Need help - Deity Pangaea

[gspchamp999]

Hey guys. I am struggling with Deity. Most games I feel like my mistakes come after 1 AD, so here is a 25 AD save of my current game. Attaching the 4000 BC start as well, in case anyone wants to try this map.

Spoiler :

This game in particular I cannot figure out where to go from here due to the lack of warmongers. Lib seems lost and I was only able to start one war. AI's are teching and trading like mad. If I tech straight to cuirassiers, I am not sure who I will be able to target, who to trade with on my way there, or if I can get there quick enough.

Let me know if you would like more of a summary on how I go to this point.

Thanks in advance for the responses.

 

[yyeah]

Spoiler :

Preety though oponents are on this map, Asoka and Mansa they are separately crazy good in tech race(lib race) but together well its just v hard to keep up with them. Somekind of 500BC Engi isnt sth weir for this crowd ,Zara and Liz allso great techers.
Lack of Marble and horses makes things even harder.
Beocuse well TGL would help a lot or HA rush i see you have horses well but you wont win lib thats for sure, if you have like 2 GS comming for 2 bulb Edu you could try but in this case no way iam preety sure.
What i think of this map is, taking out zara is key, hes "isolated" and taking control of this side of map is preety crucial, if you can cap him or take hes citeis (even better) that would put you in a preety good position.
You have a lot of forest to choop i dont know maybe engi ? trebs and maces could do it i think.
Its 25AD it isnt too late for Engi, trebs can be stopped by grenadiers or rifles so you havea time, i think i would put this 1 turn of in to Machinery and trade Paper for Theo and Machinery, then go for Engi and Zara. He have Engi but i think you are in position to take him out.

 

[gspchamp999]

@yyeah

Spoiler :

Thanks for the response.

I tried to go oracle, but Liz built it the turn I teched priesthood. Then I had to go without bronze working until I got to Aest. This put my expansion behind and Zara got to the horse spot 1 turn before me which is why I had to settle where I did. Then I saw room for at least six cities so I did not go for the HA rush.

I will attempt an engineering war

 

[Chase_2_Rabbits]

Spoiler :

Well, you've got a great capital; but that's about where it ends. Being stuck in the middle of a deity pangaea map is no joke. It's a good thing you're creative!

Without marble and without being PHI, winning Lib is going to be a tough task on this map with these AIs. Moreover: what are you going to take from Lib, and how is it going to help you win the game? Looking at your 25AD save, I can't work out how you're hoping to win the game?

I think an early rush is the only real option. HA rush will be quicker, but it does mean settling the horses which is going to be a poor city wherever you put it. There's such a total lack of available food to the south and west Construction and catapults/axes is more dependable, but slower.

I might give it a go. What was your early tech path?

 

[gspchamp999]

400 AD

Spoiler :

The AP cancelled the war between Mansa and Joao. Joao then demanded gold from me which I refused and as soon as the peace treaty was up, he now has a red fist. It is almost certainly on me. He does not have open borders with Mansa and I sent a chariot out to scout for his stack. Joao is way behind in tech anyway.

I traded Paper for Machinery and Theology. Teched engineering and traded it for philo and swapped into buddhism/theocracy. Liz libbed nationalism which Hammy already had.

1.) I have a couple of my new cities building Pikeman and Longbows. Should I have them do this or do I get forge/rax/buddhist buildings first? Or do I have them build mace/trebs as well?

2.) Do I still go after Zara and just fortify my border city to defend against Joao's weak troops? Do I go after Joao?

3.) Am I teching natl/military tradition? Or education/steel?

 

[gspchamp999]

@chase_2_rabbits:

Spoiler :

Mining - Ah - myst - med - ph (liz got oracle) - Wheel - writing - aest
Traded for Alpha - poly - bw - iw - pottery - sailing - math
Teched currency which most people ended up having.
Then compass and had a monopoly. Traded for - calander - monarchy - hbr and declared on Joao and bribed Mansa.

My initial exploring was to to North and East. I did not see Zara for a little while so I thought I had more time to expand West. I am not sure how I would have decided to HA rush given the good capital and what looked like enough room.

As far as how I am hoping to win the game...i've got no idea! I never win on Deity haha. I just try to get myself to a good position by 1 AD and improve my play every game. In this game, with the tech rate and love fest, and my set of skills I have no idea how to proceed forward, so I came to the forums.

Maybe my mistake is in the early game and not recognizing that there would be no wars and I should have decided to go to construction and fight?

 

[yyeah]

@gspchamp999

Spoiler :

Why i mentioned about early rush is becouse in my opinion WvO is nr1 ( not counting HC) guy in civ to do this kind of play (at least on diety).
Cre gives you option to bulb math, allso border pop in new cities witch can be usefull a lot faster where with Fin damn i dont know how to tell it, you dont fall behind that fast (in tech) and you can afford more.
So yea and liek i mentioned you have hard map i think with this aisand peace loving continent is just i dont know how to keep up in tech here rly TGL could be a option but no marble.
If you selfteched Engi you need just go full out with trebs and maces .

Btw post more ss next time not all pps wants to open save.

 

[gspchamp999]

I hadn't used ImageShack in quite some time and I logged in only to find out it is no longer free?

Is there a website I could use similar to the old ImageShack to link more screen shots?

 

[yyeah]

iam useing polish site i found this 1 http://ifotos.pl/ you need copy link
link do pliku
and insert image

 

[Chase_2_Rabbits]

@gspchamp999

Spoiler :

I was wondering how you lost the copper to Zara on your game, I see you were late to BW!

Having played the map myself through to 1AD though, I'm more impressed with your effort I had 7 cities (4 founded, 3 conquered from Zara) but it was tough going. My economy has pretty much stagnated to fund unit spam, meanwhile the rest of the map is going tech crazy. I'm kinda waiting for Mansa to give me a sympathy tech it's getting that bad

I might not be dead in the water, but I'm not sure I have the skills to ever catch up. I guess if I was going to carry on, I'd probably make peace with Zara for a couple of techs (just got his capital) and then try and pick up a couple of Liz's cities on my borders before my troops become obsolete.

I think it's a pretty tough map to be honest. We're surrounded and there's very little land that's good in the short-term nearby. I actually SIP because my fog-gazing showed me that the gems in your capital were jungle. The jungle to the North and the calendar resources make it really unappealing for early cities. I struggled to find 4 cities worth building. In the end I settled the horses 4th as there was some forest around to chop into catapults.

That said, I still think this map is winnable in the hands of an experienced Deity player. Hopefully one will drop into the thread...

 

[gspchamp999]

620 AD

Spoiler :

Joao has arrived.
Printing press in next turn with a monopoly.

Should I wait for Joao to slam his troops into mine or just take him out in the open field?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

For some reason, I woke up thinking about this map.
It's a shame it didn't get more attention. I've found it most interesting, although I had little success with it.

I played the opener 4-5 times already, following roughly the same lines (varying build orders) :

Spoiler :

Since this is Pangaea, I took the map as a training in early agression and practiced going Warrior first.
I could reliably steal a worker from Zara, whose chunk of land is large and awesome.
I couldn't, however, find a proper balance between settling, getting the necessary workforce and developing the military. The early requirements are very high between AH, Wheel, Mining and BW.
All in all, I've ended up suffering from Zara's counter attacks.

I've been most happily surprised, however, at the headstart one gets by growing Amsterdam on 3F tiles from turn 0.
Hmm... I think I'll have another run, now.

 

[gspchamp999]

Hey BIC! Glad you tried the map out. Would love to know if you found a way to crack it.

I personally gave up. Without a tech lead @ 620 AD, I stand no chance. I barely stand a chance @ 620 AD with a tech lead

Spoiler :

IIRC, Liz had 3-4 cities for quite some time in my game, and plenty of wonders. With previous map knowledge, she seems like a great medieval target. Not sure if the map would playout in this way in all iterations though.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

No, I couldn't.

Spoiler :

Ironically, the more I play this out, the worst I do. I think my best run was my first.
This happens a lot to me as I distract myself from the rule "safety first" and trim on the fat, in order to optimize expansion.

You know there's copper. I've been willing so far to wait for Axemen to help defend.
I'm not getting very many warriors either, and am maybe pushing too much to promote them (WWII). So they aren't in very good defensive positions.

I agree about Elizabeth, she sure looks like a fine early target.
She's a bit far away and there's desert in between, so she may not be the best early target (imo it's Zara, because the payoff is so huge - all the west is shared with him alone) but once the initial expansion phaze is done and borders are established, she might be the easiest picking.

I think you did alright in your run, though.
Early agression can yield the best payoff but is also the riskier route.
If going entirely peaceful, one thing you missed was due to early scouting. If you'd scouted Zara, you might also have scouted the corn + floodplains + stone site, which, I think, can be claimed by the player.
Securing that site (as city 2 or 3) would make a huge difference by :
a) denying Zara a lot of land ;
b) blocking that land for yourself - from that point, we might be looking at a 10 cities Empire, all peacefully settled.

There are city spots in the north with interesting resources but... most of them are a little awkward, aren't they ?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Well, I just proved myself wrong.
Slide show below, to 2000 BC :

Spoiler :

I abandoned the fantasy of going warrior first (grow to size 3, start on worker/settler), which :
a) is late on improvements if going worker @size 3 ;
b) is only justifiable if going settler @ size 3 ... I might have a rerun going that route, see what went wrong (it's been a while).

http://imgur.com/a/SDm08


The city count is a little low but 2 settlers can easily be produced in the next 10 turns to try and claim some land to the north, between Hammurabi and Elizabeth.
Worker count at 4, on the other hand, feels very good to chop & cottage.
Granaries have to be established.
The Hague can produce the first axemen.
All in all, it seems very acceptable to me.

Luck factor : 2 barb cities spawned in the south and denied Zara the corn + stone site.

 

[jihe]

For some reason, I woke up thinking about this map.
It's a shame it didn't get more attention. I've found it most interesting, although I had little success with it.

I played the opener 4-5 times already, following roughly the same lines (varying build orders) :

Spoiler :

Since this is Pangaea, I took the map as a training in early agression and practiced going Warrior first.
I could reliably steal a worker from Zara, whose chunk of land is large and awesome.
I couldn't, however, find a proper balance between settling, getting the necessary workforce and developing the military. The early requirements are very high between AH, Wheel, Mining and BW.
All in all, I've ended up suffering from Zara's counter attacks.

I've been most happily surprised, however, at the headstart one gets by growing Amsterdam on 3F tiles from turn 0.
Hmm... I think I'll have another run, now.

How can early science be a problem? You have both gem and gold in cap!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Well, I didn't mean we had no science output : just that I had trouble finding a proper balance, proper timings between research & expansion.

1st run I made, I blindly settled the cows to the north-east, using the settler to explore... Early trade routes were out of the question and workers had to travel accross the jungle to reach the cows...
Then when trying to go warrior first into settler @ size 3, it was tough again because the settler was out when the capital's 1st 3 tiles were barely improved.

So my build orders were in question, there, too
This why I talked about the balance.

The gems, otoh, I don't really consider a source of early commerce. They're jungled, aren't they ?
There is gold, and we're FIN, but still : we need many techs AND many worker turns to develop this land.

I didn't mean to imply this would be hard. Just that I didn't do well