NCSG1-Suryavarman II!

Cities shouldn't flip back to JC, I don't think conquered cities can flip? Can they? But the revolts are super annoying, Rome is already on its 2nd revolt :sad:. We have about 5 or 6 troops in each of the 2 roman cities on JC's border two trebs on their way, currently in Ravenna, and about 5 troops in the border city with suli. More troops are in production. Another thought... If we want to wipe out JC completely we'll need a galley or two to get to his annoying island city.

Peace with suli is definatley a priority, probably be able to get peace in a couple more turns (fingerscrossed) as soon as he comes out of "refuses to talk".
 
Cities shouldn't flip back to JC, I don't think conquered cities can flip? Can they? But the revolts are super annoying, Rome is already on its 2nd revolt :sad:.

I believe they can flip back, unless it was checked off before we started the game that "Conquered Cities Can't Culturally Revolt" or something to that extent. I guess it was checked off though, because I thought it was 2 revolts to flip.
 
Hello!

Some interesting turns while I was away! I'm glad It wasn't me who had the AP rear its head on!

Need to dedicate a city to missionary spam ASAP to avoid this kind of war in the future.

Wat might be a good Wall Street city with its high food and lots of river tiles.
 
Just a little reminder of the roster :

1. Krick19
2. Groogaroo - gone into hiding
3. Schwartz > UP!
4. S.ilver - on deck.
5. Rex rgis of Ter
6. Grandad
7. Bleys

No sign of Schwartz yet, do we wait a bit longer? :confused:
 
If he's disappeared, I can play it now (otherwise, not till Friday).
 
Hope you did well on the exam schwartz. Good luck with the turns.
 
We're not at an even turn number, so I'll play 9 and even it out.

Inherited Turn:

Fire Spy at A. Wat; set him to work the workshop for some hammers.

Fire merchant at A. Thom and run another scientist. Move a citizen from plains farm to grassland cottage.

Fire spy at Rome, run another artist.

Move Jumbo at Mediolanum towards Rome.

Pull slider to 30% science for +31 GPT

We have some workers farming a wheat tile that's not in any city's fat cross, and we already have a wheat hooked up.

302:
Amsterdam: Treb -> Mace
Hague: Mace -> Mace

I starve Antium a bit to run 3 artists for culture.
And some massive :smoke::
I move a worker near Ottoman borders without an escort. Good bye

303:
PP in, start Replaceable Parts towards Rifling.

I hope this is not too huge a decision to be making at this point.. But I declare on JC. He's weak, our cities keep revolting and the time is never going to be better.

Move stacks towards JC.

304:
Sulei is ready to talk!
I take his offer, 15 gold, for peace. We need friends for now. I sign OB with him immediately to start collecting positive diplo.

NCSG101.jpg


JC's defense in Arretium consists of a Praet and a Longbow.

IBT: JC suicides some stuff on our southern stack that's headed towards Cumae.

305:
Yasod and Hari both start macemen

JC adopts Pacifism and Ragnar makes nice with QSH

Bombard Arretium to 10% and lose a treb/jumbo at high odds (80+), everything else wins and the city is ours:

NCSG103.jpg



Cumae has two longbows and a pike, a little tougher, but not much.

IBT: Sulei offers Theology and 270 gold for Paper. I take it after some conisderation, I think we could use the coins, I can also broker Theology to QSH for more coins.
NCSG104.jpg

306:
Amsterdam: Mace -> University

Cumae has a castle in it, some bombarding is almost useless, however, I'm waiting on two more maces, so I do bombard one turn.

307:
Nagara Jayasri: Mace -> University (need to start thinking about the 6 for oxford).

Got the gladiator event for +2 :culture: in Wat's colloseum. That was a really nice break since it's under pressure from QSH.
NCSG105.jpg


Now I throw some suicide siege at Cumae and lose a fight, then back off for this turn, his defenders are nicely damaged.

308:
QSH wants to trade maps, I see no benfit here.
Isvara: Mace -> Mace

JC's defenders at Cumae are badly damaged. Catapult and Treb retreat, then I clean up and take the city.


309:
Thom starts university.
I set Rome and Ravenna for growth, fire all the artists, etc.

IBT: Ragnar demands that we go Buddhist. No thanks buddy.



310:
Rep. Parts in, no decision on the next tech (We could take Liberalism -> Rifling slingshot, but we could also probably get all the way to Assembly Line, Railroad, or Biology with Lib if we want it.)
Hari: Mace -> University
JC will only give us his map for peace. We can't really get to his last city right now, but I leave the decision for the group, obviously.

A closer look at the former Roman lands:

NCSG106.jpg


Here's the roster:
1. Krick19
2. Groogaroo
3. Schwartz -> played
4. S.ilver -> up next
5. Rex rgis of Ter -> on deck
6. Grandad
7. Bleys

And the save:
 

Attachments

We have some workers farming a wheat tile that's not in any city's fat cross, and we already have a wheat hooked up.

Okay thats my bad... I forgot we had wheat hooked up already. :smoke:

Nicley played taking down JC, So he has just his crappy island city left.

I happy to settle with rifles from lib, Lets not get to crazy.

Well played schwartz. :)
 
Good turns.

Those Roman lands look like they could become a real production power house with watermills. Throw in a couple of drydocks and we could be sending a strong invation fleet to crap all over Toku and Ragnar at some point in the future.

Rifling from lib sounds ok to me.

If we're going for a military win - which it looks like to me - then lets also think about cannons. With rifles and cannons we can probably nail a couple of AIs before they can put up a good defence. By then we should have infintary....

I would like to see us use a corp - one of my weak points - so creative or mining come to mind. I loved Madscientists use of creative mills in his Charlagmange RPC.
 
Got it, but will wait for some input again before proceeding.

Looks good. Land is nicely consolidated with less borders to defend right now. I'd say we should just take whatever we can get from JC and get peace, since we don't have boats nearby to go over and exterminate him. We're also suffering some WW, so that needs to go. He can rot on that island and waste his time building Praets with his Iron if he wants :lol:

Looking at the save, here are my immediate thoughts.

1) Military. Our civ is nearly twice the size of Qin's empire, yet he has almost as much military rating as we do. This is not a good thing, especially since a large amount of our military is made up of classical age units (read: archers/axes). We need to fix this problem ASAP, although with Rifling, our current assembly of units is obsolete, so we may just want to prepare for Rifling.

2) Costs. We are somehow having to pay unit cost even though our military is fairly weak. This is probably because of various tiny cities that aren't absorbing enough unit costs (which will hopefully fix itself).

Old Rome is busily building courthouses, so that should bring down costs. However, I'd like to discuss moving our capital to Ravenna. It's very central in our territory, at least central to the productive areas, and is right beside Angkor Thom, which is our biggest city and will continue to be, with all that food. Ravenna also has awesome commerce next to Yaso, since it's on a river with lots of prime terrain, so Bureaucracy would benefit it more than Yaso (since our current capital is built on marginal terrain, and doesn't have a river). Although I'd rather switch us into Free Speech in 6 turns for the culture boost.

3) Specialists. Run all artists all the time in our border cities, ESPECIALLY Angkor Wat, which is perilously close to getting its tiles screwed over by Xian (only 54% Khmer in tiles adjacent to Xian). Roman cities should also probably run artists for quick border pops (and displacing Roman culture so angry faces go away). Other cities can run scientists.

4) Techs. Rifling is the no brainer to grab from liberalism. Afterwards, I think we should grab nationalism and build the Taj, while going for Military Tradition. Qin is researching Compass right now, so we can trade him for it, and hope he goes for optics, trading him for that as well. We then research Astro on our own.

5) Burn the AP! Yeah, you heard me right. I think this needs to be our short term goal. Hence getting Astro, so we can build a fleet out of Yaso to go land in Ragnar's house and raze Nidaros to the ground. If we don't destroy the AP, we're going to find ourselves screwed into pissing off Sulei via wars or embargoes, just as we last found ourselves, or getting pissed off people from defying resolutions. If we use a Buddhist Missionary on Sulei instead to remove the war option, we then risk losing to a diplomatic victory because everyone will have Buddhism (currently Sulei is the only one without Buddhism). And before you ask, you can't defy the diplomatic victory.

So I think the best solution is to assemble a fleet at Yaso, load it with Riflemen and Cavalry, and send it off to raze Nidaros. If they try to use a "Stop War" resolution, we defy it, because the angry faces should go away if the AP is burned.
 
Good turns guys. We have a very powerful position now.
Noticed something funky! Our new Ice/Tundra city is building a monument!
LOL this was my fault, I forgot we are CRE! Its been a while since a played a CRE leader, and my normal move founding a new city pre-Lib is whipping or chopping a monument ASAP.

I like S.Ilvers plans, however I think we should look into getting the AP religion spread, to have enough votes to keep bad resolutions from passing. Heck, if we get enough votes, we can take control of it ourselves. Spreading Buddhism also opens up +2 hammer buildings, something that would help a lot. However, I realize we just may not have the time, since every city seems to need a few things now.

Qin makes me nervous though. He can DoW at pleased. We really need to get lots of Rifles, and we need to have a bunch of cash on hand to upgrade all Maces with CR2 or 3 to Rifles as well, since you cant get CR on a rifle any other way. Lets be sure to keep a decent garrison in those cities bordering him though. Suile makes me less nervous, he actually likes us, and is a decent sort of AI.

Once we get Rifles and Nationalism, though, we should push to take Qin out. His cities would make a nice addition to our empire, and then we can just tech in peace to space or turn our armies toward the west.

Cool game though, I am definitely up for another after this. Would like less players though, 4 or 5 seems better. I get antsy to play, and now I have my 2-machine set up (sort of, its a Rube Goldberg job right now, but its getting there) I want to try the report-while-playing method!
 
I'm all for another game after this one. I think we should play it on Prince at least, probably Monarch. We're so far ahead in this game it's not even funny, the AI definitely needs some help :lol:
Everyone here can handle Monarch anyway, especially in an SG.
 
Good thoughts S.ilver,

I'm actually leaning towards burning the AP, sounds good to me, I hate that thing :mad:! But whatever the consensus is we need to do something about, either spread buddism or raze the AP!

Not sure about the moving the palace, what about the forbidden palace in Ravenna, this will have a greater effect overall. If later in the game we take out Qin we still have the option of moving the palace.

The military situation is a bit tight with only archers in most of our cities, as long as Qin is still freindly it will be okay (Although S.ilver mentioned Pleased in his post so maybe this has changed).
 
The main reason I suggest burning the AP instead of holding it for ourselves is that we've done a lousy job of spreading religion around our empire in general. Our state religion is Judaism yet only 60% of our cities have Judaism in them, which is pretty lousy when all things are considered. We've not really prioritized religion in any sense. From our position right now, I will concede that UoS was a complete waste of hammers. Why? We have a total of TWO Jewish buildings (2 monasteries).

Bleys is right that every city we have needs to be doing something other than building religious stuff, because our priorities have been set that way. We're heavily building the beaker increasing and gold increasing buildings because we're running massed specs all over the place due to Representation. What we find ourselves in is a low production state. If you look at the demographics you'll see what I mean. Now, that picture should improve because we're running Caste System and littering the countryside with Workshops (and Watermills). But I feel such hammers would be better invested in a large military that we use to destroy the AP, rather than spamming our civ with Buddhism and trying to leverage it. We'd have to adopt Buddhism to ever get anywhere, and that would piss off both our neighbors, who are a much bigger military threat than the Buddhists.

Ok, I blabbed too much about the AP. In short, I want to raze it eventually (Mass Media is SOOO far away). But what I really want consensus on before I play is Ravenna. I suggested a capital relocation because the Palace is cheaper than the forbidden palace, but if we don't mind waiting a bit, the forbidden palace is fine too. I just want to confirm that before playing (otherwise this looks like builder/beefing up military turns).

EDIT: Regarding the next NCSG, we could run parallel games like other SG series do, where two teams play the same game. But since neither team can look in the opposite thread, we could also run two separate games.
 
Well the palace is cheaper than the forbidden palace but its not a huge difference. For me the advantage of moving the palace to ravenna is the fact that once built the forbidden palace can't be moved, so I guess I'm saying Palace in Ravenna not such a bad idea. Okay I'm just argueing with myself here! :crazyeye:

Lets see what the others think.

Also on the topic of the next NCSG, I'll be up for another go, I like the idea of a smaller roster seems to take ages for my turnset to come round, so I like the idea of two teams in seperate threads with about 4-5 players in each. difficulty level? maybe if we do run two threads we have the option of different difficulties, I'll be up for Monarch if we go that way as its an SG but I'm really a Prince level player (and I'm still finding that challenging).
 
At last after several weeks of disscussing moving the palace we look like its about to happen. Sury was on the phone earlyer and said "... Yaso sucks! Lets relocate to Ravenne."

As for more SGs yes please!!
 
1450AD (310):

Preflight check. First things first, dial up JC and get peace for his map.

Spoiler :
set4JCpeace.jpg


Ok. Going to do a quick skim of our empire to ensure everything is in working order.

Yaso is one turn from its maceman. It needs a couple of things after that, but I'll worry about that after.

Nargara fires a scientist in order to work a workshop, slashing time off its university. Huh... wait, why are we building a university here? Low commerce, and it can't afford to run many specs. It does have a lot of production potential though. Switch to a Baray, and put the free spec as an engineer.

Banteay switches the merchant to a scientist. It grows in one turn, so hammer problem will fix itself. I'll actually insert a Granary before the courthouse, to help out growth.

Raja is still working on its Baray. It is now needing a courthouse to combat 7.88 maintenance. Will bite the bullet and work the mine, despite stagnanting it, because we have decent pop here now.

The Hague has a citizens spec :smoke:. He gets hired as an engineer, and the merchant is fired and put to work on a mine. Decent production potential in this town.

Hari is working on a university and has 2 scientist specs. It also has the Kong Miao. Scientists become merchants, and the university build switches to a Grocer, for more concentrated wealth.

Amsterdam is in dire need of more farms, so it can take full advantage of its hammers. That's a worker job though. Otherwise, doing fine right now.

Isvar is AGAIN building units while having no infrastructure (3 buildings, a barracks, a granary, and a courthouse). It's also not set up properly because it has 4 cottages, 2 workshops, and 2 watermills. This city has plenty of food, and the river to beat, so I'm going to retool it as a production city. Scrap the maceman and put a 10 turn forge in (work the workshops instead of the immature cottages. Scientist and spy are fired in favour of artists to pop the border in 4 turns and get back some tiles hopefully. The worker outside that is building a farm on the river switches to building a watermill. The cottage worker switches to a workshop.

Antium is working on a 55 turn courthouse. Work the mine instead of the cottage and its down to 11 turns. Artist is hired, so we're good to go here.

Ravenna has a spy hired, switch it to a scientist. Forge will take 11, but it grows in 2, so it can work another mine or watermill. As the city grows, it will easily cut time on the palace. There's also a worker here chopping a forest in the FC, not sure what's up with that. Switch him to a lumbermill instead.

Rome pops a GP in 5 turns but mass GPP pollution makes it so there's no clear favourite. We could get a prophet, artist, or merchant, with an outside chance of getting a spy. Speaking of spies, fire the spy and hire a scientist.

Arretium is stagnant thanks to 2 hired artists, but that will pop its borders in 2 turns, giving us access to the clams, so I will leave it like this for now.

Mediolanum hires some artists.

Angkor Thom is polluting all over the place, and has a painful 22 turns on its university. Switch to the two workshops, and dial up a Baray in 7 turns. Painful to stall on the university, but the faster this thing grows, the more specs we can afford to hire.

Angkor Wat fires its scientists in exchange for two artists. I also insert a cheap monastery for the culture.

Cumae is still in revolt for 4 turns, so that makes looking after it easy :P.

Ok, that's it for our empire, let's look at foreign stuff.

Go back to Sulei and get the fur for gpt trade going again. 5gpt, so this is actually better than what we had before. Sulei is also annoyed so I gift him gems. Feel free to cancel it later.

Qin gives us 2gpt for gems, so go for it.

Toku and Ragnar have nothing to trade us, and I don't feel like giving resources for negligible gpt. Caesar is of course broke, and now he's Jewish! Which is funny because his remaining city has no religion.

1455AD (311):

First alert is that Qin has adopted Theocracy. Ok, that's nice.

Maceman is done at Yaso, so send him down to Banteay, so they won't be angry from the lack of garrison. Massed specs here are making nice science, but all science boosting buildings are done for now, so elect to finish off the courthouse that we started (since we're moving capitals soon).

I note all the signs around on forests that say "chop". I'm not sure what's up with these, since we are not rushing anything pressing at the moment. So workers sitting on those forests go do something more constructive.

1460AD (312):

Arretium gets its border pop, and immediately works the clams. Also, fire an artist and work the corn. Courthouse down to 22 turns. Ok.

1465AD (313):

Hmm... I knew I forgot to do something. Remove weighting for espionage from JC. Won't put EPs into Ragnar or Toku yet, as we haven't set our invasion plans yet.

1470AD (314):

Isvar gets a border pop, but it doesn't reclaim the forest. Oh well.

The Hague finishes with a maceman, which I fortify where he is. Look inside. Bad commerce all around, so don't need those buildings. Dial up a Baray, while we wait for rifling (2 turns from Lib).

Some chain farming is going on around Ravenna, so I take that opportunity to get some extra food to Antium.

1475AD (315):

I get the notice that the 10 turns of forced peace with Sulei are up. Immediately, Ragnar shows his ugly mug and demands that we declare war on the Ottomans.

Spoiler :
set4ragnar.jpg


Are you kidding me? LOL, what a fool.

We get a Great Prophet in Rome (St. Patrick).

Spoiler :
set4stpatrick.jpg


I immediately notice that the Hindu Special Building is not built, so I do that.

Spoiler :
set4hindubuilding.jpg


Gives us 13gpt, which, really sadly, is better than what we get from Confici.

1480AD (316):

Spoiler :
set4liberalism.jpg


And the free tech, as discussed.

Spoiler :
set4rifling.jpg


Dial up Nationalism. I thought about Chemistry first for workshop boost, but we want Taj (and we can drop the Hermitage in Angkor Wat).

The Baray finished in Thom. Unfortunately, it will once again pollute after it grows in 7 turns. Not much to be done about this though. University will finish in 11 turns.

The prompt pops up to say tha Free Speech is in (cheers!). Low upkeep civic which gives more culture and cash for towns. Sign me up! 2 turns of anarchy. Only 3 if we switch 2 civics but nothing else is worth switching to right now. 2 turns it is.

University done in Amsterdam, so dial up a Baray.

1485AD (317):

OMG WTH?

Spoiler :
set4qindouchebag.jpg


I swear this is stupid. We have (-) diplomacy modifiers with Qin BECAUSE we were forced into war with Sulei!!! And now he wants us to declare on him again! No!

He's still friendly, so good.

We get a free Hinduism spread to Isvar.

1490AD (318):

Out of Anarchy.

Hinduism spreads to Edirne, which is the Jewish holy city, so I assume Sulei did that himself.

I REMEMBER that I wanted to trade with Qin to get Compass (which I think he got 3 turns ago). He wants gold for Compass, but if I offer him paper, he gives compass, some cash, and his map (which will help when we invade him).

(Screenshot got lost somewhere, but it was 340 gold)

I also ask him what he thinks about Suleiman. He declares that he's pleased with him.

Spoiler :
set4qinpleased.jpg


So WTH? We refused to declare war on Sulei so we took a diplo hit. Would Qin give us a diplo hit for declaring war on his friend if we listened to him?

1495AD (319):

We get border pops at Cumae, Angkor Wat, and The Hague. The Hague's pop finally puts the crabs in our national water, so we should get a workboat out there ASAP.

Nagara's Baray finished, so its growth prospects look a bit better. Dial up a Rifleman! Because we can!

Mediolanum's courthouse finish, and it needs lots of things. It's at its happy cap, and still growing while employing 4 scientist specs. It also has pathetic production. Order up a forge. It will take 30 turns and Medio gets an angry person in 21 turns, so watch this city. I'm replacing the cottages with Workshops, so work those when they finish to speed to forge up.

Cumae came out of revolt some time ago, and I clearly didn't notice it. Go and slow down growth while speeding up the courthouse.

1500AD (320):

Sulei finished DR first, and Islam is founded in Bursa, which is incidentally right beside Antium. Dial up him to see if he'll trade DR, but he doesn't like us (he's annoyed). Cancel the gems and get 1gpt for one of our many corns.

Yaso's courthouse is done, and I realize it doesn't have a harbor and is at its health cap. Dial one up.


Post turn synopsis. Not much exciting stuff happening. It was a set of builder turns, yet I still managed to type all that junk. However, a quick look at the power graph shows that Qin is level with us this turn. Whether he's gearing up for an attack on us or not, I don't know. However, Sulei is annoyed with us. So we need more military, which I kind of neglected this turn (I suppose Amsterdam could've done without a Baray, but it's almost done).

Something you may find interesting is that neither Sulei or Qin have horses. Their lack of mounted units means that our siege engines would have a field day taking them apart.

JC has optics already. Normally, I'd say send a spy to steal the tech, but we need a caravel to send the spy! So we'll probably just have to trade Qin for it.

Mostly I optimized cities this turnset. With that in mind, our production cities are Isvarapura, Amsterdam, The Hague, Nagara Jayasri, Rome, Cumae, and Arretium.

Commerce cities are Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Antium, and Mediolanum. Mediolanum is also prime territory to plop down Maoi, with 15 water tiles in the FC.

Ravenna and Hari can bend either way when going commerce or production, and perhaps they should be hybrid cities.

Yaso is really no good for anything except specialists. No rivers, so commerce is down, and not enough food unless we farm everywhere (which we've done). So it obviously doesn't need to be our capital if it's a specialist haven.

ROSTER
1. Krick19
2. Groogaroo
3. Schwartz
4. S.ilver <- Just Played
5. Rex rgis of Ter ** UP NOW **
6. Grandad <- On Deck
7. Bleys
 

Attachments

Nice turnset S.ilver

I do get the feeling your a much more organised player than me, I can get a bit slapdash sometimes and just start building things for the sake of it! :crazyeye:


Mostly I optimized cities this turnset. With that in mind, our production cities are Isvarapura, Amsterdam, The Hague, Nagara Jayasri, Rome, Cumae, and Arretium.

Commerce cities are Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Antium, and Mediolanum. Mediolanum is also prime territory to plop down Maoi, with 15 water tiles in the FC.

Ravenna and Hari can bend either way when going commerce or production, and perhaps they should be hybrid cities.

Yaso is really no good for anything except specialists. No rivers, so commerce is down, and not enough food unless we farm everywhere (which we've done). So it obviously doesn't need to be our capital if it's a specialist haven.


This is good, I don't think weve discussed much about specialising cities since the start, I normally have a good idea in my own games but feel a bit lost sometimes when my turnset comes around as to what the plan is.

So I guess we keep building infastructure only where needed but start cranking out a some rifles, don't forget we have two settled GG at Rome and 1 at Amsterdam (I think it was there?).
 
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