Naval Strategy Question of sorts.

[Salope]

I'm into the 1700s in a game on a huge map with continents. i'm at a point where i own the largest continent, my area being double the remaining two civs, the aztecs and the russians. i've been fighting a war of attrition for a few hunded years now against those two. i'm ahead in tech and have stealth and advanced armor. russia is still running around on horses.

what's been transpiring of late is a total sea war. each of those opponents sends a fairly steady line of battleships at my shores. even with air support, i have no guarantee that i will take out a one hit left battleship with my full elite battleship. that is really frustrating. so, for some 20 years now, this has been going on. aztec or russian battleships show up offshore, pop off at an improvement, and i counter with bombing it and hitting it with whatever naval vessel i have available in the area. some of these attacks are through regular paths but many seem random. i'm covering an extremely long shoreline which is being hit on both sides of my continent. basically, i'd call it a standstill. in the land wars, i romped. but the land wars are over for now. neither of them will talk to me to end this madness (i was bad. i was very very bad). so, i have a plan. if there is a flaw, please let me know before i go too far with this as i've only been playing a month or so. the level is the second from the lowest level. i really need to deal a blow to one or both of these scoundrels to insure a successful invasion.

my production on the main area of the continent is up to par. production on the far end is weak as i took all the cities from the english and they are just beginning to produce temples. i've been boosting production there as much as i can by sending bombers and disbanding them for shields. all told, i'd guess my probably twice the production of either of the other two. anyway, i'm going to build some fleets. throughout the hundreds years war, i've always managed to keep most of my cities in improvement production instead of military. now i'm going to full military production. i'll use bombers to help speed up navel builds on the weak production ports. the high production interior cities will be used for stealth bombers and fighters. i just got the tech for these birds and i'm not sure of their performance. but what i plan is each fleet consisting of 3 carriers, 4 battleships, and 6 destroyers. i may try subs for screening. i'm completely unimpressed with nuclear subs. they seem to be less worthy than ironclads to do battle. not one of the seven i launched has won a battle against lone ironclads, destroyers, or battleships.

the flattops will have 8 stealth bombers and 4 stealth fighters for cap.

my plan is to float one or more of these fleets outside his bomber range. then pummel his coastal cities improvements with the stealth selectivity using it's greater range. i guess my question in all this is, am i dreaming here? i have just produced my first stealth bomber and shipped it to a war zone but haven't used it in attack yet either on a city or an enemy vessel. i was so disappointed in the nuclear subs. not at all what i expected. i'll probably explore this strategy anyway as each other civ has a juicy peninsula just begging to be cut off in a two pronged armor invasion. if i can successfully isolate each peninsula, that would account for about 25% of each civ's cities. it would also lead to a nice jumpoff point for the final land war in which i know i will prevail. i'd sure like to hurt them some before i try this.

 

[Psychlone]

My suggestion would be to build a small fleet to protect a transport- say, a couple of battleships, maybe a carrier, and a couple of destoyers. Load the transport with a settler, a worker, and 6 mech infantry. Make a beeline for a smallish gap on their coast where you can build a city, head there and make one. Rush build an airport in your new city and begin airlifting your tanks to the new continent, and start rebasing your bombers there to beat down any units they send toward you. If they're only using cavalry, those 6 mech infantry should almost guarantee you hold your beachhead unless they throw about 100 cavalry a turn at you, heh.

Also, in case you weren't aware of it, airlifting works like this: each city with an airport can airlift one unit (unit must be airlift-capable of course) to any other airport.

Using this technique, in just a few turns you can have a huge offensive force on their continent, and pretty much ignore their navies. Their naval bombardment is really little more than a nuisance, IMO. Hit their bombardment ships with bombers and they'll go away to repair. At the point you are in the game, loss of a few improvements shouldn't hurt you much until you get workers to remake them. Meanwhile, your armor will be running wild in their homeland. If peace is your goal, just raze a handful of cities from your beachhead, and you should get peace with concessions.

 

[Peteus]

One issue with your plan - Stealth "fighters" in the game are really mini-stealth bombers with recon capability. They are incapable of CAP! Jet fighters are what you want there. Recon could be a big deal though, if the path between you and the enemy's shore is really clogged with battleships.

It shouldn't be that tough though. Just concentrate your force, scout ahead as you sail with recon fighters, pick the safest route, and soften up any pickets in your way with bombers from your carriers.

I would suggest subs for finishing off warships you've crippled with your bombers, rather than attacking healthy ships by themselves. They are less vulnerable to counterattack if they can't get back to the big stack.

Oh, and if you are really planning on going to "full military production", consider a wartime economy! Not if you plan a long campaign though, as it hurts your culture production for some reason. If you're thinking surgical strike to make them sue for peace, use mobilization to build up quickly. It's great, in the right circumstance!

 

[Salope]

One thing i'm doing is trying to keep things interesting. i did consider an invasion force. i can't find any open squares on the other continent. and i know that there are hundreds of offensive troops laying in wait. well, i don't know know but i am expecting as much. the entire continent is rr'd so, other than the mountain trick with mech inf, i doubt i could survive the counterattack. At this stage, i'm at the point where i want to up the ante in the attrition strategy i have and get an edge at least. where i want to invade is the neck of a peninsula with a 5 tile spread. i figure this will take a three invasion gambit, one feint, and one landing force at the peninsula with a followup landing force to deal with the counterattacking units that will probably wipe out my first invasion force. this second force will probably be at least a 4 transport landing. hopefully, i'll be able to get six tanks on the shores on the other sice of the peninsula at the same time. i would prefer to try this after i've weakened his infrastructure with precision air strikes. i'll show them. blowing up my coastal railroads. sheesh.

good point on the stealth fighters. i really should read the manual closer (or just read it normally). so i'm guessing they're just weaker stealth bombers. i'll use standard fighters for cap to cover any rogue carriers about.

there is little chance of them suing for peace, i'm afraid. my style does not lend itself for diplomacy. i've wiped out 3 civs already in this game. and even when fighting them, i never got a peace offer that was anything more than peace for peace. and those were all initiated by me. they just plain don't like me on their planet and are willing to fight to the last. so i razed a few cities. big deal. they were of no use to me in their captured state.

i am surprised at how war has been ongoing, pretty much since the discovery of gunpowder. i avoided conflict early by giving in to demands. but once it started, there have been very few turns of full peace. needless to say, i am running under a communist regime.

thanks again for the info. tonight, i build. tomorrow, i'm going in.

 

[vulture]

If you want better terms for peace what you need to do is park 6 tanks outside his capital then talk to him. If you take the city first he will spit in your face .. but if he feels a big threat he will even give up small cities.

 

[Loopy]

My suggestion would be to keep on doing what you're doing but start using cruise missiles to finish the job. Bombard the battleships down to 2 health (can't bombard 1 health units), then send the cruise missile. More often than not, you'll sink their naval unit with the cruise missile. They're cheap to produce and with rail they're much, much faster than any naval unit.

 

[Salope]

i didn't know cruise missiles killed boats. that will give me something to do while i build my fleets. i have the ai pretty much trained to bring in it's big ships to bombard my shores, lambast them with arty or bombers, and try to sink them with my ships. but with cruise missiles able to do that, woohooo. they shall now pay. they will pay big.

btw, can i transport and launch cruisers from any ships? i'm at work and have no rulebook here. plus, i'm incredibly lazy and the index in the manual is very poor.

 

[Peteus]

You can transport Cruise Missles in transports (although loading them is a little different), but you cannot carry or launch them from any fighting ship. Which is kinda too bad! You can launch tactical nukes from nuclear subs though!

WRT peace, you don't have to accept what he offers you! Renegotiate! He says:
Peace for Peace

You counter with
Peace for Peace
+all his money
+4 cities
+2 luxuries
+any stray techs he might have lying about.

I find the AI is typically very motivated to close the deal on that peace treaty, after I've captured/razed a few cities and his counter-attacking units are all gone!

 

[BillChin]

Sea invasions are tough to pull off. I think a better plan was outlined for you, to get an airport on the other continent and start airlifting troops. The downside to this plan is that your airfield city may culture flip to the other players.

For establishing a beachhead, find a mountainous or hilly area and land like seven transports full of troops (like 50). You need a modest navy to screen for you but not that much, especially if you have absolute air superiority. Armies are especially good for establishing a beach head, but if you do not have them, infantry or any other high defense unit will do. I would concentrate my forces. Having two beach heads is not worth the minimal gain and dilutes your firepower. You might send a naval detachment elsewhere to annoy them with bombardment, but two land spearheads is not the way to go.

Use your naval bombardment and bombers to bombard their roads and they will have a hard time getting reinforcements to the area. Raze a couple of cities so you get an area where can build a city without fear of culture flip. Once you have a secure airfield, the end is near, especially with your tech and numbers advantage.

 

[Cruiser]

Originally posted by Psychlone
. . . Make a beeline for a smallish gap on their coast where you can build a city, head there and make one. Rush build an airport in your new city and begin airlifting your tanks to the new continent. . .Using this technique, in just a few turns you can have a huge offensive force on their continent, and pretty much ignore their navies. Their naval bombardment is really little more than a nuisance. . .

The logic in game turns isn't bad at all. But as for logic itself. . .
I've never heard of Main Battle Tanks being airlifted in any kind of suitable number to make any difference. Too heavy.

The "nuisance" role of navies is indeed a flaw in the game. For those of us who appreciate the reality of naval warfare the game is disappointing. All it seems to be to Sid is a shore-bombarding annoyance. I can barely recall any examples of warships in History spending their time bombarding irrigation and roads.