[BTS] NC 191 Frederick of Germany

[elitetroops]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Frederick of Germany, whom we last played in NC CXXII we last played the Germans under Bismarck in NC CLXXV. The Germans start with Hunting and Mining.

• Traits: Frederick is Philosophical and Organized. 'nuff said.
  
• The UB: The Assembly Plant, a Factory that can turn 4 citizens into Engineer specialists instead of 2, and can be built 50% faster with access to Coal. In addition Frederick gets a 100% production bonus towards Factories from his ORG trait, giving him the cheapest Factories in the game.
  
  
  
  
• The UU: The Panzer, a Tank with +50% versus armored units; it can thus be quite powerful in the late game.
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Global Highlands, normal continents, small map, 6 AI. A small GH map has about as much land as a standard sized Fractal map. Techs are cheaper on small map though.

Spoiler map edits :

Made sure that we have oil for UU, obviously.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 191 Frederick Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[elitetroops]

Reserved.

 

[dutchfire]

What's that mapscript like? Several continents, lots of hills?

 

[elitetroops]

Regarding mapscript:

Spoiler :

With "normal continents" setting, it behaves pretty close to fractal when it comes to landmasses. It can produce several continents, or one big pangaea for all civs, or put some civ in isolation while all other are on the same landmass and so on. There is quite a lot of hills and peaks. The amount and formation of peaks depend on settings. This map uses "thin peaks", which has the least peaks.

With all the hills, it does offer some interesting alternative strategies. For example, if you are heading for space with a large empire, Environmentalism and windmill-spam can be surprisingly effective. SP is less effective on this mapscript, as there are fewer flat tiles for workshops.

 

[Pedro78]

I'd seriously consider settling on the PH 1NW of the lake, even though it wastes two turns - faster start, blocks more land, better against barbs, can still get the possible seafood with a city to the south. Can hopefully find some kind of commerce up there aswell (river or resource) as this will be the major bottleneck with this start.

Made sure that we have oil for UU, obviously.

Yeah the lack of oil early on makes most maps unplayable with the Germans

I might play this. Don't like hills but can certainly be fun -- very strong leader will make up for the usually crappy land given by this mapscript.

 

[Fippy]

even though it wastes two turns

That mindset should just leave, forum wide
(you are right ofc about moving there, and faster start..just looking at the wording of that part).

It's not wasting 2 turns, it's gaining one (worker) and Palace commerce is made up over time as well.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm considering Monarch - Marathon - Always War (perhaps with Aggressive AI and/or no tech trading). Perhaps going to Emperor instead of Monarch, but that could be too difficult for me.

Spoiler :

Assuming more than 1 continent, keeping up the tech pace locally will be important, as well as getting enough happiness during all the whipping. Long term plan: conquer continent in medieval era, establish a good tech base and then invade later. Depending on the progress, it might be worth it to get to panzers, that would be a nice twist.

The green hills here will help getting some key wonders. I like the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse, if it looks like we have enough coast. Pyramids is also attractive. In principle, the PH looks like a decent place to settle, but that loses the option of building water wonders in the capital.

Starting techs are good for AW, but here it is a bit annoying that we need other worker techs first. I am considering building a warrior first to prevent a quick loss, and teching Bronze Working -> Agriculture -> Animal Husbandry. Then depending on copper/horse, might have to do archery.

Philosophical makes getting Great People a lot easier and Organized helps with the upkeep.

 

[Pedro78]

That mindset should just leave, forum wide
(you are right ofc about moving there, and faster start..just looking at the wording of that part).

You like to be picky on the words eh? Then Iet me be picky aswell --

It's not wasting 2 turns, it's gaining one (worker)

Your worker will have to move in the forest hill before improving the corn, so you're not gaining any worker turns

 

[elitetroops]

Yeah the lack of oil early on makes most maps unplayable with the Germans

Long before I found these forums, back when I could barely beat noble, whenever I started a new map I would always check in world builder that there was oil nearby and rush to settle it early, because what could be more annoying than to play a map into the modern ages only to find that the map was unbeatable from the start due to lack of oil...

 

[Fippy]

Not about those details, Pedro
(and not aiming to be picky on your wording in general)

I did write that a bit provocating cos i cannot see it anymore, it's used all the time when moving settlers.
No turns are wasted if you reach better spots, opposite would be true.

Would it be better here? Depends on scouting, cows also go missing for your cap.
But still learning players should be aware of the "wasted" turns in question, and how they rarely even exist.
Just one of those wordings that i found annoying for years now.

 

[elmurcis]

Yay, NC game... where you can do whatever you like and still have same map
So I took my special settings: NTT Deity Mara without Barbs (yeah, I know... shame on me about that ) will see how it goes

Spoiler :

Always move scout 1st to tiles that could be strong

Spoiler :

That can completely change opening or maybe not.. who knows?!

Spoiler :

This can spoil some idea about some wonders

Spoiler :

Wonder race is fast... Somebody built SH+GW before 2300 BC, and somebody else built Pyramids (in city with Oracle and ToA) with Great Engineer!!!! at 1950 BC

Spoiler :

But I got GLH at 1840 BC (was afraid that GEngineer could finish that). And did some crazy move same time... spoiler thing next -

Spoiler :

Archer-rush Budism Nappy and he is dead now (at 1780 BC)

 

[Pedro78]

I'm just kidding, I get your point, Fippy. Moving away from the cows is a bit annoying but you'll grab them fairly soon anyway (settle on the river next to the cows or something). Can be a hell of a second city (power tile + optimized worker turns). I don't see any particularly good move with the warrior on T0 - anything he reveals would be to the north, which wouldn't change my settling decision (and it's only hills/forests there so it won't reveal a bunch of desert or whatever)

So I took my special settings: NTT Deity Mara without Barbs (yeah, I know... shame on me about that ) will see how it goes

IMO this probably isn't harder than Stan/Norm IMM difficulty. Don't forget to give barbs their starting techs for deity

 

[elmurcis]

IMO this probably isn't harder than Stan/Norm IMM difficulty. Don't forget to give barbs their starting techs for deity

I don't care if thats not real Deity - I play for fun with satisfaction, I ride bicycle for max RPM and "body-profit"

I don't see any particularly good move with the warrior on T0

You start with Hunting but got Warrior? Did you WB him? (joke, joke)

 

[Pedro78]

@elmurcis There is no such thing as "real" deity IMO -- deity can be very hard and can be very easy. The settings you're playing on make a completely different game, it's not only about difficulty, and can certainly be fun (I'm just too lazy to play marathon games, everything's so much slower)

Oh and yeah that's a scout right, completely forgot about that. Doesn't change much on T0 though as the interesting directions are all forested/hilled

 

[Wrathful]

Immortal NHNE Normal speed to T50:

Spoiler To T50 :

Start looked a lot better than my Alex game.

Thought a bit about the settling decision.
Since this tile has fresh water, there is a lake 1NW of it (not coast):

Decided to send the scout to that tile. Sending him north won't reveal very much because of the hills and forests.

Nothing of interest was revealed:

Still want to settle on the PH.

T2: Settled on the PH. Production set to worker.

Will set research to Agriculture on T5.

T4: Finding some good land here...

T5: Met Napoleon. Also found more gold and ivory.

T8: Oh boy, look at this!

Found my second city spot.

T11: Agriculture finished. Research set to Bronze Working.

T14: Worker finished. Will farm corn, then mine pigs, then chop.

T15: Hinduism founded before Buddhism. Odd.

T25: Capital grew to size 3. Starting on a settler. Will be assisted by a chop.

T26: BW done. No copper spotted. Research set to Animal Husbandry.

T32: Settler finished. Sending him to double-gold + cow spot.
I have met no one else yet. Napoleon is putting most/all of his spypoints on me. Could be semi-isolated with him. Astro becomes a priority. Hmm, sounds familiar...

T34: Hamburg settled. Will start building a worker. Current worker improves gold, then cows, then pastures pig I think.

T38: AH done. Research set to The Wheel.
Found Napoleon's borders:

T44: Produced another settler in the capital. My worker is pasturing the pigs. When that is done the second city can take the corn and grow to size 2.

Wheel finished. Going for Pottery next.

T47: Founded my 3rd city.

I accidentally played to T51. Whoops.
Screenshot of the current situation:

Capital will build another settler next. Worker being produced there will chop it.
Those two workers I have right now will road to Munich, pasture sheep, and start cottaging.
Will probably head for Writing next. I'll road into Napoleon and open borders with him for trade routes.

Long term plans: Elepult Napoleon? Head for Astronomy?

Will need to explore the west. Barbarians could cause problems. I have some fogbusters in place.

 

[elmurcis]

Doesn't change much on T0 though as the interesting directions are all forested/hilled

There was one more way to go

Spoiler :

that.. turned out to be best move here

Spoiler :

And now at 490 AD (some important bulb done ) might say that here NTT actually made game more difficult

Spoiler :

If can deal with... somebody... and settle right spot (reading coast-line in any game can make things really different)... crazy guy will do the rest

Really sorry about spoiler thing

 

[elitetroops]

@elmurcis

Spoiler :

Please do not reveal results of scouting or give any hints about it outside of spoilers.

 

[Fippy]

If somebody is looking for spoilers, they will find them..
if not, no harm in posting stuff like elmurcis does.

But NC was always special.
I know that if i plan playing games, i will not read any posts ahead.
Let's take this easy guys, these games play no role anyways.
No locked assets, no reloads banned and so on.

 

[SittinDown]

That mindset should just leave, forum wide

Guilty. I often don't consider settler moves that are +1 turn away.

 

[dutchfire]

@Wrathful:

Spoiler :

I put Munich 1S. Is a plains hill and grabs a second gold. Plains sheep is not so much better than floodplain anyway. I also put Hamburg 1E on the plains hill, but that's because I settled in place and was doing quite a different game (Always War, low level). Has the advantage that it doesn't kill the grassland, which is rare here. For quite some time, I had this city doing 2x grassland farm + 2x plains hill gold mine.