Need Help for Diplo Win

[Hawk Chieftain]

I have a few Chieftain wins; Conquest, Domination, 20k, 100k Culture, but I haven't been able to win at Diplo. The times that I've tried, I've been able to get the U.N., but unable to win because of reputation. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong early, or later in the game. I really need help so I can move up a level.
I plan on playing turnsets, and hopefully have someone help steer me in the right direction.
First of all, what civs would give me the best chance of a diplo win?
What conditions; land size, age, etc. work best?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Nate128]

As a general rule, anytime you have a UN vote, bribe all the other civs. Give them enough to make sure they're at least polite.

 

[Queen of Swords]

I just won a diplomatic game on Emperor. A few turns before the UN was due to be complete, I gave uranium to one civ, Ecology to another, and signed a third up for a MPP where I paid 15 gpt. All three voted for me. Plus, I had a good reputation : even though I had wiped out two other civs, I hadn't done it when we had existing trades.

The civ I played was the French, but I've had a diplomatic victory with the Persians as well. I always try to build the UN, though. I wonder if it's more difficult to win if someone else builds the UN.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

When I played past Diplo games, I would get the U.N., and try to bribe the other civs, but I could never get their vote. And, I try not to do any ROP rape, or shortchange other civs when trading with them.
I have one vote for the French.
Does anyone else have a suggestion on a civ?

 

[Aabraxan]

Have you checked the War Academy?

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/diplovictory.php

 

[AutomatedTeller]

The key to diplomatic games is to be very careful about trading on credit. Don't make trades for tech or gold with luxes or resources, because a broken trading route (by barbs or someone declaring war on you) can kill your rep and piss people off.

If you don't have a great rep (everyone isn't gracious or at least polite), then figure out who your rival will be and pull everyone into a war with them.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Aabraxan- I have read the War Academy article on Diplo, and tried to follow those rules. But, I need help in a specific situation, so that's why I created this thread.

Since I've only gotten 1 suggestion on which civ to choose, I rolled some French starts.
The first one is Chieftain, 1.27PTW, Huge, everything else random.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

The second roll is Chieftain, 1.27 PTW, Large, everything else random:

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

The third roll is Chieftain, 1.27PTW, Standard, everything else random:

 

[Queen of Swords]

I like what you got for the second roll. There's a river, and a cow which your city can use when borders expand. Plus, there's the hut within range - you might get something good out of it when you build your first city. The other two starts are dry.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

On the 2nd roll, should I settle in place, or move NE on the hill?
Should my worker start working on the tile that is SE from where the settler is? Should I irrigate then road, or road then irrigate?

 

[Queen of Swords]

On the 2nd roll, should I settle in place, or move NE on the hill?
Should my worker start working on the tile that is SE from where the settler is? Should I irrigate then road, or road then irrigate?

Would you be able to use the cow if you moved NE? I think you'd be able to use it if you settled in place; it looks to me as though you'd still be on the river if you settled right where you stood.

Personally I'd get the worker to the cow to irrigate it and maximize your city's growth. I always build roads as I go along. After what, ten turns, your city's borders should expand, popping the hut and bringing the cow into use.

 

[pneuma]

figure out who your rival will be and pull everyone into a war with them.

AFAIK this works all the time, and the second spot is beautiful. Personally I wouldn't move, since this is cheiftain level. But if you must, go north. So far as I can tell, you won't get any useless coast tiles, and you'll only have to irrigate 1 tile between the cow and the river.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Here is my first turnset:
Turn 1 (4000BC)
Found Paris in place. Start Warrior (3 turns).
Send Worker NW
Start Writing (32 turns) at 100% Science
10 gold. 0gpt

Turn 2 (3950 BC)
Worker irrigates
10 gold, 0gpt

Turn 3 (3900 BC)
Same

Turn 4 (3850 BC)
Warrior done. Start another Warrior (3 turns)
Warrior E, see coastline
Worker NE to cow
10 gold, 0gpt

Turn 5 (3800 BC)
Warrior NE, see possible site of 2nd city
Worker irrigates cow

Turn 6 (3750 BC)
Paris now size 2, growth in 5 turns
Warrior built. Start another warrior (2 turns)
Rename warrior to Warrior # 2. Move S
Warrior # 1 move NE

Turn 7 (3700 BC)
Warrior # 2 pops goody hut, another Warrior. Renamed Warrior # 3
Warrior # 3 moves SE onto mountain, see another cow
Worker moves SW
Warrior # 1 moves N

Turn 8 (3650 BC)
Paris- Warrior<Warrior (2 turns)
Warrior # 2 moves SW
Warrior # 3 moves E
Warrior # 4 fortifies in Paris
Worker starts road NW of Paris
Warrior # 1 moves N, revealing top of continent
10 gold, -1gpt Writing in 25 turns

Turn 9 (3600 BC)
Warrior # 2 moves W
Warrior # 1 SW
Warrior # 3 E revealing 3 cows
9 gold, -1 gpt

Turn 10 (3550 BC)
Paris- Warrior<Settler (5 turns)
Warrior renamed Kinnick. Kinnick fortified in Paris
Worker moves 2 tiles SE next to river
Warrior # 2 W
Warrior # 3 S
Warrior # 1 W
8 gold, -2gpt.
Move Science to 60%. 8 gold, 0gpt
Writing in 31 turns

Turn 11 (3500 BC)
Paris expands to size 3, culture expands
Worker mines tile SE of Paris
Warrior # 2 W
Warrior # 1 NW
Warrior # 3 S

Turn 12 (3450 BC)
Warrior # 1 SW
Warrior # 2 NW
Warrior # 3 S

Turn 13 (3400 BC)
Warrior # 1 W see a Wheat
Warrior # 2 SE
Warrior # 3 W, see possible city site near 3 cows

Turn 14 (3350 BC)
Worker roads
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Settler NE
Warrior # 1 W
Warrior # 2 SE
Warrior # 3 SW onto mountain
8 gold, -2 gpt

Turn 15 (3300 BC)
Warrior # 3 S
Settler NE
Warrior # 1 NW
Warrior # 2 E
6 gold, -1 gpt

Turn 16 (3250 BC)
Warrior # 2 SE
Worker N
Settler NE
Warrior # 1 S
Warrior # 3 SE, we are on an island
5 gold, -1 gpt

Turn 17 (3200 BC)
Warrior # 3 S
Warrior # 2 SE
Worker mines tile NE of Paris
Settler NE
Warrior # 1 NE
4 gold, -1gpt

Turn 18 (3150 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Paris now size 1, growth in 3 turns
Settler NW, N
Warrior # 2 S
Warrior # 3 fortified
Orleans founded. Warrior started (3 turns)
Warrior # 1 E
3 gold, +2gpt

Turn 19 (3100 BC)
Warrior # 1 E
Settler N
Warrior # 2 S
5 gold, +2 gpt

Turn 20 (3050 BC)
Warrior # 2 S
Warrior # 1 fortified.
Lyons founded. Start Warrior (5 turns)
7 gold, +2 gpt
Writing in 16 turns

Here is a screenshot

 

[Queen of Swords]

Oh man, you have GOT to take advantage of those cows down there! (Perverted though that sounds). Looks like you could build next to the freshwater lake and get all the cows into your new city's radius. That city could be pumping out settlers like crazy.

By the way, I wouldn't have put Lyons so close to Paris - too much overlap. See that little jut of plains land with some forests on it? I'd have put Lyons on one of the plains tiles, still keeping the wheat within range.

Another city could go west of Paris, using the cow, the fish and the whale. You really have good food bonuses on this map. Since you've discovered you're on an island, getting off it will be a priority. With two coastal cities, you should be able to build galleys quickly once you discover Map Making; until then, you could produce a few extra settlers and warriors so that you can use the galleys as soon as they're made.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Here's my 2nd turnset:
Turn 21 (3000 BC)
Warrior # 1 W
Abandon Lyons, will move it W
Orleans- Warrior<The Pyramids (pre-build)
Warrior renamed Tate, fortified
9 gold, +3 gpt

Turn 22 (2950 BC)
Warrior # 1 W
12 gold, +3 gpt

Turn 23 (2900 BC)
Worker roads
Warrior # 1 fortifies

Turn 24 (2850 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Settler moves 2 tiles NW

Turn 25 (2800 BC)
Settler NW

Turn 26 (2750 BC)
Worker NE
Settler N

Turn 27 (2700 BC)
Worker roads
Settler W

Turn 28 (2650 BC)
Lyons founded. Start Barracks (20 turns)
27 gold, +4 gpt

Turn 29 (2600 BC)
Orleans now size 3, growth in 4 turns
Worker NE

Turn 30 (2590 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Worker roads
Settler SE 2 tiles

Turn 31 (2550 BC)
Settler SE

Turn 32 (2510 BC)
Worker NW
Settler SE

Turn 33 (2470 BC)
Worker roads
Settler SE

Turn 34 (2430 BC)
Writing done. Start Pottery (4 turns)
Settler SE

Turn 35 (2390 BC)
Worker W
Settler SE

Turn 36 (2350 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Orleans now size 4, switch to worker (1 turn)
Settler W
Worker roads
Tours founded near 3 cows & lake. Start The Pyramids (pre-build)

Turn 37 (2310 BC)
Orleans- Worker<Worker (3 turns)
Lyons- Barracks<Worker (2 turns)
Settler SW
Worker from Orleans moves W 2 tiles

Turn 38 (2270 BC)
Pottery done. Start Map Making (27 turns)
Increase Science to 80%, Map Making in 20 turns
Settler W
Worker roads
Worker # 2 W
Switch Orleans to Granary (14 turns)

Turn 39 (2230 BC)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (2 turns)
Worker # 1 roads
Worker # 2 W
Worker # 3 E from Lyons
Settler SW

Turn 40 (2190 BC)
Worker # 2 roads
Worker # 3 SE
Marseilles founded. Start Barracks (10 turns)
Worker # 1 NW
66 gold, +1 gpt
Map Making in 14 turns.

 

[Queen of Swords]

Are you going to build the Lighthouse once you get Map Making? If the Pyramids only puts a granary in every city on the continent, there's not much point in building it. Better to use it as a placeholder for the Lighthouse.

I take it your next city will go down there with the wheat and the fortified warrior? Another food-bonus location. Looking good so far.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

I am planning on building The Great Lighthouse in Orleans when Map Making is done. It's the least corrupt city outside of Paris, & should be size 5 or 6 by the time Map Making is mine. Then I'm going to build galleys, warriors, & settlers to expand.

 

[Queen of Swords]

Why not build a galley or two anyway while the GL is being constructed? Send them around the coastal waters where it's safe - you might find that the coast extends a little where another continent is close to yours, and you would be able to make contact/colonize that much quicker. If you don't find any safe waters, you could wait.

 

[Hawk Chieftain]

Turn 41 (2150 BC)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Workers road on Wheat E on Lyons

Turn 42 (2110 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Move Settler S
Workers turn S
Move Science to 100%, Map Making in 11 turns
68 gold, -1 gpt

Turn 43 (2070 BC)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Settler S

Turn 44 (2030 BC)
Workers in 2 stacks, road on cow & next to cow
Settler S

Turn 45 (1990 BC)
Chartres founded. Start on Granary (15 turns)
Worker stack # 1 SW
Worker stack # 2 SE

Turn 46 (1950 BC)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Workers road

Turn 47 (1910 BC)
Worker stack # 1 SW towards Marseilles
Worker from Lyons joins worker stack # 2

Turn 48 (1870 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Orleans now size 6, Granary in 2 turns
Settler SE, then S toward fortified Warrior
Worker stack # 2 NE
Worker stack # 1 roads

IBT- Orleans riots, buy a clown
Raise luxury to 20%, Science at 80%
Map Making in 2 turns
Marseilles- Barracks<Granary (10 turns)

Turn 49 (1830 BC)
Worker stack # 1 SW next to Marseilles
Worker stack # 2 irrigates near Orleans
Settler S

IBT- Tours riots, buy a taxman
Switch Tours to Warrior, it needs a garrison

Turn 50 (1790 BC)
Worker stack # 2 crosses river near Orleans
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Worker stack # 1 S
Settler S

IBT- Lower Science to 70%, Map Making still in 1 turn
59 gold, +1gpt
Map Making done. Start Code Of Laws.
Move Science to 100%, Code Of Laws in 9 turns
60 gold, -1gpt

Turn 51(1750 BC)
Order restored in Tours.
Tours- Warrior<Galley (5 turns), Warrior fortified
Worker stack # 2 irrigates
Settler S

IBT- Orleans- Granary<The Great Lighthouse (75 turns)

Turn 52 (1725 BC)
Worker stack # 2 NE on forest
Worker stack # 1 NW
Settler S

Turn 53 (1700 BC)
Worker stack # 2 start to chop forest near Orleans
Worker stack # 1 roads
Founded Avignon. Start Granary (30 turns)
Move Warrior # 2 fortified in Avignon

Turn 54 (1675 BC)
Paris- Settler<Settler (8 turns)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Worker stack # 1 SE onto cow
Settler SE, then E

Turn 55 (1650 BC)
Settler E
Worker stack # 1 roads on cow

Turn 56 (1625 BC)
Tours- Galley<Granary (10 turns)
Galley moves N around island
Worker stack # 2 clear forest, irrigate

IBT- Marseilles riots, buy a taxman

Turn 57 (1600 BC)
Worker stack # 1 roads
Worker stack # 3 roads N of Chartres
Besancon founded. Start Warrior (5 turns)
Worker stack # 2 crosses river

IBT- Code Of Laws done. Start Philosophy (4 turns)
Lyons- Worker<Worker (5 turns)
Marseilles- Granary<Warrior (2 turns)
Chartres- Granary<Warrior (2 turns)

Turn 58 (1575 BC)
Worker stack # 3 move E of Chartres
Worker stack # 1 SE 2 tiles
Galley now N of Orleans, still no sight of another civ
48 gold, -3gpt

Turn 59 (1550 BC)
Worker stack # 2 roads
Worker stack # 3 roads
Worker stack # 1 roads

Turn 60 (1525 BC)
Paris- Settler<Granary (15 turns)
Marseilles- Warrior<Galley (4 turns)
Chartres- Warrior<Galley (5 turns)
Settler S 3 tiles to Chartres
Worker stack # 1 roads
Worker stack # 2 irrigates
Galley now N of Lyons
42 gold, -3 gpt
Philosophy in 2 turns
The Great Lighthouse in 67 turns