Navy in RoR

[Alcamar]

Currently i am playing Rise of Rome as the Romans and although it looks that i am establishing an empire I do have some problems. Do the galleys of the Carthagians and Macedonians have additonal capacities/attributes or HP's?
I have a very hard time defeating these ships I lose 7 out of 8 sea-battles and this seriously hampers my expansion. Btw, all my galleys are at least veteran. I managed to conquer Sicilly, Sardinia and Corsica but only because these island are within the 3 tiles reach of the roman galleys. Now I want to invade the Carthagian homeland but with the low succes of my navy and Africa being just to far away for a single turn transfer I do not want to risk my fleet and army. Carthage has around 10-20 galleys constantly sailing around Sicilly and Sardinia and I have loads of legionairs and 2 armies stationed on these islands without much practical use (besides getting rid of the pathetic Cartagian attempts to reconquer).
So what to do? Just build loads of ships and just go for it? First conquer and occupy spain and then use gibraltar as start point of my invasion?

 

[Dell19]

Typically I try to keep a fleet of twice as many ships as the enemy is likely to send against me and then hope that it will balance out in such a way that I will lose 4 ships to take their 4 ships. If you have Sicily then you should be able to island hop in such a way that your ships are rarely at risk of actually being attacked by minimising the time that units are actually on board a ship.

 

[socralynnek]

In this scenario all galleys have 4 as transport capacity, but AFAIK there are no other attributes (maybe +1 movement if carthage is seafaring)

 

[burleigh]

Catapults to knock 'em down to the red-line & then use your weedy galleys to knock 'em out & maybe boost experience

 

[Alcamar]

Thanks for the replies. I have decided to go for both strategies. I will build a bigger fleet and hope for the best and i will continue my advance through Spain.

Related to this does anybody know if it is possible to activate a catapult on board of a galley and use it in attack or defence? I am currently not in a position to test it myself.

 

[Pfeffersack]

The abilities of Carthagian galleys are really strange - many players have reportet this phenomenia and while I was playing also had a hardtime against them.Maybe it is just bad luck, but I think there is a reason: Carthago has a lot of galleys in this scneario and even builds more.As player you are faced with them and try to beat them with your on galleys.They both have the same stats, but the defender gets a 10% bonus.This may sound not much and you hardly notice it if there are only occasional fights between galleys.But in this conquest, it happens frequently.It may be a better strategy to pile up a lot of galleys and let Carthago attack them - so you have the advantage on your side.

I don't know about using catapults or generally artillery on transports, but I would be interesting to know.

 

[Dell19]

Ah I didn't realise there was a 10% defence bonus that would explain why the computer doesn't always attack my galleys and why when I attack the results are never what I expect.

 

[QuantumEleven]

I agree with Dell19 - once you have Sicily, you either get down and invade Carthage with only about 2 turns spent at sea. However, unless you have Legionary III's, it's going to be a tough fight. An alternative is to attack down near present-day Libya, where they're weaker (but you can still get there in about 3-4 turns at sea). The secret I found to getting my invasion force across in one piece is to have about half of my galleys act as scouts - send them ahead and on the flank of your stack of unit-carrying galleys, so they can spot enemy galleys before they encounter your unit carriers. Have your scouts engage them (or, even better, bombard - iirc, galleys can bombard in RoR, although my memory may be faulty) - either that, or let them engage you (to take advantage of the 10% defender bonus). Okay, you'll probably lose a lot of your scouts, but you'll redline or sink enough enemy galleys so that by the time they've chopped up your scout ring, you'll have made it to Africa, where your mighty Legions can do their stuff.

If you're really paranoid about sea combat, you can always go Spain - Gibraltar, unfortunately, I've found that it takes too long (your legions move too slowly), and by the time you reach Carthage, the game is almost over...

Something else you could try to counter the Carthaginian navy is to ally with Macedonia. They're essentially fighting a land war with Persia, but still build tons (and I mean tons) of galleys. They will then send these galleys around the tip of Italy and engage the Carthaginian fleet around Sicily - a great way of keeping the Carthaginians occupied while you sneak a force into North Africa...

 

[Alcamar]

Something else you could try to counter the Carthaginian navy is to ally with Macedonia. They're essentially fighting a land war with Persia, but still build tons (and I mean tons) of galleys. They will then send these galleys around the tip of Italy and engage the Carthaginian fleet around Sicily - a great way of keeping the Carthaginians occupied while you sneak a force into North Africa...

I have tried that as well, but after the 20 turns were finished they did not want to extend the treaty but instead they joined sides with Carthage . Anyway even when we were allies they did not put a great effort into their part of the job. I saw them sending some galleys but i never saw any fighting going on.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Another trick: Load your most important units onto Regular Galleys, and stack them with Vet ones; that way, your transports are usually save.

 

[Dell19]

Someone else told me that awhile ago and it sounds like a great ideea although I had always assumed that if I was attacked, my unit transports would be attacked last...

 

[Theoden]

Related to this does anybody know if it is possible to activate a catapult on board of a galley and use it in attack or defence? I am currently not in a position to test it myself.

I havent tried exactly with a catapult but with a unit in japanese conquests that had bombard. It couldn't bombard from within a ship even though it was amphibious. So I see no reason catapults should be able to.

 

[a4phantom]

I'm almost certain that siege engines in transports cannot bombard . . . think about how ridiculously powerful that would be, we would be seeing a lot of it.


What level are you playing at? I've played RoR at warlord and regent levels, and both times island hopping to Carthago and taking the city was pretty easy, it was holding all the conquered Carthagian cities against avenging seaborne raiders and elephants that was hard. Neither time did Carthagian fleets come out to challenge my ships, so what I suspect is that by focusing on Spain you gave them time to build up a fleet. I've lost every single galley I attacked Carthy ships with, but they have only attacked mine once (they won). If you are already deep into Spain and Carthago is guarded by a large and aggressive navy, I would recommend just continuing to Gibralter like you planned. This would actually be to your advantage, because you'll only have to push from one direction at a time, whereas if you start with Carthago you have to push East towards Egypt and West towards Gibralter, and then dig them out of Spain. Legions are strong enough that it's ok to divide your forces, but by going through Spain first you shouldn't have to.

Another option: if noone else has built the Great Lighthouse yet, four movement should take your galley from the nearest city to the coast of Carthago, where you can unload into the surrounding hills before your ships can come under attack.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I misread. I thought you'd said you were already going through Spain. If you do take that strategy, please post the results. I don't know how you'll get by the Celts though, since they don't seem sophisticated enough to offer ROP (although they don't mind Carthies passing through to attack you) and you probably don't want to mess with them until Carthage is dead and salted, because they have a ton of units and a very long border with you. Maybe the Carthy navy won't be strong around their easternmost Iberian cities.

The last time I played RoR the Goths and Celts both invaded my weak new northern cities, the Garrisons had no chance of holding against the 40 Celt and 20 or so Goth units. But instead of attacking or pillaging me they slaughtered eachother right outside the gates. Forty Goth and Celt units must have died in one turn when the SoD met.

 

[Dell19]

It should be possible to get a ROP by getting an embassy with them and it should be possible to get them in an alliance against Carthage which is my other usual tactic to get as many nations as possible to fight my main enemy.

 

[QuantumEleven]

I'm almost certain that siege engines in transports cannot bombard . . . think about how ridiculously powerful that would be, we would be seeing a lot of it.

They can't - I had this idea too a while back, and have tested it with various combinations of artillery unit / transports, and none of them could. I'll go out on a limb and say that this means they can't...

I don't know how you'll get by the Celts though, since they don't seem sophisticated enough to offer ROP (although they don't mind Carthies passing through to attack you) and you probably don't want to mess with them until Carthage is dead and salted, because they have a ton of units and a very long border with you. Maybe the Carthy navy won't be strong around their easternmost Iberian cities.

The last time I played RoR the Goths and Celts both invaded my weak new northern cities, the Garrisons had no chance of holding against the 40 Celt and 20 or so Goth units. But instead of attacking or pillaging me they slaughtered eachother right outside the gates. Forty Goth and Celt units must have died in one turn when the SoD met.

That sounds like the situation in my first try at RoR (Warlord level... don't laugh... ), I was driving my legions through Spain, when the Goths and Celts decided they didn't like me and sent SoD's after my northern cities. My garrisons didn't have much of a chance, and even my Legionnaire IIs fell after awhile. I abandoned the game when they took Rome (wonderful recreation of history though it was, except perhaps a little early)...

So, on my second attempt, I left Sardinia and Corsica alone (still took Sicily - no reason not to) and sent as many Legions as I could spare north. In the very early stages of the game, the barbarian tribes are incredibly weak - even your Legionnary Is can make mincemeat out of them. By the time I had performed a large amphibious landing in Libya and was pushing west (by now with the ultra-Legionnaire IIIs), I had conquered all of northern Europe, wiping out the Goths and leaving the Celts with one city they had managed to found in England. Ta-da - northern border secure! By the time I took Carthage, I had managed to get enough of my Gaul-conquering legions south to start attacking Spain, and managed to meet my Africa Corps somewhere near Morocco...

The only downside to this strategy is that it left Macedonia and Persia pretty much alone until the late stages of the game - luckily, by that point, my core cities were maxed out in improvements and population and were cranking out Legions. I eventually attacked Macedonia with about forty Legions, and won a domination victory after taking the westernmost part of Turkey from Persia - even had I not won by that point, Persia was in full retreat, their cavalry not being able to touch my invincible Legions...

EDIT: Oops, sorry, the topic seems to have started on naval strategy and here I am rambling on about other things... sorry!

 

[a4phantom]

Excellent strategy. Mine has always (well, both times) been to go after Carthage first because they are the locked enemy and try to keep peace with Macedonia and the Hordes until Carthage is gone. But this does allow the Celts to amass huge armies of weak but quick units that can overwelm even legions with their numerical superiority. I love it when Egypt declares war on me, because they have no ability to project power and after a few turns of phony war they usually offer some cash in return for peace, but I'm reluctant to really exploit Egypt because I don't want Persia to swallow them before I get around to them.

Dell19, of course you're right, how dumb am I? Don't answer that.

 

[Alcamar]

What level are you playing at? I've played RoR at warlord and regent levels, and both times island hopping to Carthago and taking the city was pretty easy, it was holding all the conquered Carthagian cities against avenging seaborne raiders and elephants that was hard. Neither time did Carthagian fleets come out to challenge my ships, so what I suspect is that by focusing on Spain you gave them time to build up a fleet. I've lost every single galley I attacked Carthy ships with, but they have only attacked mine once (they won). If you are already deep into Spain and Carthago is guarded by a large and aggressive navy, I would recommend just continuing to Gibralter like you planned. This would actually be to your advantage, because you'll only have to push from one direction at a time, whereas if you start with Carthago you have to push East towards Egypt and West towards Gibralter, and then dig them out of Spain. Legions are strong enough that it's ok to divide your forces, but by going through Spain first you shouldn't have to.

Another option: if noone else has built the Great Lighthouse yet, four movement should take your galley from the nearest city to the coast of Carthago, where you can unload into the surrounding hills before your ships can come under attack.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I misread. I thought you'd said you were already going through Spain. If you do take that strategy, please post the results. I don't know how you'll get by the Celts though, since they don't seem sophisticated enough to offer ROP (although they don't mind Carthies passing through to attack you) and you probably don't want to mess with them until Carthage is dead and salted, because they have a ton of units and a very long border with you. Maybe the Carthy navy won't be strong around their easternmost Iberian cities.

The last time I played RoR the Goths and Celts both invaded my weak new northern cities, the Garrisons had no chance of holding against the 40 Celt and 20 or so Goth units. But instead of attacking or pillaging me they slaughtered eachother right outside the gates. Forty Goth and Celt units must have died in one turn when the SoD met.

I am playing at warlord.
I dont think my focus on Spain provided the Carthaginans the time to built up their navy. I started conquering Sicilly and immediately focused on an attempt to cross to Africa. But from the beginning I noticed a huge Carthaginan fleet, so my focus on Spain was more or less out of need.

The other aspects mentioned: In the start of the game I had the Macedonians and the Persians as my allies against the Carthagians, but Macedonia joined sides with Carthage so I am fighting also on the Balkan and managed to conquer two cities.
The Celts are no problem what so ever, in the initial phase they also allied with Carthage but I have seen only 5 (at most) of their UU. After conquering three cities they offered 2 others in exchange for peace. And now 20 turns later, again they declared war so i am now finishing them off entirely.

I will now do the following: First, destroy the Celts. Second, get a favourable peace from the Macedonians (I don't want a war on 3 fronts yet)
Third, I will continue my progress through Spain, although the Carthagians are giving me a hard time overthere. And Fourth I am, as suggested by some of you building a large navy to use in an invasion of Africa.

In general my playstyle is not that offensive as needed for this scenario. I normally want to play safe by first establishing a productive homeland and a large army before waging war. Consequently, I am usually the one who is attacked and not the attacker. I only attack after wdestroying the attacking forces, but then i am ruthless and kill them all .
Anyway, at this point I have the largest population and territorium and my more builder type of playing is starting to pay off as I think I am now getting the momentum of my armies going.

 

[a4phantom]

"I dont think my focus on Spain provided the Carthaginans the time to built up their navy. I started conquering Sicilly and immediately focused on an attempt to cross to Africa. But from the beginning I noticed a huge Carthaginan fleet, so my focus on Spain was more or less out of need."

Yes, I misread your description and made some assumptions based on the fact that in my two rounds of RoR I've never seen a large or aggressive Carthy fleet. My mistake.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Well, all you have to do is make sure your galleys travel from city to city- never let them stay at sea, otherwise Carthage'll kill em off- if there's even a one-tile hole in their fleet, that's plenty to send in all your galleys and drop off all the legions you need to take Africa, you'll probably use your fleet, but you'll be able to capture Carthage. I prefered to attack Spain at the same time, as this means they can't move their capital Carthago Novo and start building up there.

 

[a4phantom]

Well, all you have to do is make sure your galleys travel from city to city- never let them stay at sea, otherwise Carthage'll kill em off- if there's even a one-tile hole in their fleet, that's plenty to send in all your galleys and drop off all the legions you need to take Africa, you'll probably use your fleet, but you'll be able to capture Carthage. I prefered to attack Spain at the same time, as this means they can't move their capital Carthago Novo and start building up there.

Unless I'm mistaken, there're four water spaces between the nearest city and Africa (near Carthago). So unless you build the Lighthouse first, you cannot move your army from port to beach in one turn.

You have, however, described the perfect strategy for conquering the British Isles in the Napoleon conquests.