Need help on Emperor(scientifically)

[invector]

Hi guys.

I had known and was a regular user of this forum, and I recently started playing CIV 3 again. I had no problem winning with Ottomans in Regent Huge Map all random civs(conquest), and little problem winning with French in Monarch Huge Map all random civs(diplomatic). I wanted to try what Emperor is like.

I want either a conquest or a domination victory, so I made the game unwinnable by other means. Map is 60% water continents, barbarians are sedentary.

I'm the leading scientist, I'm currently researching Military Tradition to get Cavalry, and I haven't researched Physics(Magnetism, Theory of Gravity) Navigation, and Democracy(Free Artistry).

Question is, what should I go for when I reach The Industrial Age? I love railroads and my empire is very large so mobility is an issue, I have like 3 cities that reached 12 pop so nearly no hospitals are needed, and I need to reach Communism as soon as possible, I can't stand the militaristic limitations of Republic, also the stinking war weariness.

If you can give me what should I aim for(like Communism -> Railroads -> Scientific Method -> Replaceable Parts -> Motorized Transportation) I would appreciate.

Btw, I usually sell my fresh researched advances to Germany or Hittites, for loads of money(and sometimes for techs like Printing Press).

Last word: I'm in between Japan(militaristic and religious), Germany(militaristic and scientific), China(militaristic and industrious), Aztecs(militaristic and agricultural) and Babylon(religious and scientific), and all civs are in war with Japan, also Aztecs are in war with Germans. Most powerful army is Aztec btw.

I would appreciate any help besides what I asked for too. This is my first time I play above Monarch seriously.

Thanks!

tl;dr: What should I research first when I reach industrial age?

 

[vmxa]

I would ignore all the optional techs in your current age, such as Nav and those going to Free Art.

First tech would be Steam for me in nearly every game. No interest in hospitals, especially as it is another optional tech.

Not going to research Commie as it has 2 issues: optional and anarchy.

WW is not much of an issue to me at Emperor and I have stayed in Republic and at war many times. You need two things. 1) get more cities for unit support 2) more lux. A third item is to not losing lots of troops, which is very easy as most of the figthing should be with armies.

I like Steam and beeline to RP. Get some infantry for defense and some artie for invasion proofing my land. Then I can go for Sci Meth. I may do Industrial first, if it looks like I am out in front on the tech as I should be by that time.

If the tech sales are to weak and smallish nations, go ahead. If they are not that small I would stop selling them as that just pushes everyone that much closer to better units.

 

[invector]

I would ignore all the optional techs in your current age, such as Nav and those going to Free Art.

First tech would be Steam for me in nearly every game. No interest in hospitals, especially as it is another optional tech.

Not going to research Commie as it has 2 issues: optional and anarchy.

WW is not much of an issue to me at Emperor and I have stayed in Republic and at war many times. You need two things. 1) get more cities for unit support 2) more lux. A third item is to not losing lots of troops, which is very easy as most of the figthing should be with armies.

I like Steam and beeline to RP. Get some infantry for defense and some artie for invasion proofing my land. Then I can go for Sci Meth. I may do Industrial first, if it looks like I am out in front on the tech as I should be by that time.

If the tech sales are to weak and smallish nations, go ahead. If they are not that small I would stop selling them as that just pushes everyone that much closer to better units.

Steam is just unvaluable, as it allows railroads, yeah. I guess I will shoot for Steam Power->Communism->Replaceable Parts->Electronics.

My map:

 

[vmxa]

I do not see why you insist upon Commie. It will take turns to learn. Turns that would get you more immediately useful techs. It will require at least a 6 turn anarchy and likely 8 turns. Right at the point where you cannot afford to go stagnant.

It wil not be of any great use, until you get bigger and have the structures that it likes such a police stations and the small wonder. Shields best used to take down others towns.

Now, if you had all your continent you could probably get back something for all the effort used to get communism up and running, but you don't.

Post a save and lets see what is going on.

 

[invector]

1) I'm sick of war weariness
2) I can't properly train troops because of the support limitations
3) I want to lower the corruption
4) You are right

Here's my savegame.

 

[vmxa]

First I had forgotten you were still not in IA. That means two optional techs for Commie, a great big no way for me. I never research it, even if I get Nat for a free tech as a sci nation.

Second looking at the empire right now, if you could istantly switch to commie it would look like this:

Rep income 1317, sci 735, +245gpt ent 146 maint 139 (same for all)
Commie 831, 468, 219, 95
Monarch 836, 472, 214, 96

I do not see the upside for commie, may as well go monarchy and you have it now. The biggest two killers for commie is that you cannot cash rush. A real issue in newly captured or planted frontline towns.

It spreads the corruption. This means I get lots of medium quality towns and eventually lower the best towns. Corruption is not a concern of mine in C3C. I just make farms out of corrupt towns and take the science they give.

You are not at war now so WW is dropping. I would prefer to get all the land to your north taken over and clear the japs from the SE. Then I can focus on one nation till it is off the land.

Get a third luxs of your own and have markets in the better cities.

 

[vmxa]

Now as to where you are right now. Well I really hate having RoP's and even more when I have several nations near me. Just asking for grief sooner or later.

I would not build cathedrals or coloseums. They are too expensive to build and maintain. What is that about 280 shields, I forget. Anyway enough to have made units to take down some of those weak neighbors long ago.

You are making coloseums that cost 120 and give 2 content and cost 2 maint. A market cost 100 and with 3 luxs gives 4 content and maint 1.

The real killer you mentioned, from you perspective, was WW. Well I submit that had you mae the HE and the MA and either gotten a 3rd army from a leader or built it you would have won those wars sooner and had a lot less WW to deal with.

I also would not advise selling salt to anyone, even if I had tanks. Cavs can cause grief. They can swoop in and steal workers. They can sack undefended towns. They can come from a long ways off and kill that redlined unit. I don't need the money that badly.

I would bet that had you gotten markets up and made some use of specialist you would have gotten at least one or two additional techs by now. You could shave a turn off here with a market in two more towns and running 100%.

Getting a 3rd army is top priority for me as I want the pentagon as soon as I can get it. MA+Pentagon = lights out. HE means getting more chances for promotions, means more leaders.

I would probably switch Smiths and let someone else build it for me. Actually I don't want it as I am not going to make banks anyway. I am going to kill everyone. I tend to avoid researching optional tech, unless they have key things like Cavs and MA.

Trading 2 lux to someone is not my style either, unless they are very weak. It just helps them too much. I know they would not give you a lux, unless you pay. Just take it from them they are close to you and have to go any how.

A knight and cav army will just rip them along with a handdful of cavs.

 

[invector]

Thanks, that helped a lot.

I'm starting to understand that markets are the key for success, as it pumps up both happiness and income. I need an instruction on how to make good use of specialists though, my guess is this: irrigate everywhere around the city that won't be producing anything, pump up food, make specialists to +3 gpt for research.

After battling with Japanese with Aztecs Germans Babylonians and Chinese on my side, I had taken all jap cities except the 7 cities below, the Chinese took 5 of them, Japs are left with 2 cities(Nagoya and Satsuma).

However, Germany made truce with Aztecs, and they immediately declared war against me. At that time they had both Military Tradition and Nationalism so they were kicking my ass, I had to buy Nationalism from Persia to get head-to-head. Paid 600 gpt, sold it to Persia's enemies to get back 300 gpt, though it still hurt a lot.

I have Steam Power and no one has it right now, and I'm not trading it away, and I made my primary target replaceable parts. I have 2 coals(one in Japanese part, one near German border), seems there is only 1 more coal in our continent, and its in rubbish Aztec land(west) they have 2 slaves there, it will take forever for them to research steam and make a road there.

I'm building Cavalry from nearly every city to fight the Germans. I have conquered Siazburg Heidelburg and Tula, trying to get Ixtapaluca and Cologne(Cologne being the primary). My both armies are at Heidelburg, as I'm trying to get my hands on the silks(through Hamburg). WW is crazy right now, with 8 luxuries in stockpile and 30% at happiness slider. I'll stop the war when my agreements with other nations against Germans expire.

 

[invector]

Also, for some reason I like Smith's a lot, it pays maintenences of Harbors Markets Banks etc, its like +50 or +60 gpt.

 

[vmxa]

Also, for some reason I like Smith's a lot, it pays maintenences of Harbors Markets Banks etc, its like +50 or +60 gpt.

Lots to like about them, but you are going to need to get more land. That means wars. The ways to keep WW from being an issue in Republic is to up happiness and make wars short.

The way to make wars short is to have armies or at least lots of strong attackers. So the shields spent on Smith's could be making the MA.

Right now you do not have many markets and probably no banks. If you have many harbors sell them now. Harbors are not needed for much. I slap one up to allow empire towns to reach the capitol, if on other land masses.

In a few cases in a town to allow it to feed itself, that is rarely a good idea. I don't use them to get vet ships as I do not care about vet ships.

Granted at Emperor I could take liberties, unless playing AW. I mostly make transporting boats and no need for a harbor. If I have bonus water tiles and it is a city, not town and I am very strong I may put up a harbor. Else I save the shields for better things and the maint.

Banks I willmake as I get the chance and like all multipler structures I am not going to put them up every place. IN any event that can come later and I will have Smith's when I get to the guy that built it.

 

[invector]

Japan just made their first leader in front of my face, killing off a longbowmen with redline who killed my veteran rifleman previous turn. They are no longer a threat, luckily.

Destroyed Ixtapaluca, captured Cologne. Aztecs gave up fighting with Babylonians and got in fight with Germans. They are killing the medieval infantry of Germany There are like 9 nations who are in war with Aztecs though, so I expect naval invasions on Aztec land, and I think they might lose some cities, I fear if I make peace with Germans, they'll finish off Aztecs. Though for now, my military advicer says I'm tied with Aztecs and stronger than Germans in military, but soon I'm getting replaceable parts...

I cancelled most of my trade agreements, made new ones(before I was giving away lux + gpt for lux, now I'm giving away 50 turns old techs for lux), still have 8 luxes.





I have conquered most of Germany, only 5 cities(Sapporo Bonn Leipzig Koninsberg New Berlin) remain.

I produced another army and currently building The Pentagon in Salamanca. Building railroads everywhere, priorities are tiles next to my best cities and roads between the cities that produce units.

 

[vmxa]

Yes irrigate all the tiles you will work in towns that are corrupt or will not produce troops unless they are strong cities and have lib/uni's. Take a close look at towns with libs to see if they need it or would be better with irrigation and scientist.

This is most useful once you can put down rails on those tiles. So as you irrigate count the food based on having a rail, if you can get one in a reasonable time. I mean if you are not going to be able to rail for 50 turns count with no rail.

What you see is that a size 7 town has a lib and is fairly corrupt. It make 5 beakers maybe 6 or 7. It is working 7 tiles and +1 food. You irrgate a grass that had a mine or nothing. It is now +2. Slap one of the citizens up as a scientist. If you can rail that tile it puts you back at +1 or +2 depending on what tile you stopped working.

Maybe you can now put a second scientist up and so on. If you can get to 4 tiles making 4 food each you can feed 9 pop. The lib may no longer be paying for itself and you can sell it. A city with a food bonus could get to size 24 and only need 5 worked tiles. 7x3 for 21 beakers and corruption does not affect them.

This town is pretty much happy free without a market as most of the town are specialist. Note if you get to the modern age Labs are not worth a thing in a town that does not have a uni. So do not built them in those places.

 

[vmxa]

Sounds like you are rolling now. with a market in the right cities and flipping other to specialist you will be able to go on fighting. Just do not lose many units as that piles on WW. Avoid taking down units that will leave your unit exposed as much as you can.

Cover damaged units, if you need to and try to not leave units in foriegn soil for long.

 

[invector]

Berlin flipped to Germany...

Declared war against Germany again.





Now I want to improve my land with workers and stay away from war for a while, until I get tanks.

 

[vmxa]

If you are still having unit support cost problems, spam out tightly pack towns. I see tundra. I like to fill that with ICS towns and just take the starting citizen and make them a scientist and the place never grows (unless your are AG) and gives 3 beakers per turn and increases unit support.

 

[invector]

If you are still having unit support cost problems, spam out tightly pack towns. I see tundra. I like to fill that with ICS towns and just take the starting citizen and make them a scientist and the place never grows (unless your are AG) and gives 3 beakers per turn and increases unit support.

Probably the best advice you have given me. I will do that.

 

[Raliuven]

Right now you do not have many markets and probably no banks. If you have many harbors sell them now. Harbors are not needed for much. I slap one up to allow empire towns to reach the capitol, if on other land masses.

In a few cases in a town to allow it to feed itself, that is rarely a good idea. I don't use them to get vet ships as I do not care about vet ships.

Granted at Emperor I could take liberties, unless playing AW. I mostly make transporting boats and no need for a harbor. If I have bonus water tiles and it is a city, not town and I am very strong I may put up a harbor. Else I save the shields for better things and the maint.

vmxa - quick question about this. I sometimes (often?) have coastal cities that don't have much property to themselves on land. To make up for this, I build a harbor to gather up the money for working the coastal tiles. If the city grows to a decent size, it will recoup the cost of the harbor (in terms of maintenance) and give a little extra (if it is not too corrupt). I wouldn't build an aqua there, but if it is on fresh water or a river and can grow, can this be a good cash cow? Or is it just plain not worth the shield investment? Or just plain don't bother settling the harbor city? I'm always trying to fit that one or two more cities onto the map . . .

 

[invector]

 

[vmxa]

vmxa - quick question about this. I sometimes (often?) have coastal cities that don't have much property to themselves on land. To make up for this, I build a harbor to gather up the money for working the coastal tiles. If the city grows to a decent size, it will recoup the cost of the harbor (in terms of maintenance) and give a little extra (if it is not too corrupt). I wouldn't build an aqua there, but if it is on fresh water or a river and can grow, can this be a good cash cow? Or is it just plain not worth the shield investment? Or just plain don't bother settling the harbor city? I'm always trying to fit that one or two more cities onto the map . . .

The points I made were for what was going on in that game. Some of them do pertain to all games IMO, such as tundra towns. What you tend to see is players making harbors in towns that will not be making money and should be left to stagnate.

All towns are worth having as they provide at least unit support, unless in Demo. If corrupt then no harbor, again unless there is a real need (connect to capitol). Just put the start citizen to specialist and be happy.

To me I am not making harbors for any but the one or two cities that are mostly land and are not size 8 or 9 and with a harbor can get to 12. These have lib/markets and maybe other multipliers and will pay with ease.

Even some of the others are probably viable, but I don't want to bother with them, unless they can make troops.

A town that will not be more than size 6 and that is with a harbor, I am not going to bother. If you are in Republic then it is profitable to work coastal tiles. That does not mean I need a harbor.

Say I have a town with 3 hills and no grass tile and mountains for the rest of the land tiles. It has 3 coastal tiles. You could change hills for mountains as they are only 1 food and it would not matter as you could not work them all anyway.

We then have no tiles that could sustain a citizen, other than the city center. If we then make a harbor and can work those 3 coastal tiles as they can feed the citizen.
9 gold - coruption, say 50% rounded down 4 add to the CC gold. 4 - 1 for maint nets 3 gold. Do I care not, really.

Why don't I save the MM and just put the 1 pop to science, take my 3 beakers and not spend 60 turns making a harbor. If you increase for having more tiles or less corruption or a free aqua from a river.

Typically harbors are going up in less than optimal towns that I just do not need to spend the time and effort. Often they will have 1 grass tile that I can come back to later and rail and now gain extra specialist. That I care about as they are free beakers.

The main thing is that all towns and all structures have to be evaluated for value. The value could be non intrinsic, say a barracks/wall in a town about to get attacked.

 

[invector]

Enough for today. I'm getting huge-map-sick though.

Zulu has impi for defence Tomorrow its them, Egypt, and Spain, at least.

I made mutual prot pact and RoP with Persia, the most advanced nation(they're even better than me) sold Mass Production, bought gpt and scientific method. Since my capital is the best city in the world, I'll be the first one to complete the wonder, thus gaining 2 new techs, which are probably going to be atomic theory and electronics, to get hoover dam.

Greece has two rubbers, and they're trading one with Persia, which makes me moist, I want to sell rubber to Persia, but anyway, Egypt, America and England don't have rubber, and the only rubber source besides Greece's leftover are controlled by me, so I'll probably invade America or England after those 3 weaklings.