striker 1" = +10% to ship attack, "Naval Striker II" = +25% to ship attack, etc....Or, "Ground Support I" = +10% Collateral Damage, etc, which would give fighters the ability to cause collateral damage and give 'em some added strength as ground attack fighters off carriers.
Even as it is though, a few carrier groups can really devastate an enemy's territory and soften up their defenses in preparation for invasion!
trickofthehand
Prince
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- Oct 16, 2007
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- 310
Try Merged Mod, it's new air combat mechanics make carriers EXTREMELY useful. Also the AI will actually build and use carriers effectively! You can use carrier-borne fighters to launch Fighter Engagement missions, sink enemy ships, and bomb (and possibly sink) enemy ships hiding or repairing in port. Also in Merged Mod your air units have a limited movement range, usually just a tad bigger than it's operational range. You can't just use 1 movement turn to move a fighters or bomber anywhere in the world. This increases the effectiveness of carriers because you can easily rush a few carriers to hotspots and places that are out of range of friendly airfields. Merged Mod also inclues a WW2 era light bomber which can be based off carriers.
Also Merged Mod includes DCM's ranged bombardment for ships, which means that if two fleets are facing off you can choose to have some of your ships expend their Attack for a Bombardment on the enemy fleet (like artillery) to soften them up.
Silurian
Deity
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- Jan 5, 2010
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- 7,567
@atwork ideas for up grades naval bomber light bomber are good
Sea mines
Sea mines should be added and should be able to be launched from destroyers, bombers, stealth bombers and submarines.
One sea mine should be able to be carried by, bombers, stealth bombers and submarines. Destroyers would carry 3 sea mines. Destroyers would require a “mine layer” up grade which also would -10% to strength (loss of space on ship)
Sea mines could be laid in any coast or ocean tile. Only submarines could lay under ice. Sea mines self destruct 10% per turn (after being laid) since they are not maintained after being laid.
An enemy, neutral or allied unit moving into a mined tile would have say 50% chance per mine of sailing pass the mine and not seeing it and 50% chance of the mine attacking one unit. The mine would cease to exist after it attacked. Any number of mines can be laid in a tile. Mines would appear on your maps but would be affected by fog of war; so you do not know if it has malfunctioned. If you trade maps then they know where your mines where laid so can avoid the mined tiles. If a mine attacks a ship you just get the mine shown on screen with message “enemy ship mined”. If you can see the tile then you can see the actual damage.
A mined tile can not be worked. Mines can only be laid in enemy territory during war but will last until removed or self destruct. Mines laid on the high seas would have diplomatic consequences (say -1 per ship sunk max 3) say 20% of time when neutral or allied ships hit them. This would also apply to mines you laid within your own territory, tell people where your mines are or face the consequences.
Destroyers with the “mine sweeper 1” up grade would have say 50% chance of seeing each mine on a tile and it then gets to appear on the map. If the destroyer can see the mine it has 50% chance of removing mine per turn and 5% chance of the mine attacking the destroyer. And “mine sweeper 2” 60% of seeing 60% removing 3% of failing and getting hit itself and 20% chance of seeing each mine in adjacent tiles “mine sweeper 3” 70% 70% 2% 30%.
Shipborne Helicopter - Transport/ASW Helicopter
A new transport/ ASW Helicopter should be come available that can fly over coast and ocean as well as land.
When it is built you can chose the transport or the ASW up grade. If you chose one up grade you can not carry out the other.
One shipborne helicopter should be able to be carried by destroyers, missile cruisers, transports and three by an aircraft carrier. Destroyers, missile cruisers and transports would require a “helo pad” up grade which also would -10% to strength (loss of space on ship)
An ASW upgraded helicopter could carry out ASW, anti shipping and recon from ships, forts and cities in the same way as other aircraft. It would have a range of 4 tiles.
ASW would be like recon but would only see 3x3 on surface and 25% chance of seeing submarine but not attacking and 25% chance of seeing and attacking if hostile. If a submarine has been spotted then other helicopters can attack. Submarines can see helicopter can see helicopter carrying out ASW but can not attack them or do them damage when they attack.
“Transport” up graded helicopters would be able to load a Marine, Paratrooper, Infantry, SAM Infantry or Anti tank unit and move it to an unoccupied tile up to four tiles away using “Helo Transport” option. Similar way to the Paradrop option in Civ 4. This could take place from a transport or land tile. If the “Helo Transport” option is used but no modern foot unit is loaded then you can click on a foot unit up to 4 tiles away and it will move to the land tile or transport (subject to space) where the helicopter is located. “Transport” up graded helicopters based on destroyers or carriers in the same tile as a transport with a “helo pad” upgrade would also be able to “Helo Transport” to and from the transport. “Transport” would up graded to “Air assault” would allow Marines and Paratroopers to attack an occupied tile.
“Transport” up graded helicopters would also be able to pillage up to 4 tiles away.
A transport/ ASW Helicopter on a ship would be able to rebase between ships and or land tile up to 4 tiles away. If it rebased to a city it could then rebase any other city.
Transport/ ASW Helicopter would be able to be intercepted by SAM in a similar way to Gunships.
Sea mines
Sea mines should be added and should be able to be launched from destroyers, bombers, stealth bombers and submarines.
One sea mine should be able to be carried by, bombers, stealth bombers and submarines. Destroyers would carry 3 sea mines. Destroyers would require a “mine layer” up grade which also would -10% to strength (loss of space on ship)
Sea mines could be laid in any coast or ocean tile. Only submarines could lay under ice. Sea mines self destruct 10% per turn (after being laid) since they are not maintained after being laid.
An enemy, neutral or allied unit moving into a mined tile would have say 50% chance per mine of sailing pass the mine and not seeing it and 50% chance of the mine attacking one unit. The mine would cease to exist after it attacked. Any number of mines can be laid in a tile. Mines would appear on your maps but would be affected by fog of war; so you do not know if it has malfunctioned. If you trade maps then they know where your mines where laid so can avoid the mined tiles. If a mine attacks a ship you just get the mine shown on screen with message “enemy ship mined”. If you can see the tile then you can see the actual damage.
A mined tile can not be worked. Mines can only be laid in enemy territory during war but will last until removed or self destruct. Mines laid on the high seas would have diplomatic consequences (say -1 per ship sunk max 3) say 20% of time when neutral or allied ships hit them. This would also apply to mines you laid within your own territory, tell people where your mines are or face the consequences.
Destroyers with the “mine sweeper 1” up grade would have say 50% chance of seeing each mine on a tile and it then gets to appear on the map. If the destroyer can see the mine it has 50% chance of removing mine per turn and 5% chance of the mine attacking the destroyer. And “mine sweeper 2” 60% of seeing 60% removing 3% of failing and getting hit itself and 20% chance of seeing each mine in adjacent tiles “mine sweeper 3” 70% 70% 2% 30%.
Shipborne Helicopter - Transport/ASW Helicopter
A new transport/ ASW Helicopter should be come available that can fly over coast and ocean as well as land.
When it is built you can chose the transport or the ASW up grade. If you chose one up grade you can not carry out the other.
One shipborne helicopter should be able to be carried by destroyers, missile cruisers, transports and three by an aircraft carrier. Destroyers, missile cruisers and transports would require a “helo pad” up grade which also would -10% to strength (loss of space on ship)
An ASW upgraded helicopter could carry out ASW, anti shipping and recon from ships, forts and cities in the same way as other aircraft. It would have a range of 4 tiles.
ASW would be like recon but would only see 3x3 on surface and 25% chance of seeing submarine but not attacking and 25% chance of seeing and attacking if hostile. If a submarine has been spotted then other helicopters can attack. Submarines can see helicopter can see helicopter carrying out ASW but can not attack them or do them damage when they attack.
“Transport” up graded helicopters would be able to load a Marine, Paratrooper, Infantry, SAM Infantry or Anti tank unit and move it to an unoccupied tile up to four tiles away using “Helo Transport” option. Similar way to the Paradrop option in Civ 4. This could take place from a transport or land tile. If the “Helo Transport” option is used but no modern foot unit is loaded then you can click on a foot unit up to 4 tiles away and it will move to the land tile or transport (subject to space) where the helicopter is located. “Transport” up graded helicopters based on destroyers or carriers in the same tile as a transport with a “helo pad” upgrade would also be able to “Helo Transport” to and from the transport. “Transport” would up graded to “Air assault” would allow Marines and Paratroopers to attack an occupied tile.
“Transport” up graded helicopters would also be able to pillage up to 4 tiles away.
A transport/ ASW Helicopter on a ship would be able to rebase between ships and or land tile up to 4 tiles away. If it rebased to a city it could then rebase any other city.
Transport/ ASW Helicopter would be able to be intercepted by SAM in a similar way to Gunships.
Spartan300
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 53
good ideas, and workable as the era when mines would be used a game turn would normally last only 1 year so it would stay within a decent timescale.
are you also suggesting when exchanging maps that you could exchange information? such as enemy unit placement (if you know it)?
are you also suggesting when exchanging maps that you could exchange information? such as enemy unit placement (if you know it)?
Silurian
Deity
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- Jan 5, 2010
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- 7,567
Map is same as CIV 4 BtS. The map shows the tiles that you laid mines in and mines that you have seen. I assume that miltary maps that record the position of the mines within the tile, hence allowing your units to pass through the minefield to remain secret.
Spartan300
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2010
- Messages
- 53
so we can now have a new diplomacy screen for military information.
for me it would be a nice addition
i also like the idea of basically customising warships, there are not enough in the game.
for me it would be a nice addition
i also like the idea of basically customising warships, there are not enough in the game.
Silurian
Deity
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- Jan 5, 2010
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Not all Naval but
Missiles
The role of missiles in the game should be increased
They should be able to be launched from destroyers, bombers, stealth bombers and a new rocket launcher unit.
Missiles should also be able to be used as an extended range SAM if they are built with the “interception” up grade.
One missile should be able to be carried by destroyers.
Destroyers would require a “missile 1” and or “advanced radar 1” up grade which also would -10% (or -20% if both) to strength (loss of space on ship) to carry and use missiles.
“Missile 1” would allow the missile be used against shipping, land units, cities etc as now, but the missile would have a range of 3 tiles and -30% strength to the missile.
Then “missile 2” up grade (no additional loss to destroyer) would give 4 tile range and -15% strength to the missile.
The “advanced radar 1” up grade would allow fighters, jet fighters, bombers, stealth bombers, missiles to be intercepted at two tile range. It would also give a 10% bonus with out missiles in normal combat against air units.
The “advanced radar 2” (no additional loss to destroyer) up grade would allow fighters, jet fighters, bombers, stealth bombers, missiles to be intercepted at three tile range. It would also give a 20% bonus with out missiles in normal combat against air units.
The missile would have to have the “interception- area defence” or “interception- point defence” button” pressed to be fired. Area defence would allow interception to be undertaken in defence of units within 2 or 3 tiles of the destroyer depending on the upgrade plus self defence. Point defence would allow interception to be made against the same tile only. The chances of interception would have to be determined by games testing.
“Advanced radar 1” and “advanced radar 2” would also be up grades available to missile cruisers but there would be no -10% to the strength of the ship.
Bombers and stealth bombers with “missile 1” or “missile 2” would be able to carry one missile and fire missiles in a similar way to destroyers against shipping, land units, cities etc.
The bomber would have a “missile strike” option which would allow a standard missile to be chosen to load onto the bomber then a tile to be selected from which to carry out the missile strike. It would then be decided if SAMs (or fighters) intercepted the bomber on that tile and was shot down , turned back damaged or could fire the missile. The missile could then be fired from that tile with the same down grades as for destroyer.
A new rocket launcher unit (one mp, two defensive points, no attack point) would be able to carry missiles between cities on land tiles and fire them. They could be moved in transports but could not fire from then. A rocket launcher with “missile 1” would be able to fire against shipping, land units, cities etc as now with four range and no downgrade. “Advanced radar 1” and “advanced radar 2” would also be up grades available to rocket launcher unit.
Missiles
The role of missiles in the game should be increased
They should be able to be launched from destroyers, bombers, stealth bombers and a new rocket launcher unit.
Missiles should also be able to be used as an extended range SAM if they are built with the “interception” up grade.
One missile should be able to be carried by destroyers.
Destroyers would require a “missile 1” and or “advanced radar 1” up grade which also would -10% (or -20% if both) to strength (loss of space on ship) to carry and use missiles.
“Missile 1” would allow the missile be used against shipping, land units, cities etc as now, but the missile would have a range of 3 tiles and -30% strength to the missile.
Then “missile 2” up grade (no additional loss to destroyer) would give 4 tile range and -15% strength to the missile.
The “advanced radar 1” up grade would allow fighters, jet fighters, bombers, stealth bombers, missiles to be intercepted at two tile range. It would also give a 10% bonus with out missiles in normal combat against air units.
The “advanced radar 2” (no additional loss to destroyer) up grade would allow fighters, jet fighters, bombers, stealth bombers, missiles to be intercepted at three tile range. It would also give a 20% bonus with out missiles in normal combat against air units.
The missile would have to have the “interception- area defence” or “interception- point defence” button” pressed to be fired. Area defence would allow interception to be undertaken in defence of units within 2 or 3 tiles of the destroyer depending on the upgrade plus self defence. Point defence would allow interception to be made against the same tile only. The chances of interception would have to be determined by games testing.
“Advanced radar 1” and “advanced radar 2” would also be up grades available to missile cruisers but there would be no -10% to the strength of the ship.
Bombers and stealth bombers with “missile 1” or “missile 2” would be able to carry one missile and fire missiles in a similar way to destroyers against shipping, land units, cities etc.
The bomber would have a “missile strike” option which would allow a standard missile to be chosen to load onto the bomber then a tile to be selected from which to carry out the missile strike. It would then be decided if SAMs (or fighters) intercepted the bomber on that tile and was shot down , turned back damaged or could fire the missile. The missile could then be fired from that tile with the same down grades as for destroyer.
A new rocket launcher unit (one mp, two defensive points, no attack point) would be able to carry missiles between cities on land tiles and fire them. They could be moved in transports but could not fire from then. A rocket launcher with “missile 1” would be able to fire against shipping, land units, cities etc as now with four range and no downgrade. “Advanced radar 1” and “advanced radar 2” would also be up grades available to rocket launcher unit.
WeaselSlapper
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2009
- Messages
- 505
I really like the idea of a Fighter/Bomber and I do think that the role of carriers should be improved. Carriers should cost a lot more (maybe double what they cost now) but should have a much higher capacity. For me 3 fighters just isn't enough for a carrier.
There defiantly needs to be a unit between Ironclads/Frigates and Destroyers that gap is just far too great.
There defiantly needs to be a unit between Ironclads/Frigates and Destroyers that gap is just far too great.
WeaselSlapper
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2009
- Messages
- 505
Radar should double the sight range of modern ships and submarines should be double to triple strength when they aren't seen (either by a destroyer or reconning plane)
I'd like to see these two units appear:
1. pre-dreadnought battleship: say str.-18, move-4 can enter ocean squares, can bombard cities (-14%/turn). trainable with steam power, steel, and artillery and requires coal.
2. torpedo boat: str.-10, move-5 +100% vs. water unit attack. Trainable with assembly line and requires coal.
1. pre-dreadnought battleship: say str.-18, move-4 can enter ocean squares, can bombard cities (-14%/turn). trainable with steam power, steel, and artillery and requires coal.
2. torpedo boat: str.-10, move-5 +100% vs. water unit attack. Trainable with assembly line and requires coal.
Nimitz96
Chieftain
O.K the torpedo bomber is a good Idea because bombers shouldn't be on carriers and the mines would ad a fear aspect. I have two Ideas 1. Hospital ships 2.fleets
1. hospital ships. don't you hate it when an amphibious landing goes sour and over half of your units are like 1/4 or 2/5 and the cities barracks has been destroied?!?!?!?! we'll the hospital ship would be like a barracks at sea. It could have 4 capacity so the AI wont use it as a transport (like they use the transports
) and it would heal in one turn. and fleets. They would act like an army at sea but filled with ships it could transport a carrier with aircraft, and 2 or 3 escorts. I like the idea.
1. hospital ships. don't you hate it when an amphibious landing goes sour and over half of your units are like 1/4 or 2/5 and the cities barracks has been destroied?!?!?!?! we'll the hospital ship would be like a barracks at sea. It could have 4 capacity so the AI wont use it as a transport (like they use the transports
) and it would heal in one turn. and fleets. They would act like an army at sea but filled with ships it could transport a carrier with aircraft, and 2 or 3 escorts. I like the idea.
Atwork
Immortal
I usually give a few of my transports the First Aid upgrade. I place my best marines on the 'Healing Transports' because I know that those marines will be taking hits. After I've conquered a coastal city, I place the transports inside the conquered city along with the injured troops. The troops get the bonus to healing; and the transports wouldn't be moving anywhere without their precious cargo anyways -- so it works out well.
I think torpedobombers should be covered by an anti- ship promotion....
There should be more promotions to naval units in general to make them more diverse.
ASW promotion, land bombardment promotion, blockade runner (makes galleons "invisible" like subs), etc
There should be more promotions to naval units in general to make them more diverse.
ASW promotion, land bombardment promotion, blockade runner (makes galleons "invisible" like subs), etc
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
Heavy bombers aren't obsolete at all. There still isn't anything else that can do saturation bombing as well. Thus, the two great heavy bombers of the Cold War - the Tu-95 and the B-52 - are still in service, and still used in (very recent) major operations.
Besides the cost, they have characteristics not possessed by modern fighter-bombers. The payload is vastly higher, which is why they are so well-suited to saturation bombing. The range is enormous - over 6000 miles. This means there are possible targets that only heavy bombers can reach right now, until a carrier arrives in the area. The range allows them to do things fighter-bombers cannot do, such as remain aloft in readiness near a target for much longer periods of time. Having a longer range does not impose the requirement of a carrier, which is a pretty big logistics investment (not to mention an increasingly vulnerable platform).
The US is planning on keeping the B-52 around for at least another 30 years - and even then, they are not retiring the heavy bomber role, but simply replacing it with a new design (supposedly in 2037).
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