Naval Warfare

According to the ADM and HF values of the battleship abnd AEGIS cruiser, they should have the same defence from any air and missle attacks. The defence*hit points*firepower of a battleship is 96 while the same for a cruiser is 48 but you multiply that by 2 to get 96. Unless the game does something different than it should you don't need to stack battleships and AEGIS cruisers together.
BTW what does the "AEGIS" stand for?
 
How do you make a blokade ?

... I cant fortify. Is there any way to duplicate fortify ?
You cannot fortify ships. In a city, a ship may LOOK fortified when you use the city menu "fortify" command, but it is not really getting the benefit of fortification... the trench is for looks only. At sea, you won't even have any way to get the "fortified look", since you can't issue the command in the 1st place.


According to the ADM and HF values of the battleship abnd AEGIS cruiser, they should have the same defence from any air and missle attacks. The defence*hit points*firepower of a battleship is 96 while the same for a cruiser is 48 but you multiply that by 2 to get 96. Unless the game does something different than it should you don't need to stack battleships and AEGIS cruisers together.
Your general overview is a good "guide" for comparing certain aspects of fighting units, but it is not the way Civ II resolves the battle.

I don't have time for a full math example right now, but I will sum it up by saying that when I play full games on big maps, nothing beats my navy... and the lynchpin after flight is the vet AEGIS cruiser. I won't build a non-vet. Vets rule!!

Vet AI Cruise missles will take their toll on a vet AEGIS, and in a big pile, I will have up to 3 AEGIS, to make a solid "stepping stone" for my navy to transit. But if the AI is makng vet CMs, that should be giving you huge freight bonuses... and these will far outweigh vet air units, in most circumstances.

BTW, I use lots of freight, even in war... and vet AEGIS protects them all (in their transports). I usually try to get a 100 shield city to crank one out every turn, and stop off at the Shakespeare city to swap ownership to keep Democratic happiness (I prefer, by far, a Democracy to fight a big bloody war).

Lastly, I use a destroyer (Shake) to sweep for subs, and at least one Vet BB (Shake) in a transport pile. 5 or 6 freight worth 12,000 gold and 12,000 science is just too valuable not to make & use the right Democratic navy!!

BOTTOM LINE: Use a Vet AEGIS (or Two!), not a Vet BB. :)

PS, You should not find the "definition" of AEGIS anwhere... it is not an actual acronym! It is a clever trick, LOL. I'm Air Force, not Navy, so maybe a Navy expert can expand, but it was originally called Advanced Surface Missile System (ASMS). ASMS was renamed to "AEGIS" in 1969... the powers that be didn't like "ASMS Cruiser"... remember, the Navy likes to PRONOUNCE things (Like "COMSUBPAC")... the rest of us in the military just usually just use the alphabet soup (like "ACM" said A-C-M, not spoken "ackam", for Advanced Cruise Missile, one of my first 1980's development assignments). BTW, the name "Aegis" literally means "shield", and is named after the mythological shield of Zeus in Homer's "Iliad" (which is an ancient Greek book).

 
Originally posted by slothman
According to the ADM and HF values of the battleship abnd AEGIS cruiser, they should have the same defence from any air and missle attacks. The defence*hit points*firepower of a battleship is 96 while the same for a cruiser is 48 but you multiply that by 2 to get 96. Unless the game does something different than it should you don't need to stack battleships and AEGIS cruisers together.
Slothman,

you cannot simply multiply <I>defence*hit points*firepower</I>.

Many people used to think exactly the same thing, read http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001761.html starting my post that was posted January 29, 2001 12:33

Or see <A HREF="http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22856">Info: Combat (GL)</A> thread for the overall combat mechanics.
 
Thanks, Slow Thinker! BTW, do you know why it is that pages take sooooooo looooong to load at Polyton? I'd sure like to browse over there, but pages sometimes continue loading for over an hour!! A few days ago, I tried 3 links Smash provided, and left for the afternoon... when I came back, not one had finished. :( I've had 2 different ISP's, and the same slowness from both. I'm in Seattle (Washington State, in the Nowthwest).


Oh well. I'll copy that link.

Do you have a link for the guy at Polyton that figured out the reference civ stuff (AKA "key civ"). I wanted to post that to someone in another thread today, but could not even get the first Polyton page to load to find it, LOL. :)

Thanks!

 
Thanks for the great link, ST! ;) This is my first post over here at Civfanatics...

One thing I do not see mentioned in this thread is the fantastic strategy of racing thru the tech tree to Steam Engine. Build the Lighthouse along the way, and you will have veteran ironclads facing enemy caravels and pikemen! :lol: Use ironclads to empty enemy cities, sail in a caravel or two full of bad guys, et voila! Nobody is left with a coastal city from which to even launch a navy. Or use Sun Tzu's instead of the Lighthouse. Just find an enemy wimp, kill it for veteran status, and the seas are yours.

AEGIS cruisers are far and away the best units for defense against air attacks, even in cities.
 
That site is so slow a sloth could speed it up. Anyway the only thing I could get out of it is that AEGIS cruisers actually get a x5 defence against missles making them better them against missles than battleships. Unfortunitly there was no actual forumla that told the chance of 1 unit against another. It did mention computerized dice but was vague or gave different explanations on how they were used. What I basically want is how many of a certain unit will it take to defeat another. Eg, how many vet fanatics are needed to finish off a fortified, behind city walls, on desert, vet mech infantry.
P.S. I am in NY so it is probably them but I could be wrong.
 
Originally posted by starlifter
Thanks, Slow Thinker! ... Oh well. I'll copy that link.

Do you have a link for the guy at Polyton that figured out the reference civ stuff (AKA "key civ")... Thanks!
I think this is what you refer to...
The Key to Tech Gifting

And a closely related thread...
The Cost of Research Explained

Both are archived threads, that might be why they are slow. But not likely, that server is often bogged down and runs like molasses in february.

If the combat link does not work, here is an advance copy of the thread (v1.1) in Word document form:
 
...and the same combat document in rich text format...
 
<font size=1>Originally posted by starlifter </font>
BTW, do you know why it is that pages take sooooooo looooong to load at Polyton?
This is not so bad here. But I remember there is a possibility to turn on a light (and so faster) mode, but you may be forced to register if you want to use it.

<font size=1>Originally posted by slothman </font>
Unfortunitly there was no actual forumla that told the chance of 1 unit against another. It did mention computerized dice but was vague or gave different explanations on how they were used. What I basically want is how many of a certain unit will it take to defeat another. Eg, how many vet fanatics are needed to finish off a fortified, behind city walls, on desert, vet mech infantry.
Oh no, you can use a "bonus" to adjust the defense or attack factor of the stronger unit and then you may multiply it by HP and FP. See http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001761.html again: my post that was posted January 29, 2001 19:03

Your example:
vet fanatics has AF (attack factor)=4*1.5=6
vet mech infantry has DF (defense factor)=6*1.5*3(city walls)=27
(fortified status is ignored: superceded by city walls)

mech. infantry is stronger and so it gets a 27-6=21 bonus
mech. infantry defends and so it gets a 1/8 bonus
fanatics attack and so they get a 1/8 malus
(In practice you may ignore these 1/8, they are significant for weak units only.)

The adjusted AF=5+7/8=5.875
The adjusted DF=27+21+1/8=48.125

now we may multiply these numbers by FP and HP:
attack is equal to 5.875*2*1=11.75
defense is equal to 48.125*3*1=144.375

You need 144.375/11.75=12.29 fanatics in average.
 
Originally posted by SlowThinker
Sodak,
I realized just now that I seem to know <I>Land o' Lakes</I>. Where did I see it? ;)
Ha ha! I've been identified! I've come clean in my profile... :D
 
Thanks to Sodak and Slow Thinker!! I will keep looking in on the Polyton site once every so often to see when it is repaired (whatever is causing the slowness). It would be nice to be able to see what is going on over there! I would recommend 2 things to the owners over there:

1. Don't use MS bloat code software/OS. Use Linux.

2. Upgrade the server from an IBM 80286 12 MHz! Maybe even consider using an 50 MHz 80486, LOL!! Or if they have tons of money, like at least $25 USD, get a Pentium 90, hehe.

OK, OK, so my #2 suggestion is dogging them a bit. But really, server capacity must be matched to demand, if the slowness is a server limitation. ;)

 
I don't know why some have problems with Apolyton.I know starlifter would enjoy picking over the archives and the Great Library.It might be the forums.They use vb, but theirs is loaded with images.They have several options available including a "light" format that eliminates many of the images.They require cookies also..perhaps this causes a problem for the
"uncookied"

Anyways,here is a link to their main page.I'm curious if the main site is accessaible for those that can't seem to get thru to the different links I have seen,which are all links to the forum btw.
 
I completely agree with Sodak. Ironclads rule!

Why? Because of the time you get them. Often Steam Engine is discovered before Metallurgy. That means there are no Coastall Fortresses and in that time Pikemen often are the defenders.

In one MP game I played, I raced for Steam Engine, then started rush-building Ironclads, and could capture all enemy coastall cities.

And in other MP-games I played, Ironclads were also heavily used by all players.
 
u know that AI likes to keep units on the road out of cities(explorers riflemen etc.) so i always use them way to make my naval units veterans. altough it seems like your units need to get some damage before they are promoted to veterans. But like veteran cruiser before battle ships are quite killers.


How many times u stop and look how much gold u have and amount is 666, atleast it has happened to me like 20 times
 
Odin is using the same strategy as me...AEGIS against the AI are so important because the AI have an unlimited love for missles...
 
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