NC XXXI: Charlemagne

[harry_flashman]

I might be late, but i dont care. Im learning Charlemagne on emperor so I may as well give this one a shot. my first game on the forum so hopefully i dont end up.

Emperor/Epic up to 70AD

Spoiler :

Right. My last Charlie game was something of a disaster. stuck on a lonely island, attempting some machiavelian machinations largely unsucessfully. This time Charlie goes to war!

Im hoping for an aggressive neighbour, so I can build the great wall and get some great generals @ 400%

The begining of the new empire is largely lost in the mists of time as I forgot to turn on the log, but it went something like, settle in place. Then a 2x worker build as I got Animal husbandary > mining > archer. An unusual start for me, 2 workers. I wanted to wait to get archery before building units, as who should turn up but MONTY!

Brilliant! I immediately start looking for hills to build cities on. Then Mansa shows up in the north. perfect neighbours.

My early dotmaps look like this

and this

I build a settler while teching BW for the purple incense city near mansa - but he beats me to it. I settle for a spot S/W of the mountain to grab stone and the copper.

Masonry and The Wheel come next, then in 2100BC the GW is chopped out.

Charlie adopts slavery, and techs pottery while mansa founds Judaism. Then another settler tries to grab the spot in the south by the incense. Beaten to it again, this time by monty. CONFOUND IT! all this despite imperial. No matter. Vienna is founded on a hill, so monty can crash his jags into my walls.

Nuremburg comes next. Founded on the banks of the mighty rhine, on a hill, near some copper. its one of those unassuming early game production powerhouses. I set it to building axemen, which i use to take a barb city, Cheyenne, which has appeared by the jungle gems. Thats my early empire done. The dotmaps are in the bin, but one production, 2 commerce and a decent capital make me happy especially since mansa is trapped in a corner. decide since ive got marble to go for the GL and tech Aesthetics after writing, agg and pottery.

Ive got plenty of production, little to build and a nasty neighbour, so barracks & walls go up in all towns and Aachen chops the Statue of Zeus.

Judaism spreads to Monty and me, we both adopt and now we're one big happy family. for the time being.

Aesthetics is swapped for Iron Working from Mansa, I get poly and lit, and start to build the GL.

A great spy pops and he's settled in aachen. 12 esp is HUGE early game. Monty builds the pyramids, the AP is BIDL and in the capital.

after a bit of chopping:

its about time monty DoW'd someone isn't it?

 

[harry_flashman]

OK got myself a cup of tea and a profiteroll. This time all the way to the present @ 715AD

Spoiler :

The end of days is approaching! The forces of Gog and Magog are rising in the West. The Roman Empire reborn under a christian saxon king is all that stands between the world and the antichrist!

Sure enough Montys getting tasty. However he goes for Mansa instead of Charlie. I decide to wait in the wings until Mansa asks me to go to war. dont know why. I should have probably jumped right in, but i figured id get a diplo bonus from Mansa.

Most of you probably went straight for the rush anyway (haven't read any spoilers yet). Why so cautious Sir Harry I hear you ask. Well, Harrys sage advice was to use the great wall to pop some generals, rather than rushing in breaches around my ankles, so I played the waiting game. Besides I wanted to trap Mansa at the top of the continent, and not waste the fast settlers. REX then war is the Charlemagne way.

Back to matters in hand. I tech Code of Laws VERY SLOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY. built another couple of cities by the coast to get fish and horses, and iron when those barbs in the south bugger off. My Great spy boosted ESP allows me to see exactly whats going on in the war - nothing much. I'm waiting for Monty to send his SoD into mansa's lands so i can nick tenochtitlian and am umming and ahhing about sending my 10 or so axemen in. Montys on a hill and has around 5 defenders - might be tricky - besides i'd rather he came to me with the big wall an all.

trade CoL to Mansa for construction. CATAPULTS. whip out a couple, and march them towards my SoD 3 long turns away. The pyramids will be mine by christmas!

then they declare peace. DAMN THEIR EYES! all that prevaricating has cost me. Still Monty will kick off again soon. In the meanwhile I concentrate on getting out Rats. My science is poor! I need to fight someone! my armys maintenance is costing 20gpt!

I finish the NE in Aachen and out pops a scientist. bulb Alpha, as Mansa is way ahead in techs and i need to see what monty has. Trade aesthetics for Sailing + Meditation, then Code of laws for Calendar. Those gems will help my science. As will an academy from my 2nd scientist and some cottages in Aachen.

Finally 685AD Monty Declares on me. Charlie grabs his holy lance and sits tight in Vienna. Heres what Im up against.

A motley crew Im sure you'll agree. They all end up as chicken feed and at the end of play Im left with a great general.

My troops:

His troops (whats left of them)

What to do. I could wait for another attack. we're still fairly even in forces and Ill get more great generals in my own territory. I think Ive done enough procrastinating though.

And the great general? Either super medic or settle are my usual first choices. This time though Im thinking spreading the promos between 3 or 4 axemen. I'll get plenty of them.

Finally the southern continent:

My stack (could have sworn i had another cat!)

My cap

and techs

I figure Im doing ok. Mansa is shooting off techwise. Not surprising; financial, GLH and a shrine. You cant win anything with 4 cities though. I just hope when i find the other continent they're not all on infantry while im building trebs!

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

harry

Spoiler :

Two things:
1-I wouldn't spread the xp around axes. Even highly promoted they still die a lot.

2-Don't take MM as a voluntary vassal. It will force you to keep revolting his cities until the end and we all know you have better uses for your EPs. (I know you didn't mention it, but it almost cost me my game here).

 

[harry_flashman]

Round 3

800 or so AD to 1300 or so AD

Spoiler :

In Which Monty gets whats coming to him

The general goes on a chariot SuperMedic. A few more city raider IIIs would be nice but a supermedic is for life, not just for smacking down monty.

860AD My SoD takes Tenochtitlan, Monty is menacing Nuremburg, and would be able to offer a strong counter so I take peace and horseback riding and the chance to build some more cats. Aachen makes a start on the MoM. Ive got the NE in there, so want some wonders to generate GPs.
Casanova the great spy is also born in Aachen and Scotland Yard goes in the capital.

870 Mansa builds the Parthenon

900AD and Charlie discovers CS, and immediately reverts to Bureau, OR and Rep - Tenoch had the pyramids. Picks my science up off the floor, and I tech towards currency for the trade routes.
Taoism FIDL

950AD Nuremburg whips out the HE and builds some elephants.

980AD Aachen builds the MoM. Its a mixed wonder powered GP farm, so any none scientists will go on a GA.

1060AD Monty declares on Mansa. I'll get in there a bit quicker this time.

1090AD Monty declares on me anyway. this boy is mental. 90 years too late to be the coming of the antichrist, and besides we share the same religion, he should take a few turns to shift, but shouldn't be a problem.

1140AD Tlatlecho falls to charlie.

this will give me spices and a nice commerce city.

1150AD Calixtlahuaca falls to Charlie.

I'll need reinforcements to capture the capital. A poor part of my game - my wars always take too long as im forever sending catapults to where the fighting has already finished. Dont know why i took calix first. ill imagine there was some reason or other behind it.

1190AD Charlie captures Texcoco. no photos, as the action was a bit desperate here, and the war correspondants were too scared so stayed in calex. No sign of Mansa's troops either. after taking one city they're not doing much.

1250AD Charlie captures Tlaxcala.

1280AD Engineering comes in and we start on Feudalism. Aachen starts on Notre Dame.

1290AD I steal paper from Mansa! The benefit of having an early Great Spy and Scotland Yard. I can steal a tech and still have enough esp to revolt his cities and have visuals on his whole empire.

1300AD its a bit of a scrap, but with help from Mansa, Charlie takes Xochicalco. Feudalism comes in, and I start on Edu, to go for Lib, a GS can bulb the rest of it and i switch to Guilds.

1320AD Notre Dame BIDL. Dammit! I was 1 turn away and could have whipped for 2 pop. I was relucatant to do that as my bureau cap needs people working those cottages.

1325AD Montys last city falls and Tlacopan is razed.

A fairly decent war. A bit too long probably, but Mansa was blocked out from taking more than one of Montys cities, though he has taken barb cities to my west and south which will be annoying. I've now got spices and lots of marble, and my happy cap is 20. Aachen has grown to 14 and is working those cottages and the wonders are pumping out GPs. Its my GP farm, Bureau capital and Espionage city. All my eggs are in one basket - Montys lands aren't that great. The main prize being:

not all that great. 2 fairly decent production cities (Im now no1.) and a commerce city. As you can see I've now Romanised the heathens and renamed their cities. those aztec names are all too similar and hard to spell.

Heres the HRE as it stands, a production heavy land, plenty of happys and crossed by the huge waterways of the rhine and the danube.

Charlie's eyes turn northwards towards the verdant lands of Mali, thats the real prize. Post war another GP pops and we go into a 15 turn golden age, which we use to change to Mercantilism - may as well as we have no-one significant to trade with. Our science is ok and we're a touch down on power from Mansa. Teching goes down the banking line to boost the economy. The empire builds infrastructure in the old Aztec lands and Units and Banks in the old HRE. UoS is built in Nuremburg.

1330AD Silly man!

have to do some reading on this bloke as Im not sure how to play it. He doesn't like me much, and wont trade - though i could flip into HR in a golden age as it might get me to cautious. will he trade at cautious? A popup shows Mansa as tech leader which is a relief, a mystery civ 2nd - obviously they popped lib, then silly man and myself.
look at all his blummin cities though still ill have that many once i kill mansa.

1350 lib goes! dammit. I haven't even got philo or edu yet.

seems a good time to stop. My forces are massing on the northern borders. War is the only option as there are 3 cities of his I really want to get my hands on, and his culture is pushing me. I want to attack before Astro in case he vassals to someone. My plan is to take the holy city of Djenne.

that'll push my science slider up a notch. Charlemagne also requires the blessing of the grand Rabbi to be fully ordained as emperor of the Jews. Then Ill either sue for peace and a couple of techs, or carry on to Timbuctoo

GP farm ahoy.

heres Mansa's little enclave.

Kumbe Salah also has the Great Lighthouse, which makes a push to astro and free markets a poss.

And finally the Greatest City in The World, Aachen

It really is a jack of all trades this one. Its pushing out GPs fairly sharpish and is producing nearly all my science and espionage. Just putting a bank in there let me push up the slider a notch.

I think im doing ok. Late game I will look to run corps, as those rat houses kill maintenance. Domination looks a favourable option. bit worried about those damn Saracens though.

 

[harry_flashman]

late 1300's upto 1600AD

Spoiler :

preparations begin for the war with MM. Mainly units are being built. I dont mind running the war at tech parity but I want an army bigger than his. often ill fight wars in 2 stages. The first is often opportunistic, depending on the diplo and tech situation. I will aim to get 1 to 3 cities, and nobble the AI's research production. Then sue for peace and techs, before finishing them off.

In this case taking Djenne will kill mansa. Its raking in 50gpt and funding his economy. I aim to take that then stop.

1445AD Printing Press comes in, and I start on finishing education. Contact is also made with shaka to my immediate east.

1455AD War is declared on my previous bestest friend mansa. ah well. My aim is to take Djenne and his Aztec possession and then see where we are. the techs from a ceasefire would be nice, but i dont want him capitulating to an AI with Astro. we'll se how it goes.

1470AD - Djenne falls. I meet Darius.

1490AD - I capture Teotihuacan. A Ceasefire won't offer enough so I decide to press on my advantage. Phase 2 is to capture Timbuktu then split up to get Gao and TGL at Kumbeh Salah. Phase 3 will be to Capture his barb cities to my South and West. Theres a bit of skirmishing in my borderlands but my cities arent threatened. I get Edu and have teched Gunpowder. Start building muskets and tenatively switch a few of my cities awayfrom units to Uni's. One in Aachen will be very nice. Meet Hatty and trade her Gunpowder for Philo and Drama.

1500AD Gunpowder to Darius for Theology and Music. I stay in OR rather than Theo as Im building Unis and have the measure of MM now.

1520AD capture Timbuktoo.

1530AD Ive teched replaceable parts. Lets tech astro to see if I can get trade routes. Ill be in possession of TGL soon. It has 2 optimum periods, early game the extra trade routes are huge, then later after Astro opens up intercontinental trade routes and Customs Houses are available. Hopefully Ill be able to get the later benefits of it, though civs going into Merc is a problem.

1540AD - I capture Gao. Im using spies BTW. revolt the city and then send in the siege units. Ive still got a massive lead in EP, though am now concentrating my points on those overseas. got plenty to burn on revolts thanks to the great spy/scotland yard.

1550AD - Kumbeh Salah falls. My units trek to the South and West to mop up his last cities. Id rather have the continent to myself than have a weedy vassal, the only danger is that he vassals to someone else.

1570AD - I get astro and move to rifles. Theres a deserted island to my north, it would be useful for Sushi. Colonisation is expensive though, and I may go cereal mills.

1580AD - A great scientist pops. I can burn him and an artist for a GA, which will be 15 turns as Ive got the MoM. Im saving it though till Oxford comes in.

1595 - Mansa is no more! I take his barb cities. keep a couple, raze one, resettle the other. The same turn i whip out Oxford and go into a golden age. Judaism is united and Timbuktu is renamed New Rome. I realise my history is a bit skew-wiff at the moment, but i didnt get theology or whatever it is pops christianity...anyway we'll have chief rabbis instead of Popes.

So where do i go now? in terms of victories have i got enough to sit tight and take space race? Im protective and surrounded by ocean. build a navy and im untouchable.
I dont think i have quite enough gpt though.

screenshot hides im #1 in gpt (what does that mean anyway - does it factor in librarys and universitys or is it raw yield)? and #1 in production. I am in a golden age though.

heres aachen post oxford. Just been whipped so ill grow it to work those cottages.

and heres djenne my 2nd city. Do i delay corps and wall street to avoid obsoleting TGL? Everyone is in mercantism at the minute and its not packing a punch.

Long term plans are to run corps and free market over state property. The rat houses swing it in the corps favour. Im thinking creative constructions/cerial mills ather than the usual sushi mining though as I happen to have more of those resources, The culture will come in handy for a dom win and corn etc is not as vulnerable as seafood to being pillaged. I could even build civilised jewellers as my gp farm pops out a Great Artist every now and then.

An ironworks city can go for the Great Engineer. where do i put it though? numemburg? river and grassland and hills - is it a waste of the HE though? timbuktu is a second option, not a great IW but will let me run specialists. other choices in the aztec lands.
Im planning on farming timbuktu anyway. it will be able to run a staggering amount of specialists.

Im swayed towards another war though. but who? Diplo/Military as follows

My units are highly promoted. Does this count to my power rating? No use having City Raider IIIs sitting at home anyawys.

I think that means shaka has no rifling. Hatty and Darius dont have either - but they like me.
well kind of.
they dont hate me.

going into free religion will help my international relations. I could trade Replaceable parts for lib.
Shaka is wheeorn, but doesnt have astro. Maybes he will attack darius, whose science i would like to see knocked a bit. I need to build my navy up anyway. I imagine i have the most experienced army in the game, though it is the smallest. Saladin could be a worry. I think its of more concern who i decide to attack. Im leaning towards Shaka. There is a chokepoint which would cut off 3 cities and threaten his capital. Then on to Darius and a domination or UN victory.

Tech race is quite slow i think, and ive been concentrating on war.

If anyone is still reading Sir Harry welcomes advice and feedback.

 

[harry_flashman]

a quick update to 1842

Spoiler :

When I left off last time i was pondering on a few things. mainly who to go to war with.
The usual is do I go for the Big Bear, someone who poses the biggest threat to me with the biggest or most advanced army, or do i go for the little tiddler for a bit of easy land.

In this case the decision was made by convenience, shaka is close, and id rather go marauding through his big fat continent than saladins horrible snaky one.

So anyway I teched rifling while building a bunch of CRIII macemen, then did a mass upgrade. In the meantime Shaka declared on Darius, which was all well and good as it would keep him tied up at the other end of the continent. More tied up than i ever would realise actually.

Darius asked me to join the war so i gladly obliged. an expeditionary force was placed on a hill for shaka to throw knights and cannons at. ( his teching was funny, he went for steel, but didnt get anywhere near military trad or riflng.)

Went through him like wildfire.

down to one city that he'd taken off Darius (who had sued for peace long ago) I was just about to finish him when i noticed...

flamin nora! he must have had over half his army trapped in there! The moral of this story being when suing for peace always move your SoD out of any cities surrounded by enemy culture. decided to leave that one for later and start building.

Wall Street went up. I usually prefer to farm Wall Street, but my shines were in a heavily cottaged city and i couldnt bare to knock down those towns.

Ironworks went here. There were probably a couple of places that would give more hammers, but I wanted specialists to get a corp. No such luck yet. Got a bloody artist.

In the Capital

Im still running Mercantilism, at least until i get a corp, and Rep. decided to close borders with everyone as they had started going free market and i didnt want them getting my trade routes. daft as I had to open again a few turns later to get at Shaka.
also...

another picture of my military city.

I love this city
its pretty much pumping out CRIII + a.n. other promotion tanks every turn. Ill probably post yet another picture of it when i finally get around to biology.

anyhow all those tanks got a bit of target practice. took me 2 turns wiping out all 50 or so of shakas army, but finally...

BLAM!!!!!!

KAPOW!!!!!! Shaka is no more. All thats left to do is an attack on Darius. The games pretty much won, though that doesnt mean he'll not be a tough nut to crack. He's a tech or 2 behind me but focussing on military so his army is advanced as mine. I was hoping to be able to have free reign of the air, but he's already got a good fighter defence. My plan is 1 stack to wipe out his annoying border cities, then onto the capital, and another to take the southern cities. Ill also land a stack on the other side of his continent to stretch his armys. For few turns though Ill build more miltary. 1/3 more production and 1/4 more GPT than him.

 

[Amao]

Harry, could you put the screenshots inside spoiler?

 

[Tobiyogi]

IMM, NHNE, no tech brokering.
1500 AD, vassalled my continent, and with Astro/Steel and well promoted Landsknechts + Curassiers ready to take on the next continent. Economy is very solid, Oxford almost built, Wall Street will follow soon, and I own 80% of the wonders in the game.

Spoiler :

Suleiman has 25 cities but no single wonder. I wonder if he is stuck in the tech-trap (because I sold him CoL 20 turns ago) or if he is far advanced beyond SM because he can obviously already tech Electricity.

Military speaking, an extremly strong game with only few unit losses and pretty straight city conquests. I begin to understand why I HATE to fight against Charlemagne because even though he looks weak at first glance (starting techs and traits), he is the master of promoted units that have an answer to everything. His stacks are, when they are mixed, almost untouchable. With protective Archers, he tends to be in Vassalage, settles his GG's, brings versatile Landsknechts and gets quickly CR III trebs. Against siege damage you can promote up the drill line or make Combat 1/ charge LK. Wouldn't even need mounted units, but I went for MT anyway, so I added Currassiers to my stacks, but let the trebs attack first. Will post an update about my domination date about which I am quite confident. So that's my praise on Charlemagne even though the interest about such an old NC game will be rather low

 

[Tobiyogi]

IMM, NHNE, domination in 1967.
If the last guy is too big, it is pure craziness to fight him down. I don't like that. He had 35 cities before I declared the first time. First DOW was only to destroy his vassal, because they had the last interesting wonders I didn't have yet.
Problem with someone at 35 cities is: he may not be very advanced, but it is still enough to harrass you with hundreds of infantries and bombers. My game goes completely haywire at that point, I just click and kill, no matter how the odds are. All the good economy and all the planning goes to hell at that point.
Charly is one of my favorite leaders. The UB helped me to manage 40 cities and more. When I was at 100% commerce, I earned 1500 gold per turn. I could research stuff like Robotics in 4 turns. And not to mention all the promoted guys. I had Pentagon, 1 city with 6 settled GG's, 1 heroic epic spot with 3 GG (bad planning) and another spot with Ironworks etc.... Mechanized Infantry with 17XP points every 2. turn.
In the end, it is all clicking and surviving. I prefer other stages of the game to be honest. Will still post the screenshot from my most extreme military spot, where the cavalry gets 19 XP without Vassalage / Theocracy.